No right wing alternative= No alternative

AulWan

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Choice is desperately important actually. .

But you don't apply that to a woman having control over her own body, obviously.

ancapailldorcha

Bambi wrote: »

Is there not some hard right party running candidates, Justin Barret and them headers?

I think Ben Gilroy has aligned with the Irish Freedom Party/Irexit party. Surely they'd do the job.

thegetawaycar

victor8600 wrote: »

Do explain: what is the definition of a "right wing" party for you?

Because I consider both FF/FG to be center-right parties. Ireland is one of the most capitalist countries in the EU, only with strangely lax unemployment policies. Ireland has fifth largest number of billionaires per capita in the world. Business regulation is very lax, with banks allowed to charge the highest interest for mortgages in the Western Europe. Childcare "subsidy" is a joke, with families in Dublin paying a €1000 or more per month per child in creche (compared to €150-200 in Germany).

Hardly a left wing socialist country, and the result of the FF/FG tandem in power.

Can you really consider FF and FG centre-right? Both raise welfare, pension rates etc... at every opportunity and spend every cent on day to day expenditure.

Both agree with large subsidies for childcare, free healthcare/GP cards etc... for the welfare class, HAP, child benefit etc... While I don't necessarily think all of these are bad things I don't call them right wing policies.

I'd more say our politics are based on try to appease everyone a little so we can sort ourselves and our mates out.

Not a left or right wing issue but we have an issue with the quick fix instead of the long term gain.

Put the money spent on HAP into building apartments and have the council rent them as "affordable rent apartments". Encourage parents to stay at home with their kids with tax breaks etc... and you would have much less demand for the childcare places.

Lower Jobseekers benefit/allowance to be stamp based and instead have accommodation, transport, healthcare free at point of contact. All of those would take time to implement and would be much better for society as a whole than an extra 10er a week for people.

marieholmfan

Somedaythefire wrote: »

You want a libertarian party.



A question though, how is a "small government" interfering in women's choice ok? Shouldn't a "small government" have minimal involvement in that?

He doesn't want an economically right socially libertarian party because those ideas don't care about drugs, borders, abortion, ethnicity or language.

Clarence Boddiker

marieholmfan wrote: »

Looked up the national party


The National Party believes strongly in the principle of a Constitutional Republic, founded on individual personal freedoms, rights and responsibilities. We reject and resist a totalitarianism whose essence is found in the totality of State power and the exercise of State authority, and not the ideological direction of that totality.
To me this is weird code for no social services

The National Party believes in an aristocracy of achievement within a democracy of opportunity, practised and established economically by the strong advocacy of Free Productive Enterprise. Consequently we endorse the inalienable right to the ownership of Private Property, and shall defend that right against the equally dangerous encroachment of both State Socialism and Monopoly Capitalism.
There's the grift

Private property is a grift now?

Somedaythefire

marieholmfan wrote: »

He doesn't want an economically right socially libertarian party because those ideas don't care about drugs, borders, abortion, ethnicity or language.

Fair point. I've noticed a lot of wannabe libertarians are aligning more with OP than classic libertarian views though. "small government, but control women and minorities"

Cordell

marieholmfan wrote: »

I' would hammer them alot. The council houses would be built long before we ran out of rich people's money.

I can't take it seriously until you define rich - because some will define a household on 100k per year as rich.

I would guess 200k houses need to be build to alleviate the shortage and have some headroom. On 200k per build, that's 40 billions. They need to do half in the first term to prove it's possible so 20 billions on housing alone.

marieholmfan

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Private property is a grift now?

You better believe it baby. Rabbiting on about immigrants and abortion is just cover for cutting rich people's taxes. It's the meat of what the national party are about - the rest is just hot air - apart from the low taxes and aristocracy of achievement it is just a trick to fool morons.


They believe in democracy of opportunity so do they suppport 100% inheritance tax and no private schools?

marieholmfan

Cordell wrote: »

I can't take it seriously until you define rich - because some will define a household on 100k per year as rich.

I would guess 200k houses need to be build to alleviate the shortage and have some headroom. On 200k per build, that's 40 billions. They need to do half in the first term to prove it's possible so 20 billions on housing alone.

Multi multi millionaires - and before you tell me they'll run off to Monaco or whatever I would rendite them for that.

jam_mac_jam

Why is it assumed that all right wing people are anti abortion? Not everyone who is right wing is religious and some people who are left wing are pro life. Are there not fiscally conservative people who are more worried about economics then religious issues.

I would have thought in the way of libertarianism you would want governments out of decision making. So I really can't get this oh this issue is only for the right and this is for the left.

Somedaythefire

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why is it assumed that all right wing people are anti abortion? Not everyone who is right wing is religious and some people who are left wing are pro life. Are there not fiscally conservative people who are more worried about economics then religious issues.

I would have thought in the way of libertarianism you would want governments out of decision making. So I really can't get this oh this issue is only for the right and this is for the left.

Because OP doesn’t really know what they’re talking about.

marieholmfan

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why is it assumed that all right wing people are anti abortion? Not everyone who is right wing is religious and some people who are left wing are pro life.

I would have thought in the way of libertarianism you would want governments out of decision making. So I really can't get this oh this issue is only for the right and this is for the left.

It's just a trick to fool the elderly and morons.
Anti abortion people are older than average and anti immigration people are dumber than average. Both are easy to fool into giving tax cuts to the shadowy individuals behind groups like the national party. That's why it's called a grift.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

OP may be a bit misguided but he's right. There are no alternatives... well they are but they were buried with the timing of this election, the day after the election was called we all saw FF, FG, Greens, SF posters go up everywhere and those leaflets pushed through our letterboxes. 3 weeks doesn't give any time for the smaller parties to get their stuff together, it's VERY convenient timing...not to mention this RTE debate that just features...Varadkar and Martin.

There are no alternatives because that's what they want.

Cordell

marieholmfan wrote: »

Multi multi millionaires - and before you tell me they'll run off to Monaco or whatever I would rendite them for that.

Assuming they don't run, you still need to extract billions from them, 40 of them, in cold hard cash, and fast. They don't have it, most of their wealth is in assets, not cash.

Mad_maxx

The Nal wrote: »

Renua are a new right wing party. They got lots of coverage from the "MSM" and 2.2%, 0.4% and 0.6% of people voted for them in three elections they have contested.

They get a fraction of the media exposure that the far left receives

Nobody in the party has impressed me yet however

We won't see the emergence of a proper Conservative party until some sort of vaguely conservative media outlet arrives, Leo was roasted by the media three years ago for making the vanilla comment that he

"wanted to give those who rise early a break"

Unless politicians promise to spend, spend and spend more along with quelling opposition to DP centres etc, they are going to be hammered by the media here

Somedaythefire

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They get a fraction of the media exposure that the far left receives

Nobody in the party has impressed me yet however

I’m interested in knowing who these far left parties getting exposure are?

Just PBP/Solidarity?

is_that_so

The Nal wrote: »

Renua are a new right wing party. They got lots of coverage from the "MSM" and 2.2%, 0.4% and 0.6% of people voted for them in three elections they have contested.

We don't do right and left, politically, in the sense that other countries view it. Most of what we have is in the centre or leftish with tinges of the right in FG in some areas. We have a few loony left but of little consequence.

is_that_so

Somedaythefire wrote: »

I’m interested in knowing who these far left parties getting exposure are?

Anyone not FG or FF would be my guess.

Somedaythefire

is_that_so wrote: »

Anyone not FG or FF would be my guess.

Also my guess, although seems some people here seem to think FF/FG are left wing. So I’m kind of confused.

gmisk

circadian wrote: »

Let's not forget the National Party.

I think I'd rather we did

Dr. Bre

No left wing alternative in the US - opposite to hear

Mad_maxx

Somedaythefire wrote: »

I’m interested in knowing who these far left parties getting exposure are?

Just PBP/Solidarity?

PBP, never get above 5% of the vote, Richard boyd Barrett was a regular on RTE years before becoming even a member of Dun Laoighre Council

IAmTheReign

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

One thing that strikes me about this election is the idea people are voting for change well their really isn't any!.

All left left left and more left parties.


Not one mainstream party in Ireland is even remotely right so how can you have choice if what you vote for is all the same?.

Not a cigarette papers worth of difference between

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail/ Greens/People before profit/Sinn Fein/Labour etc etc
For example
They all support the EU Not true. PBP support leaving the EU, and SF have traditionally been Euroskeptic right up until the Brexit referendum.
they all support abortion, Also not true. A majority of FF TDs were against the abortion referendum. See here.
all support mass immigration into Ireland (in fact won't discuss it at all under any circumstances)The free movement of labour is very much an economically right wing position.
Not one will ask for public referendum on issuesIgnoring the fact that holding referendums is neither a left or right wing thing to do we've had multiple referendums over the past few years. One of which included abortion rights. Despite your opinion it was the decision of the people, not big government that allowed for abortions in Ireland.
Refuse to acknowledge billions so far has been spent on direct provision centres while the downtrodden poor Irish people die on the streets1.3 billion, not billions, has been spent in the last 20 years but what's your point exactly? I would think alt right types like yourself would love the fact we keep immigrants in what are basically internment camps. Direct provision centres have people living in appalling conditions. Besides, what do you think the government should do for those downtrodden poor Irish people? Surely a right wing type like yourself isn't advocating for some kind of lefty social programs or handouts?
Refuse to question the money doctors get from pharmaceutical firms, The amount of money that pharma companies handout to doctors is tiny in this country. Besides I don't know why you think this is a left wing thing?
refuse to acknowledge the billions Ireland has in oil and gas etc etc etc Not true. FG have publicly stated recently they are considering 10 new licences for natural gas exploration.


They are all basically the same, left leaning gombeens lining their own pockets making fools of the general public.

Worst is them hardcore Marxist parties that come out with stupid names like People before profit or Anti Austerity alliance, amazed such newspeak buzzword simplicity works on people.
All mindless leftie nonsense.


The only right wing party in Ireland I can think of is the National party and they are tiny and will never ever get media coverage. Not that I agree with them on everything a few bits.

(sigh waits for the mindless screaming of racist this and that)

I like some right wing policies ie

Small accountable government.

Pro life- Believe it or not some people believe life is still sacred Some people do, but the reality is that the people voted overwhelmingly to allow legislating for abortions. I thought you were for referendums?

Look after our own citizens first, if we can't look after our own how can we possibly look after tens of thousands of other people?. Government supports and social programs aren't exactly right wing.

A return to our own heritage. This is something often over looked in Ireland, we need to value our history culture and language. Easier said than done in a country where the vast majority of people don't speak the native tongue in fact openly desipise and dismiss it but we can make a start. I've traveled a lot and Irish people are generally well versed in their history and culture compared to other countries. Nationalism isn't exclusively right wing though, look at SF


Hate to see Ireland become a meaningless vassel state to the EU which all mainstream parties support as they will not question the EU on anything!.


So with no right wing alternative how is this General Election offering ANY alternative?.

Bit of a joke if you ask me.

OP you have a very Trumpian idea of left vs. right wing politics. If you really think your position has merit there's nothing stopping you from standing. Sure you could even throw your lot in with the National Party. I'm sure they'd take whoever they can get.

The Nal

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They get a fraction of the media exposure that the far left receives

Only because no one voted for them. They got as much exposure as the big parties when they started.

is_that_so wrote: »

We don't do right and left, politically, in the sense that other countries view it. Most of what we have is in the centre or leftish with tinges of the right in FG in some areas. We have a few loony left but of little consequence.

Somedaythefire

Mad_maxx wrote: »

PBP, never get above 5% of the vote, Richard boyd Barrett was a regular on RTE years before becoming even a member of Dun Laoighre Council

So just them? Most conservative politicians in Ireland would be part of FF/FG, who get a lot of exposure in the media under your terms. Which makes sense as they’re both economic conservative parties.

Renua were in the news a lot when they first spun out. Since then they’ve gone backwards, hence no exposure because there’s no appetite in the country for that party, less than even PBP.

super_furry

Dr. Bre wrote: »

No left wing alternative in the US - opposite to hear

True enough. The so called liberal left Democrats would be right of our main 'right-wing' party Fine Gael.

Mad_maxx

Andy Angry Woodpecker wrote: »

"Right-wing" covers a broad spectrum of beliefs, many of which conflict with one another.

Broadly, we have the nativist right, characterized by their blood-and-soil rhetoric and opposition to immigration. We have the religious right, characterized by their adherence to traditional church teachings and opposition to issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

There can be major differences of opinion between these groups. The free-market right generally welcomes immigrants while the nativist right wants to keep them out. A religious conservative might believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry is immoral, while a libertarian might say that the government shouldn't intervene in the informed choices of consenting adults. A nationalist might believe that mandatory Irish should be enforced on all children, while a libertarian again might say that the choice of what languages to speak or learn should be up to individual parents and children.

So before you start calling for a "right-wing party," you have to define exactly what you mean by that. I don't believe there's all that much support in Ireland for the nativist or religious right positions. But the Progressive Democrats did very well for many years espousing economic and social liberalism, and there's a gap there that still hasn't been filled.

Broadly speaking, is Ireland more right or left?

Lonesomerhodes

AulWan wrote: »

But you don't apply that to a woman having control over her own body, obviously.

You do realize when a woman is pregnant she carries another body?.

That baby doesn't have much 'choice' when it's being dismembered.

Anyway the whole my body my choice argument is absurd.

Can you walk around naked all day smoking crack?

Why not it's your body?.

How about jumping off a building and landing on people?.

Why not it's your body?.

There is always restrictions to some degree regarding your body, otherwise you could be naked all day long everyday.

is_that_so

Somedaythefire wrote: »

Also my guess, although seems some people here seem to think FF/FG are left wing. So I’m kind of confused.

It's that socially liberal thing SSM, 8th, feeding the costly welfare state etc.

Doctor Jimbob

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

You do realize when a woman is pregnant she carries another body?.

That baby doesn't have much 'choice' when it's being dismembered.

Anyway the whole my body my choice argument is absurd.

Can you walk around naked all day smoking crack?

Why not it's your body?.

How about jumping off a building and landing on people?.

Why not it's your body?.

There is always restrictions to some degree regarding your body, otherwise you could be naked all day long everyday.

You're the one who was going on about the importance of choice earlier in the thread.

What you really mean is there needs to be more choices that suit you though, right?