Medical and Nursing University numbers

OK simple question:

Do we have enough university places for medics?
Given the apparent shortfall of doctors/nurses why is there not a drive to have more graduates?

When was the last time that a university increased its medical/nursing school numbers, a good amount?

Should the larger ITs and now the TUs be granted permission to develop medical schools of their own?

None of these are loaded questions, I just don't know and curious as to why we seemingly don't seem to be training enough to cope with losses (retirement and emigration)

thomasdylan

Cork_exile wrote: »

OK simple question:

Do we have enough university places for medics?
Given the apparent shortfall of doctors/nurses why is there not a drive to have more graduates?

When was the last time that a university increased its medical/nursing school numbers, a good amount?

Should the larger ITs and now the TUs be granted permission to develop medical schools of their own?

None of these are loaded questions, I just don't know and curious as to why we seemingly don't seem to be training enough to cope with losses (retirement and emigration)

Ireland trains lots of doctors. There are a lot of newly qualified doctors who leave Ireland after a year. Far better lifestyle, staffing levels and a more straightforward career path in other countries. 24 and 36 hour shifts are still a thing and most hospital based doctors in a surgical specialty will do at least 60 hours a week. Ireland can be quite litigious as well.

People often say that why should doctors be able to leave Ireland after a few years. The HSE is breaching EWTD rules in massively understaffed hospitals, why should someone have to stay and knock a few months or years off of their life working for the HSE. And Irish medical students courses are pretty much subsidised by non EU medical students who pay 50k a year.

Doc07

We train plenty of medical students. All universities have increased places since the 2000s. Although major part of the increase is non EU students who pay full fees (and only minority will work in Ireland) there are lots of places for Irish/EU students.
Keeping them here is a different story....

nkl12xtw5goz70

Cork_exile wrote: »

Given the apparent shortfall of doctors/nurses why is there not a drive to have more graduates?

Ireland actually has the second-highest number of nurses per capita in the EU. It has nearly twice as many nurses per capita as the UK. And yet the media keeps harping on about the nursing shortage in Ireland.

blanch152

We pay our top consultants too much for the small amount of public work that they do.

We overwork our junior doctors instead causing them to leave the country, when a slightly better paid job with better working conditions would keep them here and be cheaper than the top consultants.

Our nursing situation is a joke. Inefficiencies and fixed shifts ensure that there are hours and hours when working nurses have little or nothing to do, but there are times when they are completely overstretched and the system breaks down leading to backlogs, crowded A&E and waiting lists. Not to mention that if you get into a ward, there will be too many nurses and not enough carestaff.

Goldengirl

blanch152 wrote: »

We pay our top consultants too much for the small amount of public work that they do.

We overwork our junior doctors instead causing them to leave the country, when a slightly better paid job with better working conditions would keep them here and be cheaper than the top consultants.

Our nursing situation is a joke. Inefficiencies and fixed shifts ensure that there are hours and hours when working nurses have little or nothing to do, but there are times when they are completely overstretched and the system breaks down leading to backlogs, crowded A&E and waiting lists. Not to mention that if you get into a ward, there will be too many nurses and not enough carestaff.

I don't know if you are qualified to make all these sweeping statements, or are just aiming for clickbait, but saying that nurses in our hospitals , are there with nothing to do , for hours at a time is complete bs. And what are you talking about as regards care staff ? Staff nurses give nursing care in most public hospitals. Care assistants are only allowed to give care as directed by RGNs .Are you talking about nursing homes?
Also overstretched nurses leading to backlogs and over crowding in A&E ? Think you've got it a bit jumbled up there 😅

blanch152

Goldengirl wrote: »

I don't know if you are qualified to make all these sweeping statements, or are just aiming for clickbait, but saying that nurses in our hospitals , are there with nothing to do , for hours at a time is complete bs. And what are you talking about as regards care staff ? Staff nurses give nursing care in most public hospitals. Care assistants are only allowed to give care as directed by RGNs .Are you talking about nursing homes?
Also overstretched nurses leading to backlogs and over crowding in A&E ? Think you've got it a bit jumbled up there ��

As has been pointed out on this thread already, we have the second highest number of nurses per capita in Europe. Given we are below average for number of beds per capita, we are most definitely overstaffed with nurses.

I may be wrong on exactly where nurses are underproductive, but there is no doubt from the figures that we use our nursing staff inefficiently, and that means that some of them have little to do at times.

Goldengirl

blanch152 wrote: »

As has been pointed out on this thread already, we have the second highest number of nurses per capita in Europe. Given we are below average for number of beds per capita, we are most definitely overstaffed with nurses.

I may be wrong on exactly where nurses are underproductive, but there is no doubt from the figures that we use our nursing staff inefficiently, and that means that some of them have little to do at times.

Problem with relating beds / nurses per capita is the issue of patients on chairs , trolleys, corridors and not technically in beds who still need care and attention .
That number of nurses per capita "in Europe "is actually a report about per capita in the OECD ,has been discredited repeatedly but some people keep trotting it out every year or so because they don't know any better, or they like to quote something that they think sounds good , even if it's wrong.
Only inefficiencies are over reliance on agency staff which means many regular ward staff are burnt out trying to orient , instruct, and if at all possible delegate to new staff every shift , who unless they work regularly in an area can not do a lot of jobs that qualified staff have to do.

blanch152

Goldengirl wrote: »

Problem with relating beds / nurses per capita is the issue of patients on chairs , trolleys, corridors and not technically in beds who still need care and attention .
That number of nurses per capita "in Europe "is actually a report about per capita in the OECD ,has been discredited repeatedly but some people keep trotting it out every year or so because they don't know any better, or they like to quote something that they think sounds good , even if it's wrong.
Only inefficiencies are over reliance on agency staff which means many regular ward staff are burnt out trying to orient , instruct, and if at all possible delegate to new staff every shift , who unless they work regularly in an area can not do a lot of jobs that qualified staff have to do.

I have never seen it discredited anywhere, but I don't get INMO news.

Goldengirl

blanch152 wrote: »

I have never seen it discredited anywhere, but I don't get INMO news.

I read it in the Times.

0lddog

Original question posed :

Cork_exile wrote: »

OK simple question:

Do we have enough university places for medics?..........

Simple answer : yes we do.