No right wing alternative= No alternative

pjohnson

Idbatterim wrote: »

It certainly doesn’t. But it’s lsughabke isn’t it. Many of us up to our tits in debt , get a pay rise , fifty percent of it gone. Spent on the likes of the luxury apartments in Dundrum , that he couldn’t afford and can you afford three thousand a month for some of them ? Doubt it. But here you are defending it ...

Where am I defending it?

I just love how you supposedly think the current bunch are awful. Yet you are the biggest cheerleader for keeping the current lot in power :pac:

rossie1977

FG haven't increased dole. It was ~€203 a week in 2009 and €203 right now. There was over 300,000 on the dole in 2012, about 120,000 now.

Majority of welfare spending in this country approx €13 billion is spent on pensions and carers/invalidity.

It doesn't matter if in the decades to come the government manage to get everyone off the dole the welfare budget will still explode. There are about 700,000 over 65 in Ireland right now. That will become more than 1.6 million by 2050..

That group will become the most important over next two decades. No government will be able to ignore them because they vote in bigger numbers than any other group. Not only massive increase in welfare spending but infrastructure too like hospitals, care homes, far more doctors/nurses/ambulances needed.

If anyone here claims they will turn down the public pensions, free travel pass, medical card, free electricity units when they turn 65 I won't believe it for one second.

Iscreamkone

rossie1977 wrote: »

FG haven't increased dole. It was ~€203 a week in 2009 and €203 right now. There was over 300,000 on the dole in 2012, about 120,000 now.

Majority of welfare spending in this country approx €13 billion is spent on pensions and carers/invalidity.

It doesn't matter if in the decades to come the government manage to get everyone off the dole the welfare budget will still explode. There are about 700,000 over 65 in Ireland right now. That will become more than 1.6 million by 2050..

That group will become the most important over next two decades. No government will be able to ignore them because they vote in bigger numbers than any other group. Not only massive increase in welfare spending but infrastructure too like hospitals, care homes, far more doctors/nurses/ambulances needed.

If anyone here claims they will turn down the public pensions, free travel pass, medical card, free electricity units when they turn 65 I won't believe it for one second.

Where will the magic money come from that will pay for all this?
Leftie economics again

Imreoir2

marieholmfan wrote: »

No queens

I think you will find a few Queens around the place still, try PantiBar on a Friday night. :pac:

Iscreamkone

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Where will the magic money come from that will pay for all this?
Leftie economics again

I believe the magic money you are referring to is called corporation tax. Time to start asking these TRILLION dollar companies to start contributing to Irish society.

Mad_maxx

rossie1977 wrote: »

FG haven't increased dole. It was ~€203 a week in 2009 and €203 right now. There was over 300,000 on the dole in 2012, about 120,000 now.

Majority of welfare spending in this country approx €13 billion is spent on pensions and carers/invalidity.

It doesn't matter if in the decades to come the government manage to get everyone off the dole the welfare budget will still explode. There are about 700,000 over 65 in Ireland right now. That will become more than 1.6 million by 2050..

That group will become the most important over next two decades. No government will be able to ignore them because they vote in bigger numbers than any other group. Not only massive increase in welfare spending but infrastructure too like hospitals, care homes, far more doctors/nurses/ambulances needed.

If anyone here claims they will turn down the public pensions, free travel pass, medical card, free electricity units when they turn 65 I won't believe it for one second.

The elderly dole ( state pension) is far too high

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe the magic money you are referring to is called corporation tax. Time to start asking these TRILLION dollar companies to start contributing to Irish society.

They have no obligation to stay here, they are our one golden goose

Iscreamkone

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I believe the magic money you are referring to is called corporation tax. Time to start asking these TRILLION dollar companies to start contributing to Irish society.

I don’t think our opinions on how the country should be run are the same.
I won’t be voting for your leftie friends/policies

Iscreamkone

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I don’t think our opinions on how the country should be run are the same.
I won’t be voting for your leftie friends/policies

Erm... I'm not a leftie. Not everything is black and white. I am in favour of opening the debate on immigration controls which apparently puts.me in the right wing nazi scum category not the loony left. But that doesn't mean to have that opinion I automatically have to take on all the other "right wing" opinions.

Left or right I dont see how it matters. The fact that trillion dollar companies and operate and profit in ireland and do not have to contribute financially to Irish society is an absolute crime. Especially so when you look at the state in the country is in right now. Its abuse of power. Abuse of Irish society. And I dont believe for a second they will down tools and leave if being forced to pay taxes. Besides, what percentage of their workers are immigrants? So the immigrants will need to leave with them. Less stress on the rental and housing markets. Less stress on our infrastructure and services.

Tax the bsstards ffs.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They have no obligation to stay here, they are our one golden goose

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

The elderly dole ( state pension) is far too high

Planning to stay employed, forever?

Deleted User wrote:

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

To be fair, they do actually pay something, but it would be nice if they started by paying the full amount they're suppose to, and I do think this should be partly paid in stocks and shares, and placed into a sovereign wealth fund

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Planning to stay employed, forever?




To be fair, they do actually pay something, but it would be nice if they started by paying the full amount they're suppose to, and I do think this should be partly paid in stocks and shares, and placed into a sovereign wealth fund

Private pension

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

Private pension

What if it collapses? What if some cannot afford one?

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

Our success in becoming the European HQ for many of the world's largest companies is our greatest economic achievement, without this, we are nothing special, there is no good reason why this country should be as wealthy as it is

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Our success in becoming the European HQ for many of the world's largest companies is our greatest economic achievement, without this, we are nothing special, there is no good reason why this country should be as wealthy as it is

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

Most of them do.

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

Most of them do.

Nice one, it's all good so. :-/

whippet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

Brian?

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Keep up he's been mentioned and also mentioned that he's not really left so to speak even left a left party due to his views!.

I'm talking lefty party members

Socialist Party
Sinn Fein
People Before Profit
Rise
Solidarity
Labour
Anti Austerity Alliance
Socialist Workers party
Workers Party
Communist party


Still waiting on the poster who said you can be left and pro life to offer one example of a politician this way in Ireland!.

Give over with your "pro life" nonsense. People who are pro choice aren't anti life. We just believe women should have the right to choose. I am pro life, I would do everything in my power to convince someone I know not to have an abortion. But I don't believe in legislating woman's right to choose.

There was a time when right wing/conservative people believed in minimal government intervention in people's lives.

Brian?

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Well we agree to disagree so.

I don't see them as left, they admit to being conservative and social democrats. Two things alien to the left.

You don't think Social Democrats are left wing? With all dues respect, I honestly don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

Wanderer78

whippet wrote:

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

There's no question our favorable corporate tax regime has done incredible things for our country, but the bulk of taxation cannot keep falling on the shoulders of our citizen's, it's unsustainable, we re in desperate need of more, and we, the citizens cannot keep doing this. Wealth accumulation by corporations is becoming dangerous, this is a global problem, expect changes here soon, we should prepare for it now, and I truly do believe partly payment of taxes should be paid in stocks and shares is probably the best way forward

whippet

whippet wrote: »

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

that's far to simple a narrative.

do you know what portion of jobs in Google, FaceBook, Apple, MS etc are filled by people who are not already living in ireland?

These are generally middle to high earning jobs of which carry income tax burden in the higher brackets - these people have higher than normal disposable income which in turn is spent in the local economy with all the associated economic benefits.

The docks in dublin would still be a waste land if it wasn't for these companies.

Another knock on effect of these jobs is the requirement for 3rd level educational facilities to supply graduates.

I have a couple of siblings who are senior software and networking engineers working with these multinationals - The would have to leave ireland to work if they didn't have a presence here. These are high six figure jobs with all the associated PAYE taxes etc.

So I can't subscribe to the narrative that they offer nothing to ireland.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

Do you know what % or are you just assuming ?

Our corporate tax take is in the region of €7bn per annum. While I accept that the global corporation tax and revenue transfer system is murky - there is no position where by the Irish state could ever argue that the profits made by these companies are based on revenue in ireland on business done in ireland.

If we were to tax these irish made / irish realised profits the actual corporate tax take would probably be the same and they would pay similar taxes in other EU states all the while having no good reason to invest as much as they do in ireland,

whippet

whippet wrote: »

that's far to simple a narrative.

do you know what portion of jobs in Google, FaceBook, Apple, MS etc are filled by people who are not already living in ireland?

These are generally middle to high earning jobs of which carry income tax burden in the higher brackets - these people have higher than normal disposable income which in turn is spent in the local economy with all the associated economic benefits.

The docks in dublin would still be a waste land if it wasn't for these companies.

Another knock on effect of these jobs is the requirement for 3rd level educational facilities to supply graduates.

I have a couple of siblings who are senior software and networking engineers working with these multinationals - The would have to leave ireland to work if they didn't have a presence here. These are high six figure jobs with all the associated PAYE taxes etc.

So I can't subscribe to the narrative that they offer nothing to ireland.

Your salary is payment for services rendered. You've already provide your skills, expertise and experience to the company with the outcome of increasing their profits. That's a separate thing to a company paying their taxes and contributing to society. They need to pay taxes for the priveledge of operating in ireland. To suggest they wouldn't be here if we do that. were just a nation of fools that has nothing to offer is exactly what they want you to think.

We have an open, globalised, english speaking economy that allows them to operate at a level not on offer in any other country. They should pay for the privelidge of running their businesses here.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

We have an open, globalised, english speaking economy that allows them to operate at a level not on offer in any other country. They should pay for the privelidge of running their businesses here.

wow .... just wow.

Multinational will move to where they can maximise profits and reduce their tax burden - this is fact and will never change.

if you think you can lump a 'paddy tax' on them and they will not run a mile you are living in la la land - the lure of decent pints of guinness, the irish brogue and green fields means nothing to the decision makers back in the US - the shareholders and fund manager who only care about a number on a spreadsheet.

History has shown how quickly these multinational moved manufacturing to lower cost economies over night - it has happened before and left communities in the sh1te over night.

The Nal

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yep but they don't get a look in the media. Not one peep.

They are however having a meet up next week so see how that goes.

Think John Waters is a great speaker on freedom of speech.

You've clearly been radicalised by social media. Its a real thing and you're a textbook case. Like clones of each other who say the exact same thing with the exact same opinions and who run away when questioned.

I find it equal parts fascinating and sad.

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What if it collapses? What if some cannot afford one?

Private pensions don't collapse, you divert into bonds or cash for the last ten years of your working life

Most people can afford more than they claim, live more frugally and prioritise

Mad_maxx

whippet wrote: »

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

The welfare state is also too fat

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

The kind of foreigners who are employed by FB and Google etc are no strain on the tax payer