Why are the Irish generally superficial?

bullpost

I'm guessing the OP on this forum has finally met a bunch of Irish who are not superficial. Prone to being trolled, yes, but not superficial

partyguinness

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

Oooh, did I hit a nerve? Lol.

And I only discussed the most recent attrocities caused by your countrymen. I haven't even touched on the crap that went on in the Ivory Coast, Ghana, SA and other African countries. Just a bit of casual slavery, rape, murder and general scumbaggery for hundreds of years. A truely bloody and disgusting history. I certainly wouldn't be proud to be Dutch. It's also easy to see where the Dutch attitude comes from, a sense of entitlement and "better than thou" mentality which has survived through the ages and is alive and well in modern Netherlands.

Also, you are wrong on all assumptions. Generally, Dutch people are not very nice, so it's very very very easy to meet a lot of Dutch people and not like a single one.

On the other hand, anywhere I have travelled to, people always comment on how lovely Irish people are and how they love my country.

Don't forget the brave Dutch UN Peacekeepers in the Balkans in 1995.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/28/dutch-soldiers-let-300-muslims-die-in-bosnian-war-court-rules

But the OP does not have much time for the Muslims anyway so this is true to form.

machaseh

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

Oooh, did I hit a nerve? Lol.

And I only discussed the most recent attrocities caused by your countrymen. I haven't even touched on the crap that went on in the Ivory Coast, Ghana, SA and other African countries. Just a bit of casual slavery, rape, murder and general scumbaggery for hundreds of years. A truely bloody and disgusting history. I certainly wouldn't be proud to be Dutch. It's also easy to see where the Dutch attitude comes from, a sense of entitlement and "better than thou" mentality which has survived through the ages and is alive and well in modern Netherlands.

Also, you are wrong on all assumptions. Generally, Dutch people are not very nice, so it's very very very easy to meet a lot of Dutch people and not like a single one.

On the other hand, anywhere I have travelled to, people always comment on how lovely Irish people are and how they love my country.

Even if my very own grandfather were Adolf H1tler, not much sense blaming us for it now is there.

It's completely off topic compared to the point I was making in the OP.

machaseh

RWCNT wrote: »

I'm not seeing how any of that relates to being superficial at all to be honest. You seem to be saying we're a simple folk, but that's not really what superficial means. I appreciate that English is your second language and a darn sight etter than my Dutch though.

English is my third language, I grew up with Dutch and Portuguese (as I have family in Brazil).

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Plenty of Dutch people have emigrated to north America over the centuries... in fact they landed there almost before anyone else, and certainly long before any significant numbers of Irish went there...

And yet, just look how much Irish culture has influenced that continent compared with Dutch culture... Everywhere we go, we value our culture history and traditions... while at the same time embracing the culture that exists in that new land too. I don't think it's merely a coincidence that so many people are proud of their Irish roots pretty much anywhere we go...

Much smaller nation, we never had an empire, we arrived late to the party... and yet we still managed to have a much greater cultural influence on an entire continent than the Dutch... just saying... draw your own conclusions!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

machaseh wrote: »

Even if my very own grandfather were Adolf H1tler, not much sense blaming us for it now is there.

It's completely off topic compared to the point I was making in the OP.

No no mate, we are making sweeping generalizations, it's literally what the thread is about. Your entire post is one big generalization. At least I included facts in my post

Not blaming anybody, just pointing out your colorful history. Maybe you would want to look at that yourself before passing judgement on others. I mean, you have the audacity to lecture an entire country based on your limited and quite sheltered experience, don't you think that's ironic?

the Dutch east India trading company was close to an empire FFS!! oldenbarnevelt shower of hungry war mongers for hire!
Statistically you are the tallest people in the world, so you basically have your head in the clouds most days, figuratively and literally nobody is on your level and you cannot wait to tell everyone in the room about you're great engineering prowess.

I'll take superficial if it's going thanks

machaseh

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Plenty of Dutch people have emigrated to north America over the centuries... in fact they landed there almost before anyone else, and certainly long before any significant numbers of Irish went there...

And yet, just look how much Irish culture has influenced that continent compared with Dutch culture... Everywhere we go, we value our culture history and traditions... while at the same time embracing the culture that exists in that new land too. I don't think it's merely a coincidence that so many people are proud of their Irish roots pretty much anywhere we go...

Much smaller nation, we never had an empire, we arrived late to the party... and yet we still managed to have a much greater cultural influence on an entire continent than the Dutch... just saying... draw your own conclusions!

How many americans actually know how to speak Irish?

dancingqueen

machaseh wrote: »

How many americans actually know how to speak Irish?

Who built America?

machaseh

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

No no mate, we are making sweeping generalizations, it's literally what the thread is about. Your entire post is one big generalization. At least I included facts in my post

Not blaming anybody, just pointing out your colorful history. Maybe you would want to look at that yourself before passing judgement on others. I mean, you have the audacity to lecture an entire country based on your limited and quite sheltered experience, don't you think that's ironic?

Again, I fail to see how the history of my country is relevant in a thread about the superficiality of the Irish people. Even if all my ancestors where bloody murderers and war criminals, I don't see how it is relevant to the point of the thread. I myself am not a war criminal, slaver or murderer, so even if me very own grandfather were one, what is the relevance?

elefant

It's probably just what you're used to being different to what you're experiencing now, and nothing to do with Irish people being less cultured or superficial or otherwise.

I've lived in the Netherlands for close to a decade now. I haven't maintained close relationships with any Dutch people, and don't really have any desire to. For while I made an effort. I find there's a bit of an inferiority complex at play when Irish people think of immigrant life in modern times, like you're not doing it properly unless you leave some of your Irishness at the door and adopt the customs of your new home, and don't think of darkening the door of an Irish pub.

But I've become more comfortable with the fact that most of my close connections here are Irish and British for a reason: I just get on better with them than I do with Dutch people. I find them generally more fun, better humoured, more open, more interesting and more genuine than Dutch people. And this is likely because, of course, I have far more in common with them.

But that's just my personal preference. It could probably be inversely the same for you. Just lose some of the negativity towards where you're living and the people around you, and find your own niche in Dublin. I love the Netherlands, I love the way of life in the Netherlands, and I'm not overly enamoured by Dutch people without needing to slate them as a collective. It suits me fine.

SozBbz

machaseh wrote: »

How many americans actually know how to speak Irish?

Not to bring up our old friends the Brits again, but they started wiping out the Irish Language as early as 1695, so by the time it came to emigrating to America, that wasn't really on the cards.

I suggest your vast amount of time spent online might be better spent learning something?

SozBbz

machaseh wrote: »

Again, I fail to see how the history of my country is relevant in a thread about the superficiality of the Irish people. Even if all my ancestors where bloody murderers and war criminals, I don't see how it is relevant to the point of the thread. I myself am not a war criminal, slaver or murderer, so even if me very own grandfather were one, what is the relevance?

You're being insulting and offensive, yet apparently don't like being insulted or offended yourself... Interesting.

machaseh

elefant wrote: »

It's probably just what you're used to being different to what you're experiencing now, and nothing to do with Irish people being less cultured or superficial or otherwise.

I've lived in the Netherlands for close to a decade now. I haven't maintained close relationships with any Dutch people, and don't really have any desire to. For while I made an effort. I find there's a bit of an inferiority complex at play when Irish people think of immigrant life in modern times, like you're not doing it properly unless you leave some of your Irishness at the door and adopt the customs of your new home, and don't think of darkening the door of an Irish pub.

But I've become more comfortable with the fact that most of close connections here are Irish and British for a reason: I just get on better with them than I do with Dutch people. I find them generally more fun, better humoured, more open, more interesting and more genuine than Dutch people. And this is likely because, of course, I have far more in common with them.

But that's just my personal preference. It could probably be inversely the same for you. Just lose some of the negativity towards where you're living and the people around you, and find your own niche in Dublin. I love the Netherlands, I love the way of life in the Netherlands, and I'm not overly enamoured by Dutch people without needing to slate them as a collective. It suits me fine.

My most important question here though is: do you have fluent Dutch?

Because you not getting on with Dutch people if you haven't acquired fluent Dutch in all those years, then there's the reason why you are not getting on with them. Even though most Dutch people have fluent English (like myself), you will not make true friends without learning the language.

If you did in fact learn fluent dutch and still dont get on with dutch people: I mean fair play to you. Dutch people have a very specific directness and bluntness that not everybody likes. No hard feelings.

Dog day

MMXX wrote: »

I have been wondering to myself, whether or not the OP is a troll, or not. I can not say for sure, it is very, very difficult to tell.

If he is indeed a troll, then he is - simply put, a w*****.

If he is not a troll, then... he too, is very simply put - a w*****.

Whatever the case may be, he is a w***** - of that only, can we be sure. A w*****. Not because he is a troll - certainly not because he is Dutch, indeed... he is a w*****, only - because his being, the very essence of who he is, deep down inside, troll or sincere, inflammatory, antagonising Dutchman - dictates that he could never possibly be, anything but - a w*****.

Hi MMXX, though I simply can’t bring myself to use the horrendous three letter acronym I do have to confirm that you’ve literally made me laugh out loud here! A true big belly laugh!

Go raibh mile maith agat.

machaseh

SozBbz wrote: »

You're being insulting and offensive, yet apparently don't like being insulted or offended yourself... Interesting.

You aren't insulting me at all. You are on about the wrongdoings of the ancestors of the Dutch people ,and while some of the things you say aren't historically correct entirely, many of them in fact are historically correct, little point in denying that. But even so, I fail to see the relevance of the wrongdoings of the dutch people of the past to this thread.

dancingqueen

machaseh wrote: »

My most important question here though is: do you have fluent Dutch?

Because you not getting on with Dutch people if you haven't acquired fluent Dutch in all those years, then there's the reason why you are not getting on with them. Even though most Dutch people have fluent English (like myself), you will not make true friends without learning the language.

If you did in fact learn fluent dutch and still dont get on with dutch people: I mean fair play to you. Dutch people have a very specific directness and bluntness that not everybody likes. No hard feelings.

This is what's called "Dutchsplaining"

:pac:

jimgoose

dancingqueen wrote: »

This is what's called "Dutchsplaining"

:pac:

You have to pass them on the left.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

machaseh wrote: »

Again, I fail to see how the history of my country is relevant in a thread about the superficiality of the Irish people. Even if all my ancestors where bloody murderers and war criminals, I don't see how it is relevant to the point of the thread. I myself am not a war criminal, slaver or murderer, so even if me very own grandfather were one, what is the relevance?

Obviously :rolleyes:

Do you not realise how stupid it is to come to an Irish website and as such a stupid question and mention a load of stupid generalizations? It just reinforces a lot of preconceptions people have of the Dutch.

machaseh wrote: »

My most important question here though is: do you have fluent Dutch?

Because you not getting on with Dutch people if you haven't acquired fluent Dutch in all those years, then there's the reason why you are not getting on with them. Even though most Dutch people have fluent English (like myself), you will not make true friends without learning the language.

Why would speaking fluent Dutch make things easier? Over 90% of Dutch people claim to be able to converse in English. Language is not a blocker here, stop looking for excuses.

If you did in fact learn fluent dutch and still dont get on with dutch people: I mean fair play to you. Dutch people have a very specific directness and bluntness that not everybody likes. No hard feelings.

A very political way of describing an arsehole.

partyguinness

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

No no mate, we are making sweeping generalizations, it's literally what the thread is about. Your entire post is one big generalization. At least I included facts in my post

Not blaming anybody, just pointing out your colorful history. Maybe you would want to look at that yourself before passing judgement on others. I mean, you have the audacity to lecture an entire country based on your limited and quite sheltered experience, don't you think that's ironic?

Careful now. I made the same point about gays being superficial and just living to party i.e. a crass sweeping generalization. OP didn't like that and reported me for being homophobic....irony totally lost on him...:rolleyes:

elefant

machaseh wrote: »

My most important question here though is: do you have fluent Dutch?

Because you not getting on with Dutch people if you haven't acquired fluent Dutch in all those years, then there's the reason why you are not getting on with them. Even though most Dutch people have fluent English (like myself), you will not make true friends without learning the language.

If you did in fact learn fluent dutch and still dont get on with dutch people: I mean fair play to you. Dutch people have a very specific directness and bluntness that not everybody likes. No hard feelings.

I don't have fluent Dutch. My language skills are okay (certainly better than most anglophone immigrants here, which isn't saying a huge amount) but similar to most Irish people living in Ireland and their poor Irish language skills, I don't have any real incentive to push myself beyond a certain level.

I work with Dutch people, I've studied with Dutch people, I live every day surrounded by Dutch people who speak English just as well as I do, but I don't feel any compulsion to spend any personal time with them. Being fluent in the language would certainly cast the social net wider I suppose, but a deeper engagement with Dutch social life doesn't hold any appeal to me really. I have no need for it.

Dyr

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

Obviously :rolleyes:

Do you not realise how stupid it is to come to an Irish website and as such a stupid question and mention a load of stupid generalizations? It just reinforces a lot of preconceptions people have of the Dutch.

I don't have any preconceptions of the Dutch in the same was I don't have any preconceptions of Exeter

In the intimable words of Malcom Tucker Esq:

"I'll tell you exactly what people say about you. **** all! People have got no ****ing opinion about you. You're like ****ing Special K or ****ing The Moody Blues. Actually, you're ****ing white noise in the background"

KiKi III

I haven’t read the whole thread but I don’t understand how your visual impairment is stopping you from exploring Ireland.

Galway, Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Belfast (among others) are all a fairly short train journey away. They would offer a rich mix of music, scenery, history, and culture.

Lots of Irish people are deeply interested in politics and current affairs. It would be a regular topic of conversation amongst my friends. It’s even evident here on boards.

And I’ve never, ever heard someone blame the Brits for our health service..

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

machaseh wrote: »

My most important question here though is:

I don't think any of your questions are that important tbh...

You seem quite obtuse, and appear to have already made your mind up on this subject before you started this thread.

greenspurs

Is this thread not closed yet ?

Obvious trolling and baiting.

Well done to all for not getting completely ballistic with this gombeen….

partyguinness

OP,

Why don't you bring yourself along to a Boards night out?

machaseh

elefant wrote: »

I don't have fluent Dutch. My language skills are okay (certainly better than most anglophone immigrants here, which isn't saying a huge amount) but similar to how most Irish people living in Ireland and their poor Irish language skills, I don't have any real incentive to push myself beyond a certain level.

I work with Dutch people, I've studied with Dutch people, I live every day surrounded by Dutch people who speak English just as well as I do, but I don't feel any compulsion to spend any personal time with them. Being fluent in the language would certainly cast the social net wider I suppose, but a deeper engagement with Dutch social life doesn't hold any appeal to me really. I have no need for it.

Yeah then no wonder thaat you have no Dutch friends. Although we indeed have fluent english, if you come to a party with only Dutch people we'd all have to switch to english just for you which most Dutch people would find annoying, hence you might often not be invited for those kinds of things.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Since you don't like my references to your countries past trade in people, literally, they traded people for goods/momey. Here's a couple of generalizations I have enountered over the years.

Dutch people cannot drive. Your countrymen are constantly causing havoc on the Autobahn. It's like you enter an entirely new world and have no idea how to behave. Load up the car so you can't see out of it and stick to the middle lane making sure to keep your speed between 100Kmph and 120Kmph.

Heading on holidays? Make sure you only go to a Dutch campsite and resturaunts filled with only Dutch. Bring your Dutch beer and Dutch food and then tell everybody back home that you had a great time on your Dutch themed foreign holiday.

Lets not mention how frugal the Dutch can be and their odd obsession with voyerism... incredibly strange.

Man Germans are so much nicer in comparison to the Dutch, that's saying a lot.

machaseh

KiKi III wrote: »

I haven’t read the whole thread but I don’t understand how your visual impairment is stopping you from exploring Ireland.

Galway, Cork, Kerry, Waterford and Belfast (among others) are all a fairly short train journey away. They would offer a rich mix of music, scenery, history, and culture.

Lots of Irish people are deeply interested in politics and current affairs. It would be a regular topic of conversation amongst my friends. It’s even evident here on boards.

And I’ve never, ever heard someone blame the Brits for our health service..

I often go to Galway and yes I do like galway, same for Belfast to a lesser extent. Cork was grand the one time I was there. But where in Kerry could I conceivably go without a car? And what can I do in waterford other than eat a Blaa bread?

jimgoose

machaseh wrote: »

Yeah then no wonder thaat you have no Dutch friends. Although we indeed have fluent english, if you come to a party with only Dutch people we'd all have to switch to english just for you which most Dutch people would find annoying, hence you might often not be invited for those kinds of things.

I have an old mate who's Dutch. When he posts in Dutch on FB I often reply (especially if I have a few pints on board) telling him that his keyboard is broken again. Drives him nuts, I think it's uproariously funny, Dutch is all oost blugel fleem zjvinn vaan arse!! :pac: