No right wing alternative= No alternative

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

It’s evidenced by nothing more than your personal bias. Which is entirely unconvincing. Once again - those most likely to be interacting with larger numbers of immigrants voted remain.

That is so demonstrably untrue in so many places, that you should withdraw it for it's total uselessness.

AllForIt

alastair wrote: »

Are you claiming any critical consideration for this remarkable theory? Culture is the culture?

Yeah, what's wrong with that. What's wrong with culture? Have you got a problem with it?

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, in this context you can not cherrypick from the Irish populace.

Irish people have an intrinsic right to live in this country. Not everyone else does.

Fewer parasitic draws on the system would mean less drain on resources. A desirable thing.

Your source is more informative than you are.

I can cherrypick all I like in response to any cherry picking I encounter. But thanks for your thoughts. Immigrants still net contributors, as stated earlier.

alastair

AllForIt wrote: »

Yeah, what's wrong with that. What's wrong with culture? Have you got a problem with it?

I’m a big fan of comprehensible arguments, but maybe it’s just me?

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

That is so demonstrably untrue in so many places, that you should withdraw it for it's total uselessness.

Nope. I’m happy enough.

Doctor Jimbob

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, in this context you can not cherrypick from the Irish populace.

Irish people have an intrinsic right to live in this country. Not everyone else does.

Fewer parasitic draws on the system would mean less drain on resources. A desirable thing.

Your source is more informative than you are.

Define irish people.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

I can cherrypick all I like in response to any cherry picking I encounter. But thanks for your thoughts. Immigrants still net contributors, as stated earlier.

I didn't contradict your facile observation.

I just used your source to freshen up that extremely jejeune way in which you present the matter.

You're welcome.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I didn't contradict your facile observation.

I just used your source to freshen up that extremely jejeune way in which you present the matter.

You're welcome.

You really didn’t. Because I was present the facts in a specifically defined context. Q: Are the non-Irish a draw on resources in Ireland? A: Nope they’re not. They’re net contributors.

Now, if you want to get into strands of people that are not net contributors from either non-Irish, or Irish, you can find ample, but that doesn’t remove from the reality of the issue above. Sorry you feel so sensitive about this.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

You really didn’t. Because I was present the facts in a specifically defined context. Q: Are the non-Irish a draw on resources in Ireland? A: Nope they’re not. They’re net contributors.

Once again - I took the source you provided, and without contradicting in any way what you had said, highlighted a very apposite and informative insight of the article's.

You don't get to confine the debate strictly to your terms.

Sorry that you're so sensitive about that.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Once again - I took the source you provided, and without contradicting in any way what you had said, highlighted a very apposite and informative insight of the article's.

You don't get to confine the debate strictly to your terms.

Sorry that you're so sensitive about that.

Not my terms - the terms set by the original claim. Glad to help.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Not my terms - the terms set by the original claim. Glad to help.

You don't get to confine the debate to anyone else's terms either. Especially via your sources.

Once again, you're welcome.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You don't get to confine the debate to anyone else's terms either. Especially via your sources.

Once again, you're welcome.

Happily I do get to respond to a specific claim with data that responds to the specific nature of that claim. The difficulty arises with your desire to distract from that specificity. See previous reference to unwarranted sensitivity.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Happily I do get to respond to a specific claim with data that responds to the specific nature of that claim. The difficulty arises with your desire to distract from that specificity. See previous reference to unwarranted sensitivity.

Nobody is stopping you from responding to a specific claim with data.

Actually all you did was make a general statement about a general claim. But whatever.

I simply read your source - in fact, a specific claim - and commented on it without contradicting you at all.

Any difficulty that arises out of that is yours alone.

Once again, see previous reference to 'you're welcome'.

alastair

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Nobody is stopping you from responding to a specific claim with data.

Actually all you did was make a general statement about a general claim. But whatever.

I simply read your source - in fact, a specific claim - and commented on it without contradicting you at all.

Any difficulty that arises out of that is yours alone.

Once again, see previous reference to 'you're welcome'.

Not a general claim - a specific claim. Irish vs non-Irish. You then opted to wander off and highlight something for your own purposes (not a claim of your own, nor anyone else’s, let’s call it a red herring). As you’re entitled to, but it really has no bearing on the specific claim made, and corrected. So as we can see - there’s no difficulty other than you understanding the nature of the claim made, and responded to. Glad to help.

Lefty Bicek

alastair wrote: »

Not a general claim - a specific claim. Irish vs non-Irish. You then opted to wander off and highlight something for your own purposes. As you’re entitled to, but it really has no bearing on the claim made, and corrected. So as we can see - there’s no difficulty other than you understanding the nature of the claim made, and responded to. Glad to help.

So as we can see -

'Non-Irish'

is very general.

'Africans experiencing low employment rates of 45%'

is very specific. And enlightening.

Once again, you're welcome.

Morgans

alastair wrote: »

It’s evidenced by nothing more than your personal bias. Which is entirely unconvincing. Once again - those most likely to be interacting with larger numbers of immigrants voted remain.

Yes, by your words. Those with lived experience of interactions with immigrants do not find them damaging to society.

Those who have fewer interactions do and one of the main reasons for voting leave. The ignorant. I wonder what got them to believe it such a problem when those who interact with immigrants don't believe it to be so.

rgossip30

Morgans wrote: »

Yes, by your words. Those with lived experience of interactions with immigrants do not find them damaging to society.

Those who have fewer interactions do and one of the main reasons for voting leave. The ignorant. I wonder what got them to believe it such a problem when those who interact with immigrants don't believe it to be so.

A general statement I have interacted with non EU migrants and disagree . My ex too used to deal with mostly asylum seekers and the scam stories were just ridiculous . You are aware that 90 of claims are rejected as false.

Morgans

rgossip30 wrote: »

A general statement I have interacted with non EU migrants and disagree . My ex too used to deal with mostly asylum seekers and the scam stories were just ridiculous . You are aware that 90 of claims are rejected as false.

Not my words. Alastair's.

Beasty

Lefty Bicek and alastair - cut out all this back and forwards on this immigration point if you wish to continue posting here

alastair

Interesting to see that immigration rated so low on polled voting motivations. It’s as if the routing of the ‘patriots’ and assorted far right candidates was reflective of their overwhelming lack of support here.

SporadicMan

Housing is a major concern while immigration is one of the lowest.

Shows how idiotic the general populace is if they can't see even a vague link between the two.

40% of the housing list is non-EU nationals.

alastair

SporadicMan wrote: »

Housing is a major concern while immigration is one of the lowest.

Shows how idiotic the general populace is if they can't see even a vague link between the two.

40% of the housing list is non-EU nationals.

Maybe the idiocy issue isn’t with the general populace? Ever considered that?

The Nal

The salty tears from the small world view right wing nutjobs is glorious to watch

FreeThePants

Well it looks like for some, it's back to a few more years of trying to hype up that big right wing/far right populist movement that is definitely going to come to Ireland any day now. Didn't happen thus time... Again.

Oh well, next time lads. Next time.

Dyr

SporadicMan wrote: »

Housing is a major concern while immigration is one of the lowest.

Shows how idiotic the general populace is if they can't see even a vague link between the two.

40% of the housing list is non-EU nationals.

The media won't touch that and there isnt a single a major party who's going to risk running that line, only the loony right. It might work for those sorts on the continent because the local variety here are all wall eyed loons

Interestingly SF have softened their cough big time on immigration. Took Bob Dylans advice on not needing weathermen to judge wind direction

Brian?

AllForIt wrote: »

Culture derived over thousands of years. Culture is the culture. It doesn't make sense to have 2 cultures side by side. Over time both cultures would meld to one culture. Like hundreds of years more. Then a lefty would hate it because it's considered one culture and would endeavor to split it once again.

I think I need some DMT to attempt to understand this logic.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

AllForIt wrote: »

Culture derived over thousands of years. Culture is the culture. It doesn't make sense to have 2 cultures side by side. Over time both cultures would meld to one culture. Like hundreds of years more. Then a lefty would hate it because it's considered one culture and would endeavor to split it once again.

How are you defining culture..?

As it stands, this makes no sense - cultures are collective viewpoints and lifestyles and can evolve over much shorter time spans (urban culture) and there are different cultures existing side by side (urban culture, rural culture).

The mistake you appear to be making is in assuming culture MUST be based on nationality or history, which is pretty much first as you here a about different cultures all the time.

The Nal

FreeThePants wrote: »

Well it looks like for some, it's back to a few more years of trying to hype up that big right wing/far right populist movement that is definitely going to come to Ireland any day now. Didn't happen thus time... Again.

Oh well, next time lads. Next time.

The results this morning have put that "movement" back decades in this country.

Mad_maxx

SporadicMan wrote: »

Housing is a major concern while immigration is one of the lowest.

Shows how idiotic the general populace is if they can't see even a vague link between the two.

40% of the housing list is non-EU nationals.

The political and media class dismiss concerns about immigration within the context of housing, this leads to conditioning

alastair

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The political and media class dismiss concerns about immigration within the context of housing, this leads to conditioning

Suuure. ‘Conditioning’. Well known to work on the Irish electorate,