No right wing alternative= No alternative

Mad_maxx

Always Tired wrote: »

Trying to privatise our water was right wing.

Deliberately ruining the health service so people are forced to go private to get timely decent standard care is right wing.

Allowing rents and homelessness to spiral is right wing.

Bringing in free labor Jobbridge scheme and activation/harrassment Jobpath scheme from UK companies is right wing.

Bringing back college fees was right wing, as was cutting the grants, bringing in charges for prescriptions, taking away dental cleanings from medical card patients.

These were all decisions by our current gov. If you want something more right wing than them, perhaps there isn't an alternative, but that's because only very few people actually desire a systematic annihilation of the poor by decreasing their access to education and affordable housing and medical care. You could always move to England the Tories are in charge over there

The health service is utterly dysfunctional and unreformable due to union obstructionism, nobody gets fired, 80% of the budget goes on wages, those are left wing positions which government refuses to challenge

Homelessness is due to loose immigration policies, that's left wing, the left wing media, advocacy groups and quango sector demands we let in more asylum seekers etc

Lonesomerhodes

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The health service is utterly dysfunctional and unreformable due to union obstructionism, nobody gets fired, 80% of the budget goes on wages, those are left wing positions which government refuses to challenge

Homelessness is due to loose immigration policies, that's left wing, the left wing media, advocacy groups and quango sector demands we let in more asylum seekers etc

Good point on the quango's.

Over 80 in Ireland alone.

All costing the taxpayer millions and all basically do nothing.

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

The health service is utterly dysfunctional and unreformable due to union obstructionism, nobody gets fired, 80% of the budget goes on wages, those are left wing positions which government refuses to challenge

Mad_maxx wrote:

Homelessness is due to loose immigration policies, that's left wing, the left wing media, advocacy groups and quango sector demands we let in more asylum seekers etc

.....and nothing to do with policies such as austerity, bailing out bankrupt banks that caused an overheated building boom by flooding the planet with cheap credit, driving up asset prices, in particular housing?

facehugger99

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.....and nothing to do with policies such as austerity, bailing out bankrupt banks that caused an overheated building boom by flooding the planet with cheap credit, driving up asset prices, in particular housing?

So you don't like austerity or cheap credit.

:rolleyes:

Lonesomerhodes

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.....and nothing to do with policies such as austerity, bailing out bankrupt banks that caused an overheated building boom by flooding the planet with cheap credit, driving up asset prices, in particular housing?

Maybe the €1.36 billion spent on direct provision accomodation alone could house a few of those homeless Irish citizens?.


Do people not understand supply and demand?. Ireland is a small rural Island.


All the lunatic lobotomy liberal left assume Ireland has infinite resources and houses ignoring all facts that Ireland is a small Island with very limited housing resources!.

Imagine these fact ignoring lunatics actually in government; scary stuff!

Wanderer78

facehugger99 wrote:

So you don't like austerity or cheap credit.

Look at the harm that it has done, we re stuck in a spiral, nobody really knows what to do about it, global private debt levels at an all time high, many countries experiencing severe disruption in their political systems, rise of the right, some of our most critical of needs such as housing and health care etc in a mess. Yea, the great moderation and it's aftermath, hasn't been all that great

Wanderer78

Lonesomerhodes wrote:

Do people not understand supply and demand?. Ireland is a small rural Island.

Oh this neoclassical bolloxology!

earlytobed

We had the Blueshirts in the 30s

meeeeh

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Maybe the €1.36 billion spent on direct provision accomodation alone could house a few of those homeless Irish citizens?.


Do people not understand supply and demand?. Ireland is a small rural Island.


All the lunatic lobotomy liberal left assume Ireland has infinite resources and houses ignoring all facts that Ireland is a small Island with very limited housing resources!.

Imagine these fact ignoring lunatics actually in government; scary stuff!

I'm far from left wing economically but this is really ignorant. Ireland had higher population before famine than now, it's one of the less densely populated European countries so there is plenty of potential here before it gets crammed. There are issues how to grow sustainably but even if you close all the direct provision centres you will make very little difference to homelessness because they are separate issues.

Bottom line one would expect right wingers at least know their history. You are letting your side down there.

Brian?

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The health service is utterly dysfunctional and unreformable due to union obstructionism, nobody gets fired, 80% of the budget goes on wages, those are left wing positions which government refuses to challenge

Homelessness is due to loose immigration policies, that's left wing, the left wing media, advocacy groups and quango sector demands we let in more asylum seekers etc

Loose immigration policies aren’t solely left wing. Neo-liberals(laissez faire capitalism) also encourages the free movement of people.

Lonesomerhodes

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Oh this neoclassical bolloxology!

Neoclassical?. Fan of Rococo art pal?.


Assume your in the boat of the lobotomy lunatic left, Ireland has limitless houses eh:rolleyes:


Pushed by the likes of Boyd Barrett/Paul Murphy all living very very comfortably while getting their unemployed 'People before profit' minions to believe there is infinite resources and it's the big bad 'capatilist boogey man' responsible for all the countries woes. :pac:

I get the feeling the comfortable champagne socialists laugh at their mindless followers at how naive they are.

To convince them Ireland has limitless housing for asylum seekers and none for homeless Irish citizens takes some level of brainwashing.


They certainly want for nothing.

CrankyHaus

Brian? wrote: »

Loose immigration policies aren’t solely left wing. Neo-liberals(laissez faire capitalism) also encourages the free movement of people.

So much so that a few years back when Bernie Sanders was asked about Open Borders his response was "That's a Koch Brothers policy". He was oblivious to how the Left had adopted a cause celebre of the liberterian far right in recent decades.

Guava Juice

I would like a party that is economically right wing and socially left wing.

ghost of ireland past

There are no right wing parties in the sense that all of the mainstream parties support open borders and endless asylum claims from safe countries.

I reckon the OP means right wing in the nationalist sense, of closed borders and providing services to Irish people first, and only give scraps to others, instead of the other way around.

Right wing in the sense of nationalism, instead of globalisation.

Our national identity is disappearing.
Do we stand for anything?

ghost of ireland past

FTA69 wrote: »

...
I can imagine someone who prioritises ‘law and order’ (“look at your man with 130 convictions”), hostility to immigration, a pledge to take a tough line on Travellers and put the boot into the unemployed would gain popularity amongst naturally right wing people commuting 2/3 hours a day to Dublin for work and who are p*ssed off about everything.

I'd agree with this.

Hostility to immigration is a vote winner in my view, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. The media are not representative.

Irish people are known to be unwilling to say what they really think, and that's been true for decades if not centuries. Politicians take advantage of that but they would never admit it.

meeeeh

Guava Juice wrote: »

I would like a party that is economically right wing and socially left wing.

FG?

Ir do you want economically right as private education, private healthcare, no state pension and similar. Then I think you have to move to China or USA.

The Nal

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

Our national identity is disappearing.

No it is not. Quite the opposite.

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

Do we stand for anything?

Yes. Lots.

I get the impression that these "RIP Ireland" types are lifelong twitter and facebook addicts who don't get out much, don't speak to a lot of people and have never traveled anywhere. Which is genuinely sad.

ghost of ireland past

What is our national identity?

Lonesomerhodes

The Nal wrote: »

No it is not. Quite the opposite.



Yes. Lots.

I get the impression that these "RIP Ireland" types are lifelong twitter and facebook addicts who don't get out much, don't speak to a lot of people and have never traveled anywhere. Which is genuinely sad.

Says the guy with tens of thousands of posts on an opinion forum, they are the internet addicts eh!. :rolleyes:

Sonic_exyouth

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

There are no right wing parties in the sense that all of the mainstream parties support open borders and endless asylum claims from safe countries.

Thats a right wing, Cult of the "selfish individual" policy.
According to this, China, Mexico, North Korea, Laos, Vietnam are all right wing paradaises, whilst the USA, Germany, Monaco, Japan and Taiwain

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

I reckon the OP means right wing in the nationalist sense, of closed borders and providing services to Irish people first, and only give scraps to others, instead of the other way around.

Right wing in the sense of nationalism, instead of globalisation.

Economic Globalisation is a distinctly right wing thing. It's main victims live outside our borders.
We are not capable of self sufficiency, look at the amount of items that you own that are a product of exploited Labour. How many children were involved in making your clothes, your phone, your morning tea/coffee. DO you think this is left wing ?

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

Our national identity is disappearing.
Do we stand for anything?

Mostly by choice. People want the same opportunities, products, services that are available around the world.

Sonic_exyouth

Guava Juice wrote: »

I would like a party that is economically right wing and socially left wing.

Define "socially left wing" ?

The Nal

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

What is our national identity?

Same as it always was. Inclusive, friendly, loyal, family and friend focused, creative, awkward with compliments and praise, passionate, imaginative, funny, procrastinators, rebellious, apathetic regarding authority etc.

We're quite unique.

But we're better now as we've shown real progressive change regarding equal rights and the abandonment of religion in a very short period of time.

How is our national identity disappearing?

Sonic_exyouth

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

I'd agree with this.

Hostility to immigration is a vote winner in my view, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. The media are not representative.

Irish people are known to be unwilling to say what they really think, and that's been true for decades if not centuries. Politicians take advantage of that but they would never admit it.

Unlikely;

this is the problem with Twitter, Forums etc - you are fed in a circle of complementing views and believe that this is generally representative.

It has been put to the GE/LE polls on many, many occasions and failed.

I'm not aware of a single Immigrant-free Irish family.

relax carry on

The Nal wrote: »

Same as it always was. Inclusive, friendly, loyal, family and friend focused, creative, awkward with compliments and praise, passionate, imaginative, funny, procrastinators, rebellious, apathetic regarding authority etc.

We're quite unique.

But we're better now as we've shown real progressive change regarding equal rights and the abandonment of religion in a very short period of time.

How is our national identity disappearing?

I think by national identity he means some sort of rose tinted fantasy nostalgic view of Ireland from roughly the 50s. Everyone white, women and children knew their place. None of the foreign stuff. Sovereignty for all etc etc.

banie01

relax carry on wrote: »

I think by national identity he means some sort of rose tinted fantasy nostalgic view of Ireland from roughly the 50s. Everyone white, women and children knew their place. None of the foreign stuff. Sovereignty for all etc etc.

Where the "cead mile failte" is reserved solely for the right kind of visitor

banie01

Sonic_exyouth wrote: »

I'm not aware of a single Immigrant-free Irish family.

Or to bit a little further spin on your point, I'm not aware of a single emigrant free Irish family.
Even during our booms, we wandered!

Why was it ok for us to go seek a bit of fortune outside our rock?
Yet reciprocating that simple act is somehow anti-irish?

Geuze

FTA69 wrote: »

FF and FG are largely neo-liberal capitalists; they accept the free market as the dynamic with which to run society, are pro big business and pro austerity. However the latter has also led to high personal taxation on ordinary people thus winding a lot of the population up. They’re essentially very much parties of the wider capitalist status quo.

Like many neo-liberal parties though, they’ve moved very quickly to being socially progressive or indifferent on issues such as abortion and homosexuality etc. If you compare the Blueshirts and FF from the 1980s to today on these matters there has been a huge shift - that having been said many of the grass roots of these organisation remain socially conservative, especially in rural areas.

What we do have a deficit of in Ireland is a populist right or far-right party in Ireland; one that is socially and economically conservative, explicitly anti-migrant, very much pro ‘the family’ etc etc along the lines of Hungary, Poland or the Front Nationale in France. Traditionally we’ve never had the constituency for such organisations but it could be there in future.

I can imagine someone who prioritises ‘law and order’ (“look at your man with 130 convictions”), hostility to immigration, a pledge to take a tough line on Travellers and put the boot into the unemployed would gain popularity amongst naturally right wing people commuting 2/3 hours a day to Dublin for work and who are p*ssed off about everything.

Good analysis.

Note that austerity finished years ago, public spending has been rising for several years.

Income taxes are not high, but the top MTR does start very early, yes.

Income taxes are very progressive, yes.

I don't agree with using the word "hostility" to immigration, I think most reasonable people accept and agree with EU immigrants. I think what people are not happy with is bogus AS, and too many non-EU immgrants.

Geuze

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

Hostility to immigration is a vote winner in my view, even if it doesn't seem like it at the moment. The media are not representative.

Is it?

I am all for restrictions on non-EU immigrants, deporting the many bogus AS, closing down DP centres fast, and dealing with bogus claims much faster.

But I am not "hostile" to these people, I simply want the law applied to them, fast.

I'm sure many of them are lovely people, but they are bogus AS.

ghost of ireland past

It is obvious that people in power in Ireland are afraid of alternative opinions.

Charlie Flanagan is desperately trying to introduce hate speech legislation to prevent discussion of certain policies. The government know their policies are unpopular and they want no discussion.


We can have freedom of trade with other countries without having freedom of movement of people. That is obvious.

Borders were fine and dandy up until about 15 years ago. Now they are the devil apparently.

Clearly politicians are trying to impose a global order on their countries. The problem is they don't have a mandate.

It's not all countries anyway. It's only a few in the west. China is the future, however much we may dislike that.

topper75

ghost of ireland past wrote: »

What is our national identity?

Bungalows, hurling, pints, saying 'Jaysus'.

Don't like it? Leave.