No right wing alternative= No alternative

Tony EH

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Yeah it's a surprisingly persistent Bad History trope.

The Wages of Destruction, The Making and Breaking of The Nazi Economy by Adam Tooze is a good, albeit fairly dry, book on the actual economics of the Third Reich.
TLDR the "Socialist" stuff was hyped up and was not really a priority of Hitler's, especially once he got rid of Roehm and his boys (ohhh matron) in the night of the long knives.

It's a supremely foolish point, that's always brought up by someone that hasn't the first clue what they're talking about.

Hitler added "Nationalsozialistische" to the DAP in an attempt to draw voters away from the KPD and SPD. But he or any other party member were anything but a Socialist. He hated Socialism and set out to destroy German trade unions and embarked on a privatisation programme too.

The simple minded see "Socialist' in the Nazi title and bish, bash, bosh jump to the wrong conclusion.

Iscreamkone

Tony EH wrote: »

No. It's true because it's true.

A lot of people on the right are just frustrated, miserable, bastards, who's political outlooks are solely defined by things that they hate. They spend an inordinate amount of time whinging about other people, usually some minority group of some description, that passes as a target for all the ills of society, while longing for someone to come along an eliminate those problems, all the while completely misunderstanding that the elimination of those targets won't make their lives any better.

By the way, there is no "far left" in Ireland, just like they is no "Far right". Using these terms to describe anybody in this country just displays a childish ignorance of what they actually mean.

I would describe myself as right wing economically, and certainly am not frustrated or miserable.
Ok, maybe a little frustrated that my hard earned earnings are being taxed and given to those whose contribution to society is nil.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

No. It's true because it's true.

A lot of people on the right are just frustrated, miserable, bastards, who's political outlooks are solely defined by things that they hate. They spend an inordinate amount of time whinging about other people, usually some minority group of some description, that passes as a target for all the ills of society, while longing for someone to come along an eliminate those problems, all the while completely misunderstanding that the elimination of those targets won't make their lives any better.

By the way, there is no "far left" in Ireland, just like they is no "Far right". Using these terms to describe anybody in this country just displays a childish ignorance of what they actually mean.

Sums up alot of the posters on here alright. Amazing how much time they have to post given how hard working they are supposed to be.

Tony EH

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I would describe myself as right wing economically, and certainly am not frustrated or miserable.
Ok, maybe a little frustrated that my hard earned earnings are being taxed and given to those whose contribution to society is nil.

You fit the bill beautifully. Whinging about some minority that's relatively insignificant.

Idbatterim

in a country, where seemingly many dont want to pay for anything, water, LPT, inheritance tax etc. People think that its just fair game then, to tax a portion from a low income at FIFTY percent! When a .18% (less than a fifth of a percent). It it taking the piss! I believe the dole was increased back up to one hundred percent for the under 25's recently. I mean, couldnt that be far better spent on mental health services etc, which are severely underfunded for example?!

Even if its not all tax cuts, but the waste of sums here, to one area, at the expense of other areas, that actually could desperately use them, is a disgrace! Pf course, mental health for example, doesnt have a vote, no wonder they dont try to buy it off :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Ahwell wrote: »

Immigration is not an election issue here. The Irish Freedom Party got 1.2% of the vote in Wexford by-election. And what do you mean by immigration exactly? Are you including the freedom of movement of people within the EU? We voted for that in a referendum and the only way out of that would be to leave the EU. That is not going to happen.

I mean, because irish politicians wont address problems, mainly us Irish and in particular, the want everything for free brigade, are going to start getting increasingly irritated over the coming years, when immigrants come in, putting pressure on housing, health, infrastructure (which are areas our politicians will do nothing about), I dont blame the immigrants, but watch attitudes change, when there isnt plenty left at the table for all. I mean the budget before an election year, they didnt even increase welfare or tax cuts, with a booming economy. How does that look going forward, the health black hole has to have the money thrown at it, public service pay agreement due. They wont raise the likes of the LPT etc. They are going to put themselves / us in a very precarious situation, will be interesting what happens, when the money to just give away endless give away budgets runs out, due to their decisions, like talk of lowering pension age again and other such madness :rolleyes:

Its now we should be inviting the IMF back in to make decisions. Let them make them the next bust, they dont have to worry about the political aspect of it as much!

Winning_Stroke

Tony EH wrote: »

No. It's true because it's true.

Ah the tautological argument. Very handy that one.

A lot of people on the right are just frustrated, miserable, bastards, who's political outlooks are solely defined by things that they hate. They spend an inordinate amount of time whinging about other people, usually some minority group of some description, that passes as a target for all the ills of society, while longing for someone to come along an eliminate those problems, all the while completely misunderstanding that the elimination of those targets won't make their lives any better.

Ahahaha! Are you serious? Go your nearest anti-<Israel, Austerity, what-have-you> protest. Look at the FB comments on any of the alphabet soup leftie groups. Your description matches them near exactly.

By the way, there is no "far left" in Ireland, just like they is no "Far right". Using these terms to describe anybody in this country just displays a childish ignorance of what they actually mean.

People going around flying the hammer and sickle, are far left d!ckheads. Lads doing similar with nazi emblems and the likes, are far right d!ckheads. Admittedly they are both on the fringes but I do have candidates looking for my vote who have FB pics of them attending events were the H&S flag was lfying and at least one of them carried it themselves.

Chris_Heilong

Idbatterim wrote: »

in a country, where seemingly many dont want to pay for anything, water, LPT, inheritance tax etc. People think that its just fair game then, to tax a portion from a low income at FIFTY percent! When a .18% (less than a fifth of a percent). It it taking the piss! I believe the dole was increased back up to one hundred percent for the under 25's recently. I mean, couldnt that be far better spent on mental health services etc, which are severely underfunded for example?!

Even if its not all tax cuts, but the waste of sums here, to one area, at the expense of other areas, that actually could desperately use them, is a disgrace! Pf course, mental health for example, doesnt have a vote, no wonder they dont try to buy it off :rolleyes:

Those taxes should not exist and did not exist 10 years ago, Water was already being paid for in our taxes so people not being happy to pay for new revenue gatering measures by the Govenment in order to pay back the IMF is understandable.

We should not have borrowed so much from the IMF to begin with, Irish banks are private businesses and our govenment should have let the European investors and the Banks who had operations here sort out their own business as it was a private affair. It was crazy our government decided to take on the banks debts and not put in a plan to eventually be paid back by said banks.

Tony EH

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Those taxes should not exist and did not exist 10 years ago, Water was already being paid for in our taxes so people not being happy to pay for new revenue gatering measures by the Govenment in order to pay back the IMF is understandable.

People weren't happy to see our water hocked off to private enterprise, which is where it was heading, and acted accordingly. They were correct.

As for the LPT, nobody is happy to have the HOME taxed and FG lied saying they wouldn't do it.

I always find it laughable that the right, who are supposed to be about getting rid of taxes are generally fine about the LPT, a tax for which we get absolutely NOTHING in return.

kowloon

Left and Right serve no useful purpose. Why split everything into two competing teams that you have to be 100% for or against? Why not just accept that things are a little more complicated and weigh up each party by policy. Either that or don't bother voting.

tjhook

I'd like to see a better balance of parties in this country. Our flavour of democracy favours coalitions. Today, our coalitions are between parties that are trying to out-do eachother over who will spend more on social services, who has the most put aside for "negotiations" with unions.

Fine Gael proposes a ratio of 3:1, spending increases to tax cuts. And they're supposedly the "right-wing" party. Fiannna Fail ups it to 4:1. How many parties propose 1:2? That would present a real choice between left and right. Or where's the party saying no tax cuts or spending increases, we should instead decrease this huge €200B debt?

What I'd like to see is a negotiation between a pair of parties, one who wants less spending and one who wants more. It would encourage them to spend wisely, rather than just throwing (our) money into a black hole, knowing the appetite will always exist to add more to it.

alastair

Tony EH wrote: »

People weren't happy to see our water hocked off to private enterprise, which is where it was heading, and acted accordingly. They were correct.

As for the LPT, nobody is happy to have the HOME taxed and FG lied saying they wouldn't do it.

I always find it laughable that the right, who are supposed to be about getting rid of taxes are generally fine about the LPT, a tax for which we get absolutely NOTHING in return.

LPT goes into the local authority spend. That’s not nothing.

Iscreamkone

Tony EH wrote: »

You fit the bill beautifully. Whinging about some minority that's relatively insignificant.

Luv you too xxx

Insignificant minorities? You couldn't make it up.
The amount of Irish people with their hands out for free stuff is far from insignificant.
Medical cards, dole, public service jobs and pensions, free houses, HAP, childrens allowance etc etc etc.

Give me money for nothing, I deserve it.
FFS.

Tony EH

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Luv you too xxx

Insignificant minorities? You couldn't make it up.
The amount of Irish people with their hands out for free stuff is far from insignificant.
Medical cards, dole, public service jobs and pensions, free houses, HAP, childrens allowance etc etc etc.

Give me money for nothing, I deserve it.
FFS.

More whining about an insignificant minority of people who game a system. :pac:

Idbatterim

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Those taxes should not exist and did not exist 10 years ago, Water was already being paid for in our taxes so people not being happy to pay for new revenue gatering measures by the Govenment in order to pay back the IMF is understandable.

We should not have borrowed so much from the IMF to begin with, Irish banks are private businesses and our govenment should have let the European investors and the Banks who had operations here sort out their own business as it was a private affair. It was crazy our government decided to take on the banks debts and not put in a plan to eventually be paid back by said banks.

shouldnt exist? are you out of your mind, go propose that to any other non banana republic! Go to the uk and tell them to abolish council tax and water charges, or Germany! its madness! absolute madness! Taking on the anglo debt was madness, but the place is run by absolute morons, what else could we have expected?! You had the politicians throwing money around like confetti and most of the population wanted more of it. We reap what we sow! hence, if FF get in and do the same again! LOL! imagine the humiliation of two busts in close succession, delivered by FF...

Idbatterim

Tony EH wrote: »

More whining about an insignificant minority of people who game a system. :pac:

how much is the near free social housing costing? We could let them out for market rate for argument sake. Assuming that would bring in billions extra per year? or let them out for reasonable rates, they can then pay that, or let taxpayers move into the massively subsidised housing and they can ditch the big commutes etc, they certainly have a hell of a lot bigger right to well located, subsidised by themselves housing, than margaret cash and the legions like her...

Tony EH

Idbatterim wrote: »

how much is the near free social housing costing? We could let them out for market rate for argument sake. Assuming that would bring in billions extra per year? or let them out for reasonable rates, they can then pay that, or let taxpayers move into the massively subsidised housing and they can ditch the big commutes etc, they certainly have a hell of a lot bigger right to well located, subsidised by themselves housing, than margaret cash and the legions like her...

I don't care. It isn't something I give a crap about as it's too little of an issue.

Look, if you think it's so great, quit and go on the dole and get all this "free stuff" you think others are getting. Put your whining where your mouth is.

If it's so great on the dole, why do the vast majority of people want to get off of it so badly and dread the thought of ending up on it.

PeasantHater

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't care. It isn't something I give a crap about as it's too little of an issue.

Look, if you think it's so great, quit and go on the dole and get all this "free stuff" you think others are getting. Put your whining where your mouth is.

If it's so great on the dole, why do the vast majority of people want to get off of it so badly and dread the thought of ending up on it.

Some people have enough pride and dignity to not become a parasite, It's laughable how people on here defend the cradle to grave lifers on welfare, yes, there's a lot that require it (disabled, carers) and there a lot that don't want to be on it/avoid it, yet there is enough spongers to warrant outrage and contempt.

Look at some of the young pondlife that spawn in certain areas of the country, I'm sure a lot of their families have been mass contributors to the tax take...LOL.

GhostofKNugget

Idbatterim wrote: »

I mean, because irish politicians wont address problems, mainly us Irish and in particular, the want everything for free brigade, are going to start getting increasingly irritated over the coming years, when immigrants come in, putting pressure on housing, health, infrastructure (which are areas our politicians will do nothing about), I dont blame the immigrants, but watch attitudes change, when there isnt plenty left at the table for all. I mean the budget before an election year, they didnt even increase welfare or tax cuts, with a booming economy. How does that look going forward, the health black hole has to have the money thrown at it, public service pay agreement due. They wont raise the likes of the LPT etc. They are going to put themselves / us in a very precarious situation, will be interesting what happens, when the money to just give away endless give away budgets runs out, due to their decisions, like talk of lowering pension age again and other such madness :rolleyes:

Its now we should be inviting the IMF back in to make decisions. Let them make them the next bust, they dont have to worry about the political aspect of it as much!

I'm confused by this - you are giving out because the last budget was a prudent one and not a vote-buying giveaway which is normally the case preceding an election and then you're giving out about endless giveaway budgets on the other hand...

Geuze

Tony EH wrote: »

As for the LPT, nobody is happy to have the HOME taxed and


I always find it laughable that the right, who are supposed to be about getting rid of taxes are generally fine about the LPT, a tax for which we get absolutely NOTHING in return.

I strongly support the LPT.


Property taxes are the best of all taxes, as they have less negative distortionary effects.

Idbatterim

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't care. It isn't something I give a crap about as it's too little of an issue.

Look, if you think it's so great, quit and go on the dole and get all this "free stuff" you think others are getting. Put your whining where your mouth is.

If it's so great on the dole, why do the vast majority of people want to get off of it so badly and dread the thought of ending up on it.

unfortunately I dont have a vagina, and an little or "angle" or two, to bend the government over backwards with! and you know what, when the system is as weak as it is, they are right to exploit it! **** commute, renting or living somewhere ****, or pump out a kid or two and go onto easy street, have the fella living in with them, get the single mothers allowance etc...

Hence this housing issue wont and cant be addressed, you have created an very easy option for a woman with kids, or a **** option for others. Yeah, I can see the housing list problem being solved any day now, around the same time as health! A ha ha ha ha ha ha :rolleyes:

Geuze

Tony EH wrote: »

I always find it laughable that the right, who are supposed to be about getting rid of taxes are generally fine about the LPT, a tax for which we get absolutely NOTHING in return.

LPT is income to the councils, mainly.

It replaces previous central govts grants.

You are correct, no extra services.

It is base of broadening the tax base.

Tony EH

PeasantHater wrote: »

Some people have enough pride and dignity to not become a parasite,

Oh yeah. I'm sure you're all absolute paragons. :pac:

alastair

Idbatterim wrote: »

how much is the near free social housing costing? We could let them out for market rate for argument sake. Assuming that would bring in billions extra per year? or let them out for reasonable rates, they can then pay that, or let taxpayers move into the massively subsidised housing and they can ditch the big commutes etc, they certainly have a hell of a lot bigger right to well located, subsidised by themselves housing, than margaret cash and the legions like her...

So - you reckon that shifting all local authority tenants out into the private rental sector is a cost-saver overall? That’s circa 40,000 families in Dublin alone. I’m sure the landlords would be happy to buy that local authority housing stock with the windfall of rent income such pressure would bring to the market. There’s profit in that scenario, and it’s all going to end up coming from those hard done by taxpayers you’re so concerned about.

Idbatterim

GhostofKNugget wrote: »

I'm confused by this - you are giving out because the last budget was a prudent one and not a vote-buying giveaway which is normally the case preceding an election and then you're giving out about endless giveaway budgets on the other hand...

FF will ramp it up if they get in, thats for sure. I would prefer steady budgets, rather than FF dump fuel on the fire, then years of cuts again. Far better off with moderate controlled growth...

facehugger99

We have been doing this counter-cyclical approach to our budgets for generations now. It is the definition of insanity.

There is not a single party that doesn't believe in it - presumably because any party that suggested we cut current spending in a time of plenty, wouldn't get within an ass's roar of getting elected.

There will be another crash, spending will be slashed and we can all blame whoever the next Cowen or Bertie to make ourselves feel better, but it is the electorate that bear the blame.

Idbatterim

facehugger99 wrote: »

We have been doing this counter-cyclical approach to our budgets for generations now. It is the definition of insanity.

There is not a single party that doesn't believe in it - presumably because any party that suggested we cut current spending in a time of plenty, wouldn't get within an ass's roar of getting elected.

There will be another crash, spending will be slashed and we can all blame whoever the next Cowen or Bertie to make ourselves feel better, but it is the electorate that bear the blame.

I really think this is a strong possibility. Half of me says bring it on and I will laugh / despair when it happens again. I really think a second dose of it , may be needed, for it to finally sink it, that you need prudent management of the economy. I dont see the point in FG constantly risking the economy, for give away budgets, raising welfare across the board. when their own voters are deserting them over it and they would never get a vote from those people anyway.I do absolutely get, why its easier to get dragged to the left for them, but its mistake!

jimmycrackcorm

Tony EH wrote: »

People weren't happy to see our water hocked off to private enterprise, which is where it was heading, and acted accordingly. They were correct.

As for the LPT, nobody is happy to have the HOME taxed and FG lied saying they wouldn't do it.

I always find it laughable that the right, who are supposed to be about getting rid of taxes are generally fine about the LPT, a tax for which we get absolutely NOTHING in return.

It was a whole fake news narrative about eatery being hocked off privately. If that was going to happen then why has the ESB not been.

I prefer paying LPT as a wealth tax than being punished for trying to earn more.

Taxes are taxes no matter what. It's as silly a concept to suggest you get nothing for a particular tax as it is to suggest there should be a Garda tax so you can get a quicker response when you ring the Gardai.

Idbatterim

Jimmy, having a marginal rate at fifty percent, is pure idiocy. At that high a rate and at so low a threshold, people in the company I work for, usually wont take extra hours, if its at the marginal rate. That is a pretty idiotic tax system! and no, paying about E40 an hour, isnt viable before some genius here comes along and suggests it, there is a limit to what clients in the private sector will pay, believe it or not...

But that is what you are going to get, when you have very high spending and an extremely narrow income tax base. As good as no LPT, water charges etc. This country would be in a bad way if it wasnt for the low corporation tax and hard workers, who keep the gravy train flowing for so many!

Loafing Oaf

Idbatterim wrote: »

I dont see the point in FG constantly risking the economy, for give away budgets, raising welfare across the board. when their own voters are deserting them over it

Are they? Who are they deserting FG for?