Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

givyjoe

C14N wrote: »

Yeah I suppose you are right, but it's been having us antsy now for days too, and we wish this would just end. I've been trying to focus on work too myself, but it's just very hard to keep my mind on it.

When I say 20k over asking, I didn't mean we just rushed right in with that. We went in at asking price, but were told it was already €15k over at the time, so we bid up to €20k. We really don't want to spend more than we have to either, and that it's getting close to our limit instead of being able to wrap it up for a good bit less is bringing me down a bit too.

We got a bit too optimistic on Friday assuming that doing a €2k increment meant the other party must be close to reaching their own limit, as we haven't seen any bids this small on other properties we've gone for, and that we'd end up having it at a price far lower than our max.

It's really difficult alright, but if you cant focus on work, try something else that will keep your mind occupied - anything at all. You'll drive yourself demented otherwise, learned this after our first bidding war. I soon quit trying to play mind games, or guess what will put the others off. I dont think there's any harm bidding asap after a new bid comes in though. you might still catch their attention before it goes elsewhere and it may indeed put them off if you keep coming back. Still, I wouldn't think too much about it other than bidding what you're willing to/can afford each time.

C14N

brianc27 wrote: »

I had about 70 grand to play around with when bidding on my place, I never bid more then 1 grand per bid, I think its madness to bid any more, you'll end up spending more then you need to.

I considered this early on when we first started bidding, but also thought it would be pretty hard to end it and could end up paying more as a result. People aren't always 100% rational about their own limits. 1000 is small enough on a house of ~€500k that it's easy to imagine people stretching their own budgets past what they planned if that was all it would take.

C14N

givyjoe wrote: »

It's really difficult alright, but if you cant focus on work, try something else that will keep your mind occupied - anything at all. You'll drive yourself demented otherwise, learned this after our first bidding war. I soon quit trying to play mind games, or guess what will put the others off. I dont think there's any harm bidding asap after a new bid comes in though. you might still catch their attention before it goes elsewhere and it may indeed put them off if you keep coming back. Still, I wouldn't think too much about it other than bidding what you're willing to/can afford each time.

Yeah, it might just be heightened cortisol levels making me feel a bit grumpy. Stepping back, I'm sure the other bidders are just as frustrated with us as we are with them. Either way one of us is going to be paying a lot more than we had hoped now. I'd even gotten paranoid thinking I might be bidding against a ghost, and that the EA was chancing his arm a bit because he knew we were keen with the quick replies, because the behaviour seemed so strange, but if this is a thing other people do then that's probably not the case. Honestly, if I was in a position where this was the only house I was looking at and I was in no rush, I'd probably be doing the same thing more or less.

Ace2007

C14N wrote: »

You could just as easily argue the other extreme. Why not just go €100 up each time, or even less still? The reason is that you'd be at it for weeks.

Your right you could, and it's this unregulated nature of property bidding that makes it hard to know what's right.

Why do some increase in 5k's and other's 1k, why not 500 or 200 etc?
Should the EA be telling the seller of bids as and when they come in?
Does an EA have to tell potential buyers what the last bid was if they ask, even if the last bid was rejected? I know of one house that went on market for 400k, bit of 350k was made, and rejected straight away, and a friend of the person who made the offer asked was their any offers and they were told no, is this right??

C14N

Ace2007 wrote: »

Your right you could, and it's this unregulated nature of property bidding that makes it hard to know what's right.

Why do some increase in 5k's and other's 1k, why not 500 or 200 etc?
Should the EA be telling the seller of bids as and when they come in?
Does an EA have to tell potential buyers what the last bid was if they ask, even if the last bid was rejected? I know of one house that went on market for 400k, bit of 350k was made, and rejected straight away, and a friend of the person who made the offer asked was their any offers and they were told no, is this right??

Yes, it would be a lot better to have more transparency. I mean I worried the EA was ghost-bidding because it's actually not that much of a risk for them to do so. They know we're keen, even if they don't know our limit. If they eventually bid up just a bit past it and we say we can't go higher, they could always just say the other party actually pulled out and we're the next in line so now its ours. We'd have no idea after all. At the same time, I think it would be better to have a minimum bid amount of some kind too to move things along, rather than the status quo where the process can be dragged out longer by whoever wants to make the smallest bids. If you were a real troll you could just keep outbidding by €1, although I don't know what would happen if you did.

You'd hope they'd be honest enough not to but the system shouldn't really have to rely on hoping for honesty.

FrankN1

The bank are taking a while to do the valuation, can the loan offer be prepared while this is pending?

Mad_maxx

So an estate near me has had a few houses up for sale recently (the last 6 months). All houses are fairly samey. One sold about 6 months ago for 175k (asking 180). About 3 months ago, one went for 195k (asking 165). About a week ago, another one sold for 195k (asking 175).

One listed this week is asking 225k. It's the first sign of madness that I've seen lately, as things had (from what i could see anyway) started to tame off a bit. I was actually interested in the 225k house, but there's no way would I pay that for the area it's in. Once you go over 200k you get a lot more variety and nicer areas become available. I knew it was coming up for sale before seeing the asking price, and was anticipating that an offer of 195 would probably seal the deal and be in line with other houses here (obviously I was wrong).


(of course it may not sell at all, and i honestly don't think it will at that price, but nonetheless..)

Mad_maxx wrote: »

More than enough for it

Not according to the PPR - it's cheap.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder with regards to Bidx1. Even suggesting that they have someone deliberately upping the bids, despite loads of their properties going for 1 bid and many not selling at all. :rolleyes:

Ace2007

Deleted User wrote: »

So an estate near me has had a few houses up for sale recently (the last 6 months). All houses are fairly samey. One sold about 6 months ago for 175k (asking 180). About 3 months ago, one went for 195k (asking 165). About a week ago, another one sold for 195k (asking 175).

One listed this week is asking 225k. It's the first sign of madness that I've seen lately, as things had (from what i could see anyway) started to tame off a bit. I was actually interested in the 225k house, but there's no way would I pay that for the area it's in. Once you go over 200k you get a lot more variety and nicer areas become available. I knew it was coming up for sale before seeing the asking price, and was anticipating that an offer of 195 would probably seal the deal and be in line with other houses here (obviously I was wrong).


(of course it may not sell at all, and i honestly don't think it will at that price, but nonetheless..)

Think i read some poster here asking what is the lowest offer you could go in at - could you go in at 175k for that house that 225k? does the EA have to go to the seller and tell them or what way does it work?

standardg60

C14N wrote: »

Yes, it would be a lot better to have more transparency. I mean I worried the EA was ghost-bidding because it's actually not that much of a risk for them to do so. They know we're keen, even if they don't know our limit. If they eventually bid up just a bit past it and we say we can't go higher, they could always just say the other party actually pulled out and we're the next in line so now its ours. We'd have no idea after all. At the same time, I think it would be better to have a minimum bid amount of some kind too to move things along, rather than the status quo where the process can be dragged out longer by whoever wants to make the smallest bids. If you were a real troll you could just keep outbidding by €1, although I don't know what would happen if you did.

You'd hope they'd be honest enough not to but the system shouldn't really have to rely on hoping for honesty.

If you've been religiously bidding in 5k increments straightaway you're giving the impression you're not at your limit regardless of whether the EA knows either way. Why not completely change tack with your next bid, wait 24 hours and then increase only by 500, and attach a note explaining that's your limit, you're at your wits end now being outbid on your dream home and just want to secure something to plan and start a family yada yada yada...

EA's don't see anything wrong with not being honest so there's no reason why you should feel bad about indulging in it yourself, it's every one for themselves.

Ace2007

standardg60 wrote: »

If you've been religiously bidding in 5k increments straightaway you're giving the impression you're not at your limit regardless of whether the EA knows either way. Why not completely change tack with your next bid, wait 24 hours and then increase only by 500, and attach a note explaining that's your limit, you're at your wits end now being outbid on your dream home and just want to secure something to plan and start a family yada yada yada...

EA's don't see anything wrong with not being honest so there's no reason why you should feel bad about indulging in it yourself, it's every one for themselves.

Also, I've been told a good trick is to request the EA to tell you in writing each time the bid has gone up - as then there is written proof. I don't actually know if the bids can be inspected by a regulator or anyone???? but people are less likely to lie when it's in writing.

Another is if you hit your limit, and are outbid, but then the EA comes back and says the other bidder has dropped out - try to find out why etc, and then make a fresh offer - which could be 20k or so less - if the other bidder has dropped out - they aren't going to come back in, and also the seller won't want them if they dropped out once before. Often though most people will just pay their last bid, instead of a new refreshed lower bid.

standardg60

Ace2007 wrote: »

Also, I've been told a good trick is to request the EA to tell you in writing each time the bid has gone up - as then there is written proof. I don't actually know if the bids can be inspected by a regulator or anyone???? but people are less likely to lie when it's in writing.

Another is if you hit your limit, and are outbid, but then the EA comes back and says the other bidder has dropped out - try to find out why etc, and then make a fresh offer - which could be 20k or so less - if the other bidder has dropped out - they aren't going to come back in, and also the seller won't want them if they dropped out once before. Often though most people will just pay their last bid, instead of a new refreshed lower bid.

Agreed, there's no way i'd be happy to proceed with my last bid if the other 'bidder' dropped out having driven the offers way above anyone else.
Though it's easy for me to say that sitting in my ivory tower:rolleyes:

tscul32

standardg60 wrote: »

Agreed, there's no way i'd be happy to proceed with my last bid if the other 'bidder' dropped out having driven the offers way above anyone else.
Though it's easy for me to say that sitting in my ivory tower:rolleyes:

Friends of ours recently sold. Accepted an offer which fell through so went back to second highest bidder who reverted to their second last bid, i.e. wouldn't rebid the amount they had bid to try to beat the other party (who subsequently outbid them but then withdrew). Friends accepted the logic and the 5k lower bid.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

Think i read some poster here asking what is the lowest offer you could go in at - could you go in at 175k for that house that 225k? does the EA have to go to the seller and tell them or what way does it work?

Well there are two estate agents that seem prominent in my area and both seem to have differing views here. One estate agent (the one that's sold most in the area) has been going in at the lower asking prices (165, 175). Presumably the idea being that you can reel people in, get them at the viewings and try to get some emotional attachment to the property, then let them bid it up to it's "real" value.

This EA is presumably taking the opposite approach - list it at well above what it's worth, and see if anyone goes for it. You only need one person desperate and disillusioned enough with the state of the property market at the moment to place a bid, and you're laughing.

If that doesn't work, which I don't think it will, the EA will presumably slowly drop the price.

It's not a PPR for the seller, so I can only assume they're not in a hurry and would prefer to hold out for the highest possible offer.

I've never sold a property, but I would assume that the EA would explain their approach to selling and what they think would work best, and also try to explain to you what the market value really is, and the pros/cons of asking higher or lower than that. At the end of the day, it's presumably the seller's call, but at the same time, why engage an EA if you're going to ignore them.

As far as I know, the seller, by default, will be notified of any/all bids on the property and can make an informed decision from there. I believe that for 'busy' properties, the EA will just let them know the highest offer at the end of each day. I have heard before of sellers simply not wanting to hear about offers less than €x, although it doesn't seem like that'd be the case here, as im sure the seller isn't actually expecting to get the 225 for it.

Ace2007

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I know, the seller, by default, will be notified of any/all bids on the property and can make an informed decision from there. I believe that for 'busy' properties, the EA will just let them know the highest offer at the end of each day. I have heard before of sellers simply not wanting to hear about offers less than €x, although it doesn't seem like that'd be the case here, as im sure the seller isn't actually expecting to get the 225 for it.

I guess where i was coming from, say you put in bid of 175k, (what you believe it's worth), it may get rejected, or may just sit as an offer. Then if I come along don't know the area or anything, and am told by EA that current bid is 175k, I will obv put in my bid just over this value. Where as if the EA doesn't tell me that bid is there (even if rejected), i'm likely to go in at 215k or something with no real knowledge of the area etc.

Ace2007

Ace2007 wrote: »

I guess where i was coming from, say you put in bid of 175k, (what you believe it's worth), it may get rejected, or may just sit as an offer. Then if I come along don't know the area or anything, and am told by EA that current bid is 175k, I will obv put in my bid just over this value. Where as if the EA doesn't tell me that bid is there (even if rejected), i'm likely to go in at 215k or something with no real knowledge of the area etc.

Oh, i see what you mean alright.


I'm not sure, to be honest. Anytime I've rang an EA they've always told me the most recent bid on a property without any fuss. I presume they'd have to tell you, but maybe the "not accepting offers below €x" is their way out of it?


Or they could say (as they have to me in the past) an offer of X was made, but was rejected. Though I'd imagine anyone looking at the area would at the least, use the PPR to get an idea.

Sue de Nimes

Ace2007 wrote: »

I was merely pointing out that those issues that folk say could arise, and equally able to arise for an auctioned property but that buyer just has to suck it up? This idea that it wouldn't work, when it works perfectly well for an auction, proves that it's just pure unwillingness to engage possible solutions, and instead it's easier to fuel the fire.

An auction is just a different way to sell a property. So why can't rules that apply is one scenario work for another?

Because they are different scenarios?

Sue de Nimes

Deleted User wrote: »

So an estate near me has had a few houses up for sale recently (the last 6 months). All houses are fairly samey. One sold about 6 months ago for 175k (asking 180). About 3 months ago, one went for 195k (asking 165). About a week ago, another one sold for 195k (asking 175).

One listed this week is asking 225k. It's the first sign of madness that I've seen lately, as things had (from what i could see anyway) started to tame off a bit. I was actually interested in the 225k house, but there's no way would I pay that for the area it's in. Once you go over 200k you get a lot more variety and nicer areas become available. I knew it was coming up for sale before seeing the asking price, and was anticipating that an offer of 195 would probably seal the deal and be in line with other houses here (obviously I was wrong).

Pretty much my experience. Are you in the Midlands by any chance?

C14N

standardg60 wrote: »

If you've been religiously bidding in 5k increments straightaway you're giving the impression you're not at your limit regardless of whether the EA knows either way. Why not completely change tack with your next bid, wait 24 hours and then increase only by 500, and attach a note explaining that's your limit, you're at your wits end now being outbid on your dream home and just want to secure something to plan and start a family yada yada yada...

Previously, on other houses, I replied fairly quickly even close to at my limit. When we look at a house, we immediately work out between us what the most we'd bid on it is, so we're not faffing about each time trying to decide whether or not to put in another bid, which I think would lead to some irrational outcomes and pained decisions.

If I did go up 500 and say this is my highest possible bid next time, then that's fine if the "ghost bidder" theory is true, but if there's another party willing to bid more, they don't really care about the slowness or that I'm close to my limit. If anything that's probably encouraging to them. I don't really care about being honest, just don't see this getting me to win.

Ace2007 wrote: »

Also, I've been told a good trick is to request the EA to tell you in writing each time the bid has gone up - as then there is written proof. I don't actually know if the bids can be inspected by a regulator or anyone???? but people are less likely to lie when it's in writing.

Another is if you hit your limit, and are outbid, but then the EA comes back and says the other bidder has dropped out - try to find out why etc, and then make a fresh offer - which could be 20k or so less - if the other bidder has dropped out - they aren't going to come back in, and also the seller won't want them if they dropped out once before. Often though most people will just pay their last bid, instead of a new refreshed lower bid.

In this case, the agent has informed us of every update by email, so there is a record, but I don't think we can ever really audit it. He probably wouldn't legally be allowed to show us correspondance from the other party even if he wanted to.

I have also considered the latter scenario. We're well above asking price, and the agent phoned earlier to say the sellers were happy either way and were hoping it to be resolved this evening, so they're closing off any future viewings. If we lose it at our limit and they come back to us saying the others dropped out, I'd be inclined to drop it back down a bit myself. Out of all the viewings, all but two of the parties (us and the other one) dropped out very early in the bidding. So if they came back and the others dropped out, I'd probably try to go 10-20k below our own limit. It's still a good deal for them.

I've kind of mentally given up on it now anyway and am trying to think more about other houses we have bids on. We seem to get paired up a lot against one other very stubborn party, and I don't see them other ones dropping out anymore. We can go a bit further, but chances are it's going to be gone by tomorrow. I will say to the buyer that we'll be waiting in case they do drop out though.

Sue de Nimes

Sue de Nimes wrote: »

Pretty much my experience. Are you in the Midlands by any chance?

Drogheda, unfortunately. Although I could be your neighbour in the midlands in a year or two depending how things pan out for me here.

99nsr125

Was the highest and last bidder on a house at the weekend

Then estate agent calls, " they're going with lower bid, they know them or something "

Like wtf, do I now have to start doing interviews or something with the seller

kippy

99nsr125 wrote: »

Was the highest and last bidder on a house at the weekend

Then estate agent calls, " they're going with lower bid, they know them or something "

Like wtf, do I now have to start doing interviews or something with the seller

That can come into it.

brianc27

C14N wrote: »

I considered this early on when we first started bidding, but also thought it would be pretty hard to end it and could end up paying more as a result. People aren't always 100% rational about their own limits. 1000 is small enough on a house of ~€500k that it's easy to imagine people stretching their own budgets past what they planned if that was all it would take.

I feel that strategy worked for me anyway, the 'bidding war' lasted 3 days and I would never hold out on bids once the estate agent contacted me with the latest offer I immediately countered it by an extra 1000, the other bidders would take hours to come back and often would bid 2, 3 or 5 grand over, in the end the estate agent said they would recommend me to the vendor as winning bidder, I feel this was due to my quick replies once contacted

Red Silurian

99nsr125 wrote: »

Was the highest and last bidder on a house at the weekend

Then estate agent calls, " they're going with lower bid, they know them or something "

Like wtf, do I now have to start doing interviews or something with the seller

I've never heard of a lower bid being accepted but I have heard of vendors not wanting to sell to investors or councils under any circumstances. Some vendors are selling a family home after the death of a parent and want to see it taken care of, just as their parents would have. They might also still know a lot of their old neighbours so would take that into consideration.

I know a lady who sold a house near us to the council and one of the first things they did was rip out the 6 month old kitchen to put a new one in, such a small thing but it gave the impression that the council don't care about what some sellers consider to be sentimental value

Obviously if they are selling to somebody they know the situation improves even more for them

PropBuyer101

another strategy is to just say let me know when you are getting to final bids as not interested in bidding wars and just keep checking in to see what the latest offer is without putting a bid on.

One EA basically told me he wasnt going to update me and I had to put a bid on - I was like NO.

You play the game for yourself dont let the game play you!

o1s1n

Finally went sale agreed yesterday on a house we both really like in the area we were looking for.. absolutely delighted. Fingers crossed the rest of the process goes to plan...

Took us 57 viewings in total, exhausted just thinking about it!

Baybay

Red Silurian wrote: »

Some vendors are selling a family home after the death of a parent and want to see it taken care of, just as their parents would have. They might also still know a lot of their old neighbours so would take that into consideration.

I know a lady who sold a house near us to the council and one of the first things they did was rip out the 6 month old kitchen to put a new one in, such a small thing but it gave the impression that the council don't care about what some sellers consider to be sentimental value

Whether it’s the council or a private buyer, as you know, what happens a property after sale is beyond the remit of the seller. It may be upsetting but I’d guess few buyers care about a previous owners sentimentality.
My mother, for example would be horrified to see how the new owners of her house have let her garden go, as she would see it when what they’ve actually done is make it bee, wildlife, wildflower etc friendly. Doesn’t make them wrong but she’d still be uoset.

random_banter

The discussion on bidding over the last couple of places has been really valuable, just wanted to say thanks for that.

We only get into bidding on houses we are deadly serious about, and as a result I haven't been involved in loads and loads of bidding yet. But on the house we had our heart set on, i could have done with some of the advice above. When the house came back around, the EA made me feel like I was the only bidder, and I failed to ask the right questions - how many other bidders are in the mix - what are they bidding at - asking for updates etc. As a result we had the impression we nearly had the upper hand and we were very stubborn with our last bid - never got told that someone had outbid us.

We may have gone the extra few more k. But sure we'll never know now! I'll be taking the advice above with me next time.

PropBuyer101

random_banter wrote: »

The discussion on bidding over the last couple of places has been really valuable, just wanted to say thanks for that.

We only get into bidding on houses we are deadly serious about, and as a result I haven't been involved in loads and loads of bidding yet. But on the house we had our heart set on, i could have done with some of the advice above. When the house came back around, the EA made me feel like I was the only bidder, and I failed to ask the right questions - how many other bidders are in the mix - what are they bidding at - asking for updates etc. As a result we had the impression we nearly had the upper hand and we were very stubborn with our last bid - never got told that someone had outbid us.

We may have gone the extra few more k. But sure we'll never know now! I'll be taking the advice above with me next time.

they are supposed to tell you when there is a higher bid

Busi_Girl08

Contracts finally arrived 2 months to the day we went sale agreed. Starting to feel real now!!!

Klopp

When a agent asks for your proof of Mortgage approval, do you cross out the sum amount? Are they in a position to request this is visible? I am curious as i suspect in one of our bidding on a house the agent used our amount to the sellers advantage?