Why are the Irish generally superficial?

ohnonotgmail

machaseh wrote: »

You are saying that there is a wide variety of proper trad in dublin, yet when I ask you where it is you won't give a straight answer and you continue with racist bollix of that I should just leave the country (even though I'm probably paying more taxes than you are).

Ah, the superficiality of the Irish...

how much effort would it take you to find where trad music is being played in dublin tonight? the answer is not a lot. a quick google of "trad music dublin tonight" will give you plenty of options. From that can i surmise that all dutch people are intellectually lazy?

Seamai

machaseh wrote: »

You basically just confirmed literally all of the points in my OP there. Wow. For example the Dutch girl in that house share sounds lovely, she wants to organize nice meals and keep the place clean and tidy. How could you not like that ?!

Sadly, this 'different circles' you are talking about often involves not many Irish people but mostly expats. And I find that a shame, because I really DO want to integrate more in the society of this country. I do not want to be stuck in my 'expat bubble'. Because I always criticize people in the Netherlands who stay in their expat bubble; of course in the Netherlands we DO have our own language and I also find many expats not bothering to learn it. Now you cannot possibly blame me for not having irish if the irish don't speak it anyway, at least I have proper English.

My partner speaks fluent Irish, when he moved here he spent his first 10 years working for a firm in a gaeltacht area so it was important he spoke it, we tend to lapse in and out of it, all my nephews (and there are quite a few) are being educated in Irish (some are now in secondary Irish schools) so we tend to mix both languages in our extended family.

machaseh

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how much effort would it take you to find where trad music is being played in dublin tonight? the answer is not a lot. a quick google of "trad music dublin tonight" will give you plenty of options. From that can i surmise that all dutch people are intellectually lazy?

I prefer to get tips from actual Irish people and word of mouth rather than google or facebook if there's a gig on somewhere and go by me lonesome. You tend to get much, much better results that way. Call me old fashioned.

Yes I fully realize that if I google for 2 seconds I get a list like this one:

https://dublinsessions.ie/genre/traditional/

But which one is to be avoided? Which one is good and worth going all the way to say swords for? I wouldn't know.

BarryD2

machaseh wrote: »

The conversations is where the superficiality prevails though. Most irish people that I met have little if any knowledge of the Irish language, for example....

Well you're on the nail there. But why would you think otherwise? Sure Irish died as a general spoken language in Leinster two to three centuries ago.

You need to distinguish between aspiration and reality when it comes to people here

ohnonotgmail

machaseh wrote: »

I prefer to get tips from actual Irish people and word of mouth rather than google or facebook if there's a gig on somewhere and go by me lonesome. You tend to get much, much better results that way. Call me old fashioned.

Yes I fully realize that if I google for 2 seconds I get a list like this one:

https://dublinsessions.ie/genre/traditional/

But which one is to be avoided? Which one is good and worth going all the way to say swords for? I wouldn't know.

The first result you get back is O'Donoghues on Merrion Row. you cant go wrong with that. All the best musicians have played there.

machaseh

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The first result you get back is O'Donoghues on Merrion Row. you cant go wrong with that. All the best musicians have played there.

I'll check it out one of these days thanks a mil

gozunda

machaseh wrote: »

You basically just confirmed literally all of the points in my OP there. Wow. For example the Dutch girl in that house share sounds lovely, she wants to organize nice meals and keep the place clean and tidy. How could you not like that ?!
Sadly, this 'different circles' you are talking about often involves not many Irish people but mostly expats. And I find that a shame, because I really DO want to integrate more in the society of this country. I do not want to be stuck in my 'expat bubble'. Because I always criticize people in the Netherlands who stay in their expat bubble; of course in the Netherlands we DO have our own language and I also find many expats not bothering to learn it. Now you cannot possibly blame me for not having irish if the irish don't speak it anyway, at least I have proper English.

So let me get this right , you are criticising the local customs, beliefs and language (or at least the way the locals choose to speak it) all the whilst claiming the Dutch never did anything like that and you still want to 'integrate'?

You know what you sound like great craic altogether for a night on the beer ...

dancingqueen

machaseh wrote: »

You are saying that there is a wide variety of proper trad in dublin, yet when I ask you where it is you won't give a straight answer and you continue with racist bollix of that I should just leave the country (even though I'm probably paying more taxes than you are).

Ah, the superficiality of the Irish...

I am not racist. You said you don't like it here, you don't have to stay.

There are random trad sessions in many places, but if you want to see a real one - they're impromptu. Any that you know are there in Dublin, that you go to, there are core musicians that are paid to be there. Not only that, but I am not an entertainment schedule provider.

Regarding taxes, LOL. Think what you want.

sondagefaux

Anyone who describes themselves as an expat rather than as an immigrant has notions, and they're usually gob****es too.

Superficial?

No more than the OP.

mrslancaster

Go Home Paddy Cat!! wrote: »

Has anyone not seen the post earlier on in the humanities forum from someone who moved over a year ago, having a pop at Irish people? That thread was locked earlier today then this pops up after. This has to be another wind up!

Lived in the Netherlands for several years & OP is the first Dutch person I ever heard referring to their country as Holland (opening post). In my experience that is what other nationalities say. That could be just me though

machaseh

mrslancaster wrote: »

Lived in the Netherlands for several years & OP is the first Dutch person I ever heard referring to their country as Holland (opening post). In my experience that is what other nationalities say. That could be just me though

Most people don't really care about the ol Holland versus the Netherlands distinction.

Where I'm originally from is Zeeland, and not a part of Holland. Where I lived for 7 years is, in fact, in Holland though.

partyguinness

sondagefaux wrote: »

Anyone who describes themselves as an expat rather than as an immigrant has notions, and they're usually gob****es too.

Superficial?

No more than the OP.

This point has been levied against the English.

The English in say Spain, are 'Ex Pats' in the English media but anyone moving to England from aboard are 'immigrants'...:rolleyes:

partyguinness

machaseh wrote: »

and you continue with racist bollix of that I should just leave the country (even though I'm probably paying more taxes than you are).

Ah, the superficiality of the Irish...

An incel working in a call centre? Doubtful..;)

gozunda

machaseh wrote: »

Most people don't really care about the ol Holland versus the Netherlands distinction.Where I'm originally from is Zeeland, and not a part of Holland. Where I lived for 7 years is, in fact, in Holland though.

For someone from "Holland" you dont seem to know much about your native(?) country

Holland Officially Changed its Name to the Netherlands...

Institutions, local authorities, universities, private companies and the media have to use the name Netherlands since the beginning of the year. The government believes the measure will allow the country to get rid of its image in a drug and prostitution setting

https://m.novinite.com/articles/202478/Holland+Officially+Changed+its+Name+to+the+Netherlands

Nothing like an old name change to try and change image problems eh - Windscale and Sellafield cone to mind ...

mrslancaster

machaseh wrote: »

Most people don't really care about the ol Holland versus the Netherlands distinction..

my experience was not that. Anyone who called the country Holland was told quick smart they were wrong.

As I'm sure it would here also if visitors/immigrants started to call Ireland by the name of one of our provinces.

dvdman1

Change the people you socialise with....all they want to talk about is trivia, talk with older people.

For the record ive never met a nice Dutch person
Why are Dutch people so rude arrogant and nasty and are cock like the English? Maybe im stereotyping based on my experiences?

Dog day

machaseh wrote: »

You are saying that there is a wide variety of proper trad in dublin, yet when I ask you where it is you won't give a straight answer and you continue with racist bollix of that I should just leave the country (even though I'm probably paying more taxes than you are).

Ah, the superficiality of the Irish...

Well OP, I’m normally loathe to entertain those whom I suspect are either trolling or being deliberately obtuse but I’ll proceed with caution here & enter the fray.

The above post from you is infact both condescending & racist. Why do you assume you’re likely to be paying more taxes than the poster you’re responding to?! Equally it would seem you’re only spending time with a particular demographic of Irish people which could be a clue to the impression you’re getting (the veracity of which I’m still doubting).

If you choose to live in Ireland, {you’re of course most welcome}, we as a people are scattered across the earth & I myself have lived abroad & have been privileged to meet people from other countries only delighted to share insights with me as most people have some level of pride as to their Nations.

Please do this country the credit of fact checking before you make such sweeping statements.

Ireland has a rich & colourful history & if you just scratched the surface you would be enlightened as to why we’re on occasion cautious about discussing politics {for example} with those we fear may not have an understanding of our cultural identity as an invaded nation & all of the complex manifestations that has for past generations & indeed generations to come. We are no different to other colonised/invaded nations in this regard.

As to options for socialising, we infact have a particularly impressive appetite for arts & culture.

May I suggest you at the very least do begin to Google options regularly & most certainly don’t continue to rely on your seemingly somewhat limited group of Irish companions & perhaps then make judgements on our land, identity & its people based on same.

It’s hardly playing smart with your own time to not try to discover areas & people that interest you!

partyguinness

mrslancaster wrote: »

my experience was not that. Anyone who called the country Holland was told quick smart they were wrong.

As I'm sure it would here also if visitors/immigrants started to call Ireland by the name of one of our provinces.

I have been to Dutch international football games in the Netherlands where I have bought scarfs locally etc and they say "Hup Holland" and not the Netherlands. It seems that they are quite relaxed about it really.

Fr_Dougal

machaseh wrote: »

Everybody is saying that 60k is a 'low wage' in Dublin, meanwhile I'm here on only just more than half that

machaseh wrote: »

You are saying that there is a wide variety of proper trad in dublin, yet when I ask you where it is you won't give a straight answer and you continue with racist bollix of that I should just leave the country (even though I'm probably paying more taxes than you are).

You’re not doing yourself any favours...

machaseh

dvdman1 wrote: »

Change the people you socialise with....all they want to talk about is trivia, talk with older people.

For the record ive never met a nice Dutch person
Why are Dutch people so rude arrogant and nasty and are cock like the English? Maybe im stereotyping based on my experiences?

It is true that many Dutch people can be direct and very self-secure, to the point of appearing to the Irish as rude/arrogant. But please don't compare us to the English. We fought many wars against the English, just like the Irish did. The only difference is that we won in the end.

partyguinness

machaseh wrote: »

It is true that many Dutch people can be direct and very self-secure, to the point of appearing to the Irish as rude/arrogant. But please don't compare us to the English. We fought many wars against the English, just like the Irish did. The only difference is that we won in the end.

The Dutch love the English. I have never been to a more Anglophile country.

In fact I think they secretly want to be English if it gets them away from the Germans.

Dog day

machaseh wrote: »

It is true that many Dutch people can be direct and very self-secure, to the point of appearing to the Irish as rude/arrogant. But please don't compare us to the English. We fought many wars against the English, just like the Irish did. The only difference is that we won in the end.

Another prejudiced statement from you OP.

Please, do yourself a favour & invest your energy in some genuine research instead of wasting both our time & yours with this verbal tennis.

Enjoy the true Ireland when you discover it!

machaseh

partyguinness wrote: »

The Dutch love the English. I have never been to a more Anglophile country.

In fact I think they secretly want to be English if it gets them away from the Germans.

We don't love the English. We just prefer them to Germans and the French.

machaseh

Yareli Low Tightwad wrote: »

You know, I have met a lot of Dutch people in my time

I very very very very very highly doubt that. You're probably one of those Dubs who never come out of dublin and would only go on a vacation to Florida, Las vegas or spain once every 5 years. Because otherwise you wouldn't have posted all that nonsense about war crimes and the like.

partyguinness

machaseh wrote: »

We don't love the English. We just prefer them to Germans and the French.

No you love them. Admit it.

It's only a matter of time before your application to become 'Netherlandshire' or 'East Suffolk' is lodged with the UN for approval.

MMXX

I have been wondering to myself, whether or not the OP is a troll, or not. I can not say for sure, it is very, very difficult to tell.

If he is indeed a troll, then he is - simply put, a w*****.

If he is not a troll, then... he too, is very simply put - a w*****.

Whatever the case may be, he is a w***** - of that only, can we be sure. A w*****. Not because he is a troll - certainly not because he is Dutch, indeed... he is a w*****, only - because his being, the very essence of who he is, deep down inside, troll or sincere, inflammatory, antagonising Dutchman - dictates that he could never possibly be, anything but - a w*****.

partyguinness

^^^^^

and don't forget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel

RWCNT

machaseh wrote: »

So as a background I moved over here from Holland a bit more than 2 years ago. What I have noticed a lot with Irish people is a prevailing sense of superficiality, and I wonder why this is so. I'll explain this a bit more below.

For example, the go-to activity for Irish people would be to go out drinking at the pub. Now there's nothing wrong with that, in the Netherlands we like our pints too. But in the pub you already start noticing the prevailing cultural superficiality of many Irish folks as compared to the Netherlands.

For example, eating out to get a proper meal before going to the pub seems to be uncommon. Whenever I'd propose something like that it'd be like 'nah im broke'. Even if it's been payday. It seems like Irish people just want to spend their money on alcohol rather than on a total, more enjoyable experience. I'm not saying they never get food, but it'd be more something like a cheapo pizza in the pub, maybe some chips, or perhaps some (bad quality) kebab or go to the chipper afterwards rather than do something nice in the food department.

The choice of drink is also generally not interesting, most Irish people would go for the coors light, Heineken (which by the way is considered the worst 'standard' beer in the Netherlands, yes I know it's from our country), and more importantly most would stick to only one type of beer for the night. Some lads with a bit more money would , fair play to them, go for the more expensive whiskeys but that's more of an exception than the rule.

The conversations is where the superficiality prevails though. Most irish people that I met have little if any knowledge of the Irish language, for example. Politics generally seems to be an absolutely taboo subject, while it would be normal for us to talk about that back home. They all seem to vote for FF/FG just because their parents did without thinking twice of it.

There also seems to be a general lack of interest in culture, such as the arts or music.

I wonder why Irish people are so superficial. Or is this just a Dublin thing? I just feel as if people back home are a lot more interesting in many aspects.

I'm not seeing how any of that relates to being superficial at all to be honest. You seem to be saying we're a simple folk, but that's not really what superficial means. I appreciate that English is your second language and a darn sight etter than my Dutch though.

Seamai

machaseh wrote: »

We don't love the English. We just prefer them to Germans and the French.

It must stick in your countrymen's craw that your royal family with it's German roots has by and large married Germans for most of it 450 years starting with your "Father of the Fatherland" (a German) right down to the current king's father, you can dress it up all you like but in my books they're German with a bit of Dutch window dressing, a quick look at the history books show that in in fact the case (but then this is the case for many European royal families).

I've noticed on my trips to the Netherlands that you make fun of your precious royal family at your peril. I was stiffly admonished a few years back for asking if the then Princess Maxima was huge, (of course they didn't get the joke), the family that your countrymen love and respect so blindly had little respect for it's subjects when they got into bed with the enemy generation after generation.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

machaseh wrote: »

I very very very very very highly doubt that. You're probably one of those Dubs who never come out of dublin and would only go on a vacation to Florida, Las vegas or spain once every 5 years. Because otherwise you wouldn't have posted all that nonsense about war crimes and the like.

Oooh, did I hit a nerve? Lol.

And I only discussed the most recent attrocities caused by your countrymen. I haven't even touched on the crap that went on in the Ivory Coast, Ghana, SA and other African countries. Just a bit of casual slavery, rape, murder and general scumbaggery for hundreds of years. A truely bloody and disgusting history. I certainly wouldn't be proud to be Dutch. It's also easy to see where the Dutch attitude comes from, a sense of entitlement and "better than thou" mentality which has survived through the ages and is alive and well in modern Netherlands.

Also, you are wrong on all assumptions. Generally, Dutch people are not very nice, so it's very very very easy to meet a lot of Dutch people and not like a single one.

On the other hand, anywhere I have travelled to, people always comment on how lovely Irish people are and how they love my country.