Cohabiting parents

darconio

While waiting for legal advise, I was wondering if somebody could clarify few points for me.
The facts:
- My 18 years cohabitant partner decided to end the relationship
- We have a 17 years old son in receipt of disability allowance since 1 year (learning disabilities, deafness)
- She never contributed to the expenses/attempted to seek employment (our son is in full time education, so plenty of spare time)
- While not legally relevant, she didn't want to give our son my surname (I am the natural father in the birth certificate)

- She pocket the aforementioned allowance and while she partially use it for the well-being of our son (I have always provided for both of them) she mostly use it for herself (went on holiday with her mother and our son for 2 weeks)
- The house we are living in was bought by me (mortgage and full ownership on my name)


She basically would like for me to move out, I keep paying the mortgage/maintenance, while she enjoys her new single life.


I told her that she can forget about it, and since she is the one ending the relationship she should be the one that has to move out...


However I had a look at this page https://www.treoir.ie/groups/cohabiting-parent/ and for some reason I believe I will get shafted: mental!


So my question: can I stand my ground and leverage on the fact that i have ownership of the house?
Can the situation turn in my favor when our son turns 18? and if she finds employment?
I am willing to sell the house and disappear from the country (we are both european non-irish), and I am willing to do that immediately, before she gets ready to counterattack: do I stand any chance?


Very nasty prospective overall, I am willing to maintain our son, but certainly not her, If I have to start a new life I might as well have my back covered with some cash from the house sale

v638sg7k1a92bx

She may be entitled to redress under Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010.

darconio

Matilda Tinkling Poinsettia wrote: »

She may be entitled to redress under Civil Partnership and Certain Rights and Obligations of Cohabitants Act 2010.

Thanks I read that from the above link, to be honest it doesn't seem fair.


I have committed my life to this family, I have provided every commodity, now she wants to end the relationship and she still has to get everything? It seems out of this world....


Can the situation turn in my favor when our son turns 18? and if she finds employment?

AulWan

Disability allowance is not payable for anyone under the age of 16 she could not have been getting disability allowance for your son, you must be are mixing up the allowance for something else possibly Carer's Allowance also if your partner was a full-time Mother at home taking care of your child with a disability for all those years then she was contributing there is more than one ways to contribute towards the family

Lux23

Do you plan to care for your son at home? I think he should be at the core of any decision you make, he shouldn't have to leave his home.

seamus

You are under no obligation to move out, and there are no legal mechanisms she can use to make you move out, especially as you are the sole owner of the property.

Even if she were to go nuclear and get a barring order against you (you'll be surprised what some legal professionals will advise), she still can't force you to leave.

All other options are made awkward by the length of your cohabitation. If you want to sell the house, she may be able to block it in court until your son has finished his education, and make a claim for a certain percentage of the proceeds.

I would suggest getting yourself a solicitor with expertise in this area to go through your options.

Don't leave the house.

darconio

AulWan wrote: »

Disability allowance is not payable for anyone under the age of 16 she could not have been getting disability allowance for your son, you must be are mixing up the allowance for something else possibly Carer's Allowance also if your partner was a full-time Mother at home taking care of your child with a disability for all those years then she was contributing there is more than one ways to contribute towards the family

My son is 17. Let's not get into the conversation of how she cared of our son, to put it simple only in the last 2 years she started receiving allowances because she was in denial about his condition. Only when I put my foot down and decided to follow through we got a result. Also as I mentioned, my son is and was in full time education: she, as many other mothers, had plenty of spare time to start a part time job, perhaps working on the weekend if necessary while I was taking care of our son

Lux23 wrote: »

Do you plan to care for your son at home? I think he should be at the core of any decision you make, he shouldn't have to leave his home.

I am willing to take care of my son (e.g. he can live in the house until he wants), despite the disability he is fully capable of looking after himself

seamus wrote: »

You are under no obligation to move out, and there are no legal mechanisms she can use to make you move out, especially as you are the sole owner of the property.

Even if she were to go nuclear and get a barring order against you (you'll be surprised what some legal professionals will advise), she still can't force you to leave.

All other options are made awkward by the length of your cohabitation. If you want to sell the house, she may be able to block it in court until your son has finished his education, and make a claim for a certain percentage of the proceeds.

I would suggest getting yourself a solicitor with expertise in this area to go through your options.

Don't leave the house.

Thanks that's the bit of information I was looking for, I am willing to wait until he finish his education, however after that am I right assuming that the situation might change? as I won't have any obligation to provide for her

AulWan

OK. I've got your measure now.

Add up 17 years off what full time child care would cost you - that is what your partner contributed - and the rest.

That is not "nothing". And if her manner in looking after your son was not up to your standards, why did you stay in the relationship so long?

Anyways, good luck trying to convince a judge to make her homeless by selling the home out from under her, after 17 years out of the workforce with a disabled minor.

XsApollo

edit Scratch that.

darconio

AulWan wrote: »

OK. I've got your measure now.

Add up 17 years off what full time child care would cost you - that is what your partner contributed - and the rest.

That is not "nothing". And if her manner in looking after your son was not up to your standards, why did you stay in the relationship so long?

Anyways, good luck trying to convince a judge to make her homeless by selling the home out from under her, after 17 years out of the workforce with a disabled minor.

Full time child care? shool starts at 9 until 14:30.... I see you are already taking her side, I am not here to start a fight with you I have already enough debating with my former partner. Looking after OUR son was not up to the the standard required for his condition, pointless to go into details as you don't know them.
I came here looking for advise not certainly to justify my decision or what I want to do or don't want to do, let's not forget that she wants to split the family, not me

AulWan

seamus wrote: »

Even if she were to go nuclear and get a barring order against you (you'll be surprised what some legal professionals will advise), she still can't force you to leave.

A safety or protection order does not require the person to leave, but a barring order does mean the violent partner has to leave. They are literally barred from entering the home. A barring order can be made for up to three years.

Citizens Information: Barring Order

Barring orders are incredibly difficult to get nowadays, so unless there is documented proof of a history of domestic violence, then its very unlikely to happen.

jimmycrackcorm

AulWan wrote: »

OK. I've got your measure now.

Add up 17 years off what full time child care would cost you - that is what your partner contributed - and the rest.

That is not "nothing". And if her manner in looking after your son was not up to your standards, why did you stay in the relationship so long?

Anyways, good luck trying to convince a judge to make her homeless by selling the home out from under her, after 17 years out of the workforce with a disabled minor.

The OP has been providing for them as well as caring so it's not a simple case that it's half and half. She has gotten rent free lodging in that time frame.

Op you'll need a solicitor but by and large you are in a much better position as unless she has contributed to the home, she won't necessarily be entitled to an equal value.

It's your property so there is no incentive to move out. A judge will also ask very plaintive questions about why she is not working seeing as your son is old enough to look after himself.

Your first step should be to try organize mediation, it's what your solicitor will suggest anyway.

AulWan

darconio wrote: »

Full time child care? shool starts at 9 until 14:30.... I see you are already taking her side, I am not here to start a fight with you I have already enough debating with my former partner. Looking after OUR son was not up to the the standard required for his condition, pointless to go into details as you don't know them.
I came here looking for advise not certainly to justify my decision or what I want to do or don't want to do, let's not forget that she wants to split the family, not me

And the best advice I can give you, is to adjust your attitude, because right now you're coming across very badly. Go against her in court with this attitude, and I guarantee the floor will be wiped with you.

This woman was your partner for 18 years, and a mother to your disabled son for 17 years. You are dismissive of her contribution to the family, describing it as nothing, yet she no doubt did all the childcare, all the school runs, ran the home etc during that time. Primary school is 9:00 to 2:30, 183 days of the year. What about after-school, and the other 183 full days of the year?

You may call it your house because your name alone is on the deed, but as someone else posted above, she is entitled to redress and after all these years the laws are in place to protect someone like her from someone like you who would walk away and leave her broke and homeless because she has ended the relationship with you. Thank God there is.

If you'd came on with an attitude of "what can I do, what is fair in this situation" then I'd have been the first to advise you as I am usually very gender neutral in these situations, but your coming on and basically trash talking her and criticising her parenting after 17 years is just wrong. "

I hope the Judge sees it for what it is, and ensures a fair outcome. After all, Ireland is a "no-fault" state when it comes to separation.

seamus

AulWan wrote: »

A safety or protection order does not require the person to leave, but a barring order does mean the violent partner has to leave. They are literally barred from entering the home. A barring order can be made for up to three years.

If the partner against whom the order is made, is the majority or sole owner of the property, they cannot be forced to leave. I think it's unconstitutional.

The barring order in that case will prevent the partner from entering any other property that you may move to.

This only applies to cohabiting couples, not married ones afaik.

Dundalkshelly

Hi darconio you should ask a solicitor if you could sell your house to somebody you really, and I mean really really, trust in your family for eg. to your mother for 100 Euro, correct 100 Euro, of course the house would legally belong to your mother and you could stay in it for minimum rent and as your mothers the "new owner" she could tell your ex to get out, of course at the end its still your house some day when your mother passes away. Give your ex 50 Euro that would be half of the house price. She should be able to find a job, all she's doing is screwing you and that's not fair after all you did for her and the kid. I wonder if that would work out, you should find out, after all I assume your mother doesn't live in Ireland so this might be a possibility to keep your house

blackbox

I don't think you will be able to sell the "family home" without your ex partner's consent.

Get legal advice.

howamidifferent

Revenue would never let you sell a house for €100

Dundalkshelly

howamidifferent wrote: »

Revenue would never let you sell a house for €100

Would be worth to find that out, why not? Its his house he can do what ever he wants with it :cool:

mlem123

I agree it might be best to wait until your son in 18 and out of secondary education. Still, confirm this with a solicitor. You do have rights too and since your son is nearly an adult that'll be taken into account.

Saying that, being a SAHM to a child or children has value. She may not have gotten a wage but it means she's contributed to the house. If you think she made such a dogs dinner of parenting you could have ended it a long time ago, but you didn't. Staying at home doesn't mean she was in pajamas watching Jeremy Kyle all day laughing about her "free rent". She is fully entitled to equity in the house as you can't kick her out and leave her homeless after an 18 year relationship.

If you did sell up as you had mentioned and going back to Europe, would you bring your son with you? Or would he stay with mum? He also may have expected to be home for another few years if he thought he was going to college etc

mlem123

Dundalkshelly wrote: »

Would be worth to find that out, why not? Its his house he can do what ever he wants with it :cool:

Terrible advice. You'd pay tax on the market price, no matter how much was paid.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/moving-to-or-from-ireland/buying-transferring-or-selling-property.aspx

seamus

Dundalkshelly wrote: »

Would be worth to find that out, why not? Its his house he can do what ever he wants with it :cool:

Life isn't that simple believe it or not.

If I sell you anything considerably below its market value, Revenue are within their rights to consider the difference to be a gift to you. AKA capital gains.

In your example if you sell your €300k house to your mother for €100, Revenue will consider that to be a gift of €299,900 to your mother and will charge her tax at 33% on it. Which is only logical if you think about it, otherwise there'd be all sorts of scams where people sell cars to eachother for a euro, and stick a brown envelope to the back of the contract.

Dundalkshelly

seamus wrote: »

You are under no obligation to move out, and there are no legal mechanisms she can use to make you move out, especially as you are the sole owner of the property.

Even if she were to go nuclear and get a barring order against you (you'll be surprised what some legal professionals will advise), she still can't force you to leave.

All other options are made awkward by the length of your cohabitation. If you want to sell the house, she may be able to block it in court until your son has finished his education, and make a claim for a certain percentage of the proceeds.

I would suggest getting yourself a solicitor with expertise in this area to go through your options.

Don't leave the house.

Agree DONT leave YOUR house and wait till your son is 18 but seek legal advice just to know your rights in case she comes up with something

Dundalkshelly

Dundalkshelly wrote: »

Agree DONT leave YOUR house and wait till your son is 18 but seek legal advice just to know your rights in case she comes up with something

Anyone raising a special needs child deserves a medal, not eviction. They are a family unit. Not 3 separate unrelated individuals.

C3PO

OP - firstly, do not leave the house and secondly, get legal advice! Whether you like it or not, your ex is most likely entitled to a significant proportion of the sale proceeds if the house is sold!

Thierry

Hi darconio,

Sorry to hear about your marital difficulties.
Reading through this thread and as we do not know about the particular of your situation, the level of care needed for your son, etc.. it is difficult to give you the right advice.

In any case, right or wrong, stay cool, do not get too upset or angry about the situation as it will inevitably leads to further conflicts down the line and higher solicitor fees to solve them (for you as I guess your wife will be entitled to legal aid).

For example trying to guess if you can or not sell the house is a waste of time and energy at this stage. Forget.
Just try to find out what you want, what your wife wants and what your son wants and try the best to arrive to an acceptable solution for the three of you.

Do not get angry, violent or unpleasant at home, as you risk to get over the line of abusive behavior...
On the contrary think and propose workable solutions. Outline the expenses and earnings of the family for the next few years. If you decide to live separately, then one extra item will be to cater for your accommodation (rented or mortgaged) and the solution to sell or not or for your wife working or not working will be put against real numbers.

You may want to use a mediator to negotiate your separation and arrive to an agreement.
What is to be negotiate:
- needs for your child (at least until the age of 23 if he goes to higher education and according to his medical condition)
- needs for each spouses,
- divisions of assets (house, pensions...)

Good luck.