Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

PropBuyer101

tobsey wrote: »

The markets you picked as comparisons are not remotely the same. For a purchase of a second hand property, you are almost always buying off a private individual or couple. They have no obligation to say anything to you, or to accept your bid, or to even accept the highest bid. It's their property, they can do what they like with it. The estate agent works for them too, so the vendor is the one being looked after.

all the EAs I have dealt with are very transparent and communicative and if they are not I dont deal with them - its not worth it. so i suppose its the difference between doing a job or doing a job well.


so you can defend lack of communication all you want but why would you.

tobsey

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

all the EAs I have dealt with are very transparent and communicative and if they are not I dont deal with them - its not worth it. so i suppose its the difference between doing a job or doing a job well.


so you can defend lack of communication all you want but why would you.

I agree with your point on some agents being better than others. There's one particular agent in Dublin and I skip right past a property when I see they are the ones selling it. However they are under no obligation to do what Ace is asking of them. They work for the seller. They represent the seller's interests. They may be operating under instruction of the seller, you don't know. They have no obligation to do anything for a prospective buyer.

Ace2007

tobsey wrote: »

I agree with your point on some agents being better than others. There's one particular agent in Dublin and I skip right past a property when I see they are the ones selling it. However they are under no obligation to do what Ace is asking of them. They work for the seller. They represent the seller's interests. They may be operating under instruction of the seller, you don't know. They have no obligation to do anything for a prospective buyer.

I understand all that, but it doesn't mean it's right, would you say the unregulated nature of bidding at the moment is right? in that i have absolutely no idea if the bid i'm being told is what it really is or not? Surely there is some ethics when it comes to being an EA, and assuming that the majority are above board, then why would anyone be against a more open form of bidding, where everyone can see what bids have been made, what bidding stated at, what's being rejected, under consideration etc.

Most couples or private owners selling will also be buying and experience the other side.

Klaudia.

mushcles wrote: »

I'm in a similar position. I have yet to receive the contracts but developers are pushing for them to be signed within 6 weeks once I do. Is this normal? I don't understand how the bank will give me a loan offer for a house that won't be built for around a year.

Not sure if it's the same for you, but I had to have a loan offer to be able to sign the contract for a house.
When I moved to the loan offer, the lender sent a valuer to the site. In the valuation report, there is a completion date: September 2021.....
It was obvious for my lender the house will not be finished in September, but that was not an issue in getting the loan offer.

The loan offer is valid for some time, so if you cannot drawdown within that time, you need to contact your lender again. I know I will have to go through the approval process again as it will be close to a year between signing the loan offer and drawdown...

Funmum05

Hi have only just found this thread so apologies if my questions have already been answered. We have just started the process of buying a house and have entered into a bidding war however, it doesn't add up to us. We know of a few people who have viewed the house but walked away as there's a lot of work needing for the price of it. We think the EA has us bidding against a phantom bidder. He made comment to us when viewing the house that a house he sold for a family member were bidding against themselves. Now we've had family ring up to find out the latest bids to be told that the highest bid is €55,000 less then what we bid and that they have a few people bidding on it. We've been told that we're only bidding against 1 person. We really like the house but don't want to pay more then we have to as we need the surplus money to renovate the house. How do you think we should approach this as this is our first time buying a 2nd hand home.

PropBuyer101

Funmum05 wrote: »

Hi have only just found this thread so apologies if my questions have already been answered. We have just started the process of buying a house and have entered into a bidding war however, it doesn't add up to us. We know of a few people who have viewed the house but walked away as there's a lot of work needing for the price of it. We think the EA has us bidding against a phantom bidder. He made comment to us when viewing the house that a house he sold for a family member were bidding against themselves. Now we've had family ring up to find out the latest bids to be told that the highest bid is €55,000 less then what we bid and that they have a few people bidding on it. We've been told that we're only bidding against 1 person. We really like the house but don't want to pay more then we have to as we need the surplus money to renovate the house. How do you think we should approach this as this is our first time buying a 2nd hand home.

1. check property register to see what other houses in that area have sold for recently and if it seems way out of kilter - walk away.

2. tell the EA straight - whats the story and you want transparency - if they wont communicate - walk away.

ive learned in this process not to get emotionally attached to the property and if the deal itself seems off walk away. you'll find another one with a trust worthy agent and that will make the process easier.

ELM327

I have to say, we've had a fair few viewings and "outbiddings" at this point with multiple EAs and I can't ever recall not being told over the phone before viewing, of any bids already on the property.

PropBuyer101

ELM327 wrote: »

I have to say, we've had a fair few viewings and "outbiddings" at this point with multiple EAs and I can't ever recall not being told over the phone before viewing, of any bids already on the property.

agreed. a few posters on here want us to lower our standards and expect less.



no thank you!

awec

So to clarify on this:

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

another strategy is to just say let me know when you are getting to final bids as not interested in bidding wars and just keep checking in to see what the latest offer is without putting a bid on.

One EA basically told me he wasnt going to update me and I had to put a bid on - I was like NO.

You play the game for yourself dont let the game play you!

This is being a total time waster. You're the sort of person that makes the process frustrating for everyone, nonsensical "strategies" that make no sense whatsoever and exist only to make you feel like you're somehow winning the game.

"I don't want to bid now, but I might bid later, you must keep me informed!". Amazing. Tyre kicking, quite literally.

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

they are supposed to tell you when there is a higher bid

They don't have to tell you. They are under no obligation to allow you to counter bid. It is a sellers market out there. You could ring up one day and find out that the property you're bidding on is sale agreed with someone else. This is completely legitimate.

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

1. check property register to see what other houses in that area have sold for recently and if it seems way out of kilter - walk away.

2. tell the EA straight - whats the story and you want transparency - if they wont communicate - walk away.

ive learned in this process not to get emotionally attached to the property and if the deal itself seems off walk away. you'll find another one with a trust worthy agent and that will make the process easier.

A great way for everyone to think you're a total waste of time is to act like this. "I want transparency". I can only imagine how hard eyes would roll on the other end of the phone if someone was as pretentious as this.

As I said, it's a sellers market, why a potential buyer would want to make life more difficult for themselves by coming across incredibly rude makes the mind genuinely boggle.

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

agreed. a few posters on here want us to lower our standards and expect less.



no thank you!

There's nothing here about lowering standards, just some people talking nonsense like they've suddenly cracked how to deal with this process.

PropBuyer101

awec wrote: »

So to clarify on this:



This is being a total time waster. You're the sort of person that makes the process frustrating for everyone, nonsensical "strategies" that make no sense whatsoever and exist only to make you feel like you're somehow winning the game.

"I don't want to bid now, but I might bid later, you must keep me informed!". Amazing. Tyre kicking, quite literally.



They don't have to tell you. They are under no obligation to allow you to counter bid. It is a sellers market out there. You could ring up one day and find out that the property you're bidding on is sale agreed with someone else. This is completely legitimate.



A great way for everyone to think you're a total waste of time is to act like this. "I want transparency". I can only imagine how hard eyes would roll on the other end of the phone if someone was as pretentious as this.

As I said, it's a sellers market, why a potential buyer would want to make life more difficult for themselves by coming across incredibly rude makes the mind genuinely boggle.



There's nothing here about lowering standards, just some people talking nonsense like they've suddenly cracked how to deal with this process.

the buyer getting information and being informed on their decision making process is not time wasting. you obviously are on the seller side of things. buyers are also entitled to be respected regardless of whether it is a sellers market. you can spin it as pretentiousness or time wasting whatever makes you happy. its just a business deal at the end of the day and everyone should protect their own interests.



also why are you going through posts I sent earlier in the day prior to my initial response to you. a bit petty.

Treppen

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I've been told when i was being outbid.
How would you go from being the winning bidder to being told that the house has gone sales agreed in the meantime?

Someone might have come along with cash and just put a final offer on the table which would be good for a few days. EA would have rang the seller and said this guy has a good deal and probably gone to the limit, do you want to take it or wait.

The seller might be wanting to move quick too (of course the EA would never tell you this).

We spotted a property that needed a bit of attention but was 4 bed and a good enough size/location, we knew the max bid that others were going to. We also remembered the same EA telling us previously that she thought another house that sold in the area was way overvalued (which -relatively speaking- it wasn't, given what other's were selling for) so we knew she wasn't 100% clued in as to the market values.

So when the bidding kicked off it was listed about 30k undervalue (the usual in this area to get interest), it started off in the usual 1k over asking.. so straight away we went in with our max at the 30k over asking and the bid was final and only valid till Tuesday.
Monday morning she got back and said yes.

In saying all that, we have about 40k to have to put into it, but we are going to take our time, also the supply in the area has dropped to 1 house per week so maybe we were lucky to be done with it all.

TL;Dr just go in with your max offer for what you think it'll achieve given other houses.
Property register can be out of date too, so prices 3 months ago are not necessarily the same as today. You need to be involved in the bidding process for current properties. Usually we found that they got back to all bidders once it was loosing steam so we went in with very low offers on houses we didn't ant just so we'd have eyes on the bidding process (happens a lot with apps where non-bidders don't get to see current offers).

awec

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

the buyer getting information and being informed on their decision making process is not time wasting. you obviously are on the seller side of things. buyers are also entitled to be respected regardless of whether it is a sellers market. you can spin it as pretentiousness or time wasting whatever makes you happy. its just a business deal at the end of the day and everyone should protect their own interests.



also why are you going through posts I sent earlier in the day prior to my initial response to you. a bit petty.

There is gathering information, and then there's being a waste of time. To infer interest, but not want to bid, but then intend on bidding later, makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know about you, but if someone rang me up for a "business deal" and started talking about "wanting transparency" and then messing about with maybe being interested, maybe not, I would think that they are someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing and therefore not likely to be a valuable use of my time. I'd imagine the person to be someone who has maybe watched a bit too much Apprentice on the telly.

PropBuyer101

awec wrote: »

There is gathering information, and then there's being a waste of time. To infer interest, but not want to bid, but then intend on bidding later, makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know about you, but if someone rang me up for a "business deal" and started talking about "wanting transparency" and then messing about with maybe being interested, maybe not, I would think that they are someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing and therefore not likely to be a valuable use of my time.

you are twisting things a bit but ive nothing else to say to some angry dude on boards - so lets just leave it there.

Ace2007

awec wrote: »

There is gathering information, and then there's being a waste of time. To infer interest, but not want to bid, but then intend on bidding later, makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know about you, but if someone rang me up for a "business deal" and started talking about "wanting transparency" and then messing about with maybe being interested, maybe not, I would think that they are someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing and therefore not likely to be a valuable use of my time. I'd imagine the person to be someone who has maybe watched a bit too much Apprentice on the telly.

It makes perfect sense, you don't want to get involved in a potential bidding war and drive up the house prices, so you don't bid but would like to bid in the price is right - hence an open and transparent system would work in everyone's favor.

If the property price register didn't exist for instance how would anyone know what houses where worth? This is used by nearly everyone nowadays but there was a time it didn't exist.

givyjoe

awec wrote: »

There is gathering information, and then there's being a waste of time. To infer interest, but not want to bid, but then intend on bidding later, makes no sense whatsoever.

I don't know about you, but if someone rang me up for a "business deal" and started talking about "wanting transparency" and then messing about with maybe being interested, maybe not, I would think that they are someone who hasn't a clue what they are doing and therefore not likely to be a valuable use of my time. I'd imagine the person to be someone who has maybe watched a bit too much Apprentice on the telly.

Not sure what you're problem is with this, makes perfect sense to me, don't wanna get involved in the endless back and forward but would like an option to make the final bid. There's no obligation on anyone to be in the bidding process, you only need to be the last bid. I can easily see why this is appealing having been in many, many bidding wars.. and that's the reason. Give me a number and the end and I either beat it or I don't. I'd absolutely 100% love this option myself. No ups and downs, no watching emails for new bids etc, just a black and white decision at the end. The reality unfortunately is that many EA'S won't be arsed coming back to you unless you're in the bidding already. Some wont even come back if you haven't bid in the final few bids.

Funmum05

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

1. check property register to see what other houses in that area have sold for recently and if it seems way out of kilter - walk away.

2. tell the EA straight - whats the story and you want transparency - if they wont communicate - walk away.

ive learned in this process not to get emotionally attached to the property and if the deal itself seems off walk away. you'll find another one with a trust worthy agent and that will make the process easier.

The last house that sold in that area sold for €128k less then the asking price of the house we're looking at but it sold in November 2017. It was also in walk in condition whereas the house we're looking at looks like an ex rental.

Unfortunately EA are never transparent as they want to achieve the best price for the sellers which is understandable.

From what we gather he hasn't given any of the bids that he claims to have received to the sellers for their consideration. We're cash buyers but the other buyers are relying on the sale of their house.

We've been house hunting for 3 years but this is the first house we've seen that we're interested in.

standardg60

o1s1n wrote: »

Finally went sale agreed yesterday on a house we both really like in the area we were looking for.. absolutely delighted. Fingers crossed the rest of the process goes to plan...

Took us 57 viewings in total, exhausted just thinking about it!

Many congrats.

Was hardly the one with the 'offer the asking' EA was it?

Brussels Sprout

awec wrote: »

In a world where there is no shortage of buyers for a property, constantly ringing up for info without bidding is just wasting everyone's time.

If you want to buy it, bid. If you don't want to buy it, don't bid. Messing around just causes the process to drag on for everyone for absolutely no gain.

Telling people that they have been outbid is the bare minimum an EA can do. I mean not only is it the professional and decent thing to do but not telling them is outright foolish for their own bottom line.

If they don't tell the low bidder that they have been outbid it opens up the very real possibility that the house ends up selling for less than what the low bidder may have actually paid for it.

I get it that it's Celtic-tiger boom-times are back again time for EAs but not informing people that they have been outbid is just leaving money on the table.

standardg60

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Telling people that they have been outbid is the bare minimum an EA can do. I mean not only is it the professional and decent thing to do but not telling them is outright foolish for their own bottom line.

If they don't tell the low bidder that they have been outbid it opens up the very real possibility that the house ends up selling for less than what the low bidder may have actually paid for it.

I get it that it's Celtic-tiger boom-times are back again time for EAs but not informing people that they have been outbid is just leaving money on the table.

I've said it before but EA's don't work for vendors or buyers, just for themselves.
It's not about achieving the highest possible bid for each sale, just about the sales themselves, and makes far more sense for them to allocate their book of homes to their potential book of buyers as they see fit.
Many moons ago friends of mine were outbid on a property but bought another one which was for sale with the same EA. Years later they discovered they were actually the highest bid on the first one, the vendors were never told as the EA wanted to sell the other and knew the underbidders wouldn't buy it.

tobsey

givyjoe wrote: »

Not sure what you're problem is with this, makes perfect sense to me, don't wanna get involved in the endless back and forward but would like an option to make the final bid. There's no obligation on anyone to be in the bidding process, you only need to be the last bid. I can easily see why this is appealing having been in many, many bidding wars.. and that's the reason. Give me a number and the end and I either beat it or I don't. I'd absolutely 100% love this option myself. No ups and downs, no watching emails for new bids etc, just a black and white decision at the end. The reality unfortunately is that many EA'S won't be arsed coming back to you unless you're in the bidding already. Some wont even come back if you haven't bid in the final few bids.

Of course that’s preferable for you. It’s not for the seller, the agent or the other bidders though. If I’m an agent and managing bids from numerous parties I’m not going to reach out to someone who hasn’t engaged and who may or may not bid in the end.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Not sure what you're problem is with this, makes perfect sense to me, don't wanna get involved in the endless back and forward but would like an option to make the final bid. There's no obligation on anyone to be in the bidding process, you only need to be the last bid. I can easily see why this is appealing having been in many, many bidding wars.. and that's the reason. Give me a number and the end and I either beat it or I don't. I'd absolutely 100% love this option myself. No ups and downs, no watching emails for new bids etc, just a black and white decision at the end. The reality unfortunately is that many EA'S won't be arsed coming back to you unless you're in the bidding already. Some wont even come back if you haven't bid in the final few bids.

That wouldn’t work at all. Like who starts? It’s fine for you, coming in after the first bid has been set up, but who do you expect to go first? It’s only back and white for you....not for anyone else who might want to buy the house

aodh_rua

We put our first bid down on a house in West Dublin earlier, a €5k increase on the previous highest to date. That was beaten by 5k within hours, meaning the property is now running at €70k over the asking price 😬

givyjoe

tobsey wrote: »

Of course that’s preferable for you. It’s not for the seller, the agent or the other bidders though. If I’m an agent and managing bids from numerous parties I’m not going to reach out to someone who hasn’t engaged and who may or may not bid in the end.

why would or should I give a hoot what suits the seller?! Or the EA, or the agent?! Are you new to the process of buying a house? because none of the above are in any way concerned what's preferable for you. I'd wager you haven't been involved in any, or many bidding wars judging from the above, but your last sentence makes absolutely zero sense, what is calling to register an interest BUT engaging?!

If you had been involved in any bidding wars, you'd at least have some idea why this would be preferable for an individual. As I said, in most cases it's not practical as the agent won't call you back. However, if the agent knows you from a half dozen or so previous bidding wars, they're likely to be far more amenable to the above, knowing you're a genuine buyer who might help them get a deal done, precisely this scenario Ivr had in the last week "seller will accept this price, it's at X now, are you interested..".

givyjoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That wouldn’t work at all. Like who starts? It’s fine for you, coming in after the first bid has been set up, but who do you expect to go first? It’s only back and white for you....not for anyone else who might want to buy the house

Read my latest post below, it's fairly simple. Me choosing not to engage in a bidding war, isn't going to change the market for tens of thousands of others. Someone/others will always bid.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Read my latest post below, it's fairly simple.

But in your scenario what if I also want to be the last bid?

(Which I would.....I would be infuriated if someone had been kept aside as a preferential final bidder)

standardg60

Funmum05 wrote: »

The last house that sold in that area sold for €128k less then the asking price of the house we're looking at but it sold in November 2017. It was also in walk in condition whereas the house we're looking at looks like an ex rental.

Unfortunately EA are never transparent as they want to achieve the best price for the sellers which is understandable.

From what we gather he hasn't given any of the bids that he claims to have received to the sellers for their consideration. We're cash buyers but the other buyers are relying on the sale of their house.

We've been house hunting for 3 years but this is the first house we've seen that we're interested in.

And this is in essence what the problem with lack of transparency is. Rather than tell you what the latest bid is, the EA is more interested in establishing what your maximum bid might be, which could be 100k above anyone else.

givyjoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But in your scenario what if I also want to be the last bid?

(Which I would.....I would be infuriated if someone had been kept aside as a preferential final bidder)

Dear god, no one is being kept aside as a preferential bidder. There is absolutely zero requirement for me to be bidding, before the winning bid. Why is this so hard for you to get?!

Who cares if you're infuriated? I wont, neither will the EA. If you're the highest bidder prior to being outbid, you'll be given a chance to best it..simple. You seemed to be have completely missed the part why I explained my selfish preference is unlikely to actually work.

standardg60

givyjoe wrote: »

why would or should I give a hoot what suits the seller?! Or the EA, or the agent?! Are you new to the process of buying a house? because none of the above are in any way concerned what's preferable for you. I'd wager you haven't been involved in any, or many bidding wars judging from the above, but your last sentence makes absolutely zero sense, what is calling to register an interest BUT engaging?!

If you had been involved in any bidding wars, you'd at least have some idea why this would be preferable for an individual. As I said, in most cases it's not practical as the agent won't call you back. However, if the agent knows you from a half dozen or so previous bidding wars, they're likely to be far more amenable to the above, knowing you're a genuine buyer who might help them get a deal done, precisely this scenario Ivr had in the last week "seller will accept this price, it's at X now, are you interested..".

This exactly.
Establishing a relationship with an EA in terms of budget, seriousness in buying and availability of funds is by far the best way of securing a home here it seems. They will tend to eventually earmark you for something.

givyjoe

givyjoe wrote: »

Dear god, no one is being kept aside as a preferential bidder. There is absolutely zero requirement for me to be bidding, before the winning bid. Why is this so hard for you to get?!

Who cares if you're infuriated? I wont, neither will the EA. If you're the highest bidder prior to being outbid, you'll be given a chance to best it..simple. You seemed to be have completely missed the part why I explained my selfish preference is unlikely to actually work.

So just the same as a bidding war then....

givyjoe

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So just the same as a bidding war then....

Dear god, if you don't understand by now. I give up. Best of luck with your search.