Currently buying/selling a house? How is it going? READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Emma2019

Could be anything. They could be waiting on the all clear from their mortgage protection or waiting for one of them to get off EWSS. All the delays applicable to a FTB apply to second timers,and then some.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039235#Comment_118039235

I don't think it's something like that. They've been pretty consistent for the past month or so that all the delays have been down to their purchase contracts and documents being slow.

I asked our own solicitor about it and he recommended we threaten to pull out unless they give us a date within 2 days. I feel nervous about doing that though. I worry that might come off as unreasonable, and it would also absolutely be an empty threat. We don't have a backup plan, and considering how long this has gone on for, the sellers must kind of know this. I'm sure if they thought we were sincere, it would spook them into action because it would certainly make their own purchase collapse (and as much as they've been averse to giving a date, I'm sure they'd still be even more adverse to having to start the whole months long process again), but I feel like they could probably call our bluff and then I wouldn't know where to go from there.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039483#Comment_118039483

On the ultimatum part, we got one as the buyers in this situation. Our delays were down to a solicitor being in court and documents being sent by standard post taking 4 days over a weekend.

The ultimatum spooked us, but I can see why the seller did it, magically our solicitor sorted everything the next day after not a whole lot for 3 weeks. If you’re dealing with a slow solicitor too, this might be the only way to focus their mind

It’s not an easy call I imagine, but most buyers and solicitors would probably understand the reason behind it.

LeeroyJ.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118036300#Comment_118036300

Had the same experience on 2 houses, constantly overbid by small amounts until I dropped out, within a few days it was re-entered for a lower asking price than when I started bidding. Pure greed, I was already bidding 10% over the initial asking price.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039721#Comment_118039721

It's funny. Our solicitor said the same thing, that a threat of withdrawal would focus their minds. Presumably he thinks they could come up with a closing date but just aren't bothered because it's not important to them. I think he's quite frustrated too by the fact that he's been trying to contact them daily for over a week and is getting ignored.

We decided not to go as far as threatening to pull out in the end, at least not yet. We were just too afraid of even the small risk that they would call our bluff and the whole thing could fall apart. We did send an email saying our solicitor had expressed serious concerns about the process though. Also raised the issue that our bank valuation is due to expire before the end of November, so if it ends up running past that we will need to have that done again, which will add a huge wrinkle to drawing down and delay it by probably at least 3 weeks while we get another one, which I'm sure is something they also really would not want.

JimmyVik

I know a couple who are sale agreed for the last 3 weeks.

They cant find anywhere to move to though.

Looks like they are going to pull the plug themselves and go again after Christmas.

They know its not nice on their buyers but they have no choice.

So now they are disappointing, their buyers are even more disappointing, and their buyers buyers must be fuming.

They werent allowed to bid on houses until they were under offer themselves. Since they went under offer the properties they liked went sale agreed. Now there are no houses available for them to buy.

What a sh!tshow.

Bannasidhe

Watching a whole buying a hse rigmarole where I happen to know both vendor and buyer and I have to say some solicitors are taking the absolute urine.

Short story - non-resident vendor, sale agreed during 1st lockdown but delayed as no BER etc etc. Vendor did tell their solicitor to get ready (no mortgage to clear, solicitor has deeds etc) as they want a fast fast sale. Sale only started to get going really in May this year in terms of BER, surveys, mortgage approval for buyer. Vendor's solicitor told it's all going ahead. Be ready. Vendor getting antsy to close sale as it's been dragging out and they want it done asap.

Vendor's solicitor still hasn't sent contract. It's Oct. Told in May to get everything ready as BER was done. Told in Aug loan offer in place buyer's solicitor will be in touch.

Sale nearly fell through as vendor's solicitor gave them incorrect tax advice (solicitor is on a retainer so this isn't a casual client situation)- this is where I got dragged in. I pointed out tax advice was incorrect - sent correct advice. Vendor's solicitor said they would check. That took 2 weeks. Their advice was indeed incorrect (they 'forgot' the hse had been the principle residence of a dependant relative and therefore not liable for CGT and gave advice as if it was a rented property - which it never was) . Sale back on. Contracts due to be sent immediately.

Buyer had everything set up for original closing date of around 1st Oct, pushed that back to 1st Nov, if they are lucky it will be 1st Dec. The issue with that is hse needs some urgent work to be winter ready. Tradesmen were all lined up... expensive things like boilers purchased and are now sitting in warehouses waiting to be collected.

Nothing at all happened in Sept bar buyer's solicitor ringing, emailing, approaching them in local Supervalu offering to pop in and collect contract personally...

Solicitor promised very angry vendor absolutely contracts would be out 3 weeks ago. Week later tells buyer's solicitor can't send contracts yet as doesn't have all title docs ready... We know what happened.

The named partner decided he would take care of the important client's stuff himself rather than pass it over to his far more efficient junior associate. Then did nothing as it's small stuff really. Got phone call from angry client on a Monday morning- promised contracts would go out that week, on the Friday thought "!!!... better send those contracts" discovered the legal fairies had not been in to quietly get all the various docs needed together and he would have to actually do that himself.

Everything is delayed literally because one solicitor is constantly putting off doing the boring paperwork .... I hope that in the message vendor sent to solicitor yesterday morning that it contained the instruction to pass the file to efficient associate...otherwise I'm going to need a lot more popcorn.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040579#Comment_118040579

Three weeks seems like a very quick amount of time to be throwing in the towel imo. Why not just ask the buyers if they're willing to wait longer?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041038#Comment_118041038

Thats what I said, but there is literally nothing for them to buy.

Their buyers want to be in before Christmas. God knows what their buyers buyers want.

There is just no supply at their end of the market. Well none that they would move out of their current house for anyway.

Ilongga

We are sale agreed on the house we are selling and also sale agreed on the house we are buying.

the purchase side almost fell through due to survey report issues. And during that time we got ready to pull out as there are three houses which came on the market which ticked the boxes for us. We aggressively bid on one of them putting 20k more than the highest bid. Status of our own sale that time was contract issued to buyers solicitor.

We thought we are in a very strong position. But no. Vendor will not accept our bid as we are on a chain.

We we’re heartbroken and there’s a realisation there that you need to take the big gamble of being homeless first before you get into a strong position to buy!

Luckily we were able get into an agreement with the vendor of the first house and is progressing fine now.

So I think this whole idea of not selling to people on a chain actually stops people from selling and moving thereby impacting the supply. I have work colleagues and friends who is keen to move due to growing family and necessity of WFH space. But they won’t risk being homeless first in order to buy.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041851#Comment_118041851

That is very frustrating alright. When we were looking, we thought not having a chain would put us in a stronger position than most as we were first-time buyers, but still found ourselves crowded out several times by cash buyers, who are more attractive again. In one case, we had a protracted bidding war with one other party, and we were delighted when we were told that we had the top bid and that the other party would not be raising any further. Then later that same day got news that the sellers were going with the other party, because they were a fully cash buyer. We were told it didn't even matter if we wanted to bid higher, they weren't going to sell to us. Felt very frustrated because it effectively meant we were patsies the whole time who were only there to drive up the cost for the other party. Glad that you managed to get your situation sorted in the end.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041148#Comment_118041148

As a buyer in the middle of this myself, while I would be pretty ticked off if I found out the sale was going to have to wait until after Christmas, I'd still grit my teeth and suck it up tbh. Can't speak for their own buyers who may be in a very different situation (especially if they are also selling on) but it wouldn't be any harm to at least tell them the situation and say that it will take more time.

We did get a response on our email to the agent, and it's a bit more hopeful than I would have thought. They've said that the sellers will talk to the solicitor today to try and get us a closing date, and that if absolutely necessary they can do a caretaker's arrangement to give us extra peace of mind about the sale. Hopefully good news and we'll get it all sorted for ourselves soon.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041851#Comment_118041851

Its a big risk.

Not only are you homeless for a while, if you lose your job or there is another pandemic that effects your job, you will be at least a year before you can apply for a mortgage again.

By that time prices may have outrun you and there you are without a house or looking at going into a worse house than you left because prices have moved on.

I certainly wouldnt take that risk myself.

LeeroyJ.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118035065#Comment_118035065

I've heard from the bank, they issued the loan offer and have been approving various documents such as the valuation, direct debit the BER certificate etc. I reached out to the solicitor and haven't heard any updates. I'll take the advice and ask the EA and solicitor what the progress is on the contracts, I don't even know if anything has happened yet on that front. I've only been pushing through all the things I can do and control.

Ilongga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041959#Comment_118041959

My current observation is that many pensioners or empty nesters are cashing in on the current market and downsizing to less expensive neighbourhood. So once they sold their big properties with big gardens in a nice area they have a good amount of cash and are competing with FTBs in a more affordable area. My house for example bidding was started by FTBs and then just at the end of the process, two downsizers came in and outbid everyone. Both drove the offer price higher. Was surprised to know that the winner bidder is from the same area but from a more expensive and mature estate.

But sure who can blame them. The current market is perfect for downsizing.

Ilongga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118042348#Comment_118042348

Definitely not a risk for everyone.

Took us many months to decide to take the risk. We lined up everything, title deeds, mortgage approval, BER, and engaged with solicitor who advised what else we need to arrange (ie planning exemption for extension). Even started the mortgage protection in case both of us needed to be sent for medical check-up.

We got EA lined up too who agreed to get the house up in a matter of 3 days as soon as we are ready. For months we tried to maintain our house at a show house level presentation.

Then when the right property came to the Market, we immediately put our house for sale. While bidding is going on our house we bid on the property we like. We told fib that we are on advanced sale of our house. We were lucky that there weren’t many bidders as it seems overpriced. But its on a street and area that we want. We sticked to it and eventually won the bidding.

The vendor didn’t care we were on a chain probably because of not many interest and our aggressive offer.

If it didn’t work out like that, we are prepared to stall the sale or withdraw our house from the Market. I cannot have my family homeless.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118043254#Comment_118043254

That does sound like it might be true. We did seem to be at viewings with plenty of 60+ buyers. Honestly, I think it's a good thing that people with big houses who don't need them downsize a bit to let the house be used by someone else who might need the space, but it did still make it difficult. A lot of places that felt "big" to us (as in 3 bedrooms, 90+ sqm, some even 120sqm) presumably must have felt like downsizing to others.

I suppose its also easier for older people to just sell and take the cash too rather than needing to setup a chain. It's a lot easier for a single person or couple who aren't working to find temporary accomodations for themselves than for a family to do the same, especially if they might have kids themselves with a spare room.

bawnBeag

Its all gone bonkers....viewed a house last week. Put an offer in at 10k over the asking price, EA wouldn't take offer without PoF. Got that today and called to place a bid only to find out that the current bid was over 30% more than the asking price....where are people getting the money from???

LMESS

wrong post - edited

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044049#Comment_118044049

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118044049#Comment_118044049

Im hearing more stories about councils outbidding people.

Bottomless pit of money to bid against you. Worse thing is that its your money they are bidding with too.

bawnBeag

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049495#Comment_118049495

How can you tell if its council?

tweenie

We are sale agreed on our house for a long time now. We have been trying to buy but there are so few houses. We recently thought that we were finally successful. We were 10k more than FTB, there were only the two of us bidding. They decided to take the lower offer from FTB. The annoying part is that the FTB would have got it for about 30k less if we were not bidding. Or else would have to wait longer for another FTB to come along. I feel that they used us to push FTB to their max. They knew our situation from the start. Wasted a lot of time and energy, not to mention hope that we would finally be successful.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049812#Comment_118049812

You only find out after the house is sold and the new tenants move in.

But usually the council buy a house, leave it empty for a few months then gut it and redo it.

And then a little while after thats done the new owners move in.

Also there is a person currently posting on boards actually working in the housing department who has been saying it.

Im sure if you are bidding you can ask the EA are you bidding against ordinary couples or councils or reits or solicitors.

If they wont tell you, you know you are and you should drop out straight away, because you wont win.

JimmyVik

So helping my friends and I notice their bidding style is to bid €20k over the last bid in the hope of knocking out the previous bidder.

It occurs to me that its probably best to bid just over the current high bidder and go up in small amounts until they drop out or you drop out.

I think coming in €25k above is a mistake (these days anyway). Because EAs are just using that to go back to other bidders and viewers and say "look what this house is worth. Someone bid €25k over last bidder on it. Would you like to go over that bid?".

That can never end well.

Dont let them use your high bid as ammunition to encourage people of the worth of a property. Just bid up slowly until you reach it.

Worst that can happen is you bid what you were going to bid anyway.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052375#Comment_118052375

€25k is high, but I do also understand it from the perspective of trying to just get on with it quickly. You can just keep bidding up by very small amounts, but it is going to drag the whole process out longer, and as a buyer that can be quite frustrating.

Like, lets say you have a house for sale with an asking price of €400k. There are two buyers who'd like to bid on it. Buyer 1 is willing to go as high as €440k for it, and buyer 2 is willing to go to €450k on it. If Buyer 1 makes an offer at asking price, and they just keep bidding back and forth putting the other one up by €1k, then it'll take 40 bids back and forth before the thing closes, which could take weeks, and in that time more interested buyers with potentially more money could come along too. It really takes an emotional toll too if you really want a place and spend weeks not knowing if you'll actually get it. If you're a buyer in no rush at all and really want to save the money, it can make sense, but it is going to drag the process out.

That said, I don't think there's much of a rational case for doing a huge bid like €20k-25k, unless speed is really important to you. I know people have a notion that they could "scare off" other bidders, but at the end of the day, if those bidders were willing to go to €20k over their current bid anyway, they still will. To re-use the previous example, if Buyer 1 offers €400k, and Buyer 2 comes in at €425k, Buyer 1 will generally still be willing to counter-bid until they get out of their price range.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118050184#Comment_118050184

I think thats exactly what the EAs are doing.

They were never interested in you, but used your bid and strung you along.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052445#Comment_118052445

I think the problem is that when someone goes in as the highest bidder, intead of the vendor going sale agreed, they are just letting the highest bid sit there for weeks or even months hoping they get another. All the while the high bidder is just sitting there being used, especially if the vendors want to wait for a cash buyer.

C14N

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052715#Comment_118052715

Yeah, that is possible. A lot of the time it's in the vendor's interest to just keep waiting. There is no deadline or anything on most bids, so the seller can pretty much do what they want. But I think they do that regardless of whether you bid really high or not. I've had ones where I was the highest bidder for weeks, and they continued doing more viewings. Eventually a cash buyer swept in and we were told they would pretty much be getting it for sure unless we went substantially higher than them so we backed out.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053640#Comment_118053640

I know. I think the best strategy is to put a time limit of a week on each bid you make. Then if you are outbid and feel like making another higher bid do the same again.

Anything to not enable them to use your bid while they keep you on the long finger for weeks while they continue to have viewings.

Shelga

I'm a FTB and have just gone sale agreed on my second property this year. First one fell through because it was owner-occupied and the seller couldn't find anywhere to buy (I recently found out she was only looking in one tiny area, so feel she completely wasted my time with her unrealistic expectations, but anyway...)

I just hope with everything I have that this one moves more quickly- I've just dropped out of the last one after waiting over 5 months. The signs are good so far- it's not owner-occupied, it's a couple who are accidental landlords and want to sell quickly.

I've been looking properly for about 2 years now, another year of looking casually before that. I've bid on about 20 properties and been outbid every time until now, when I changed the areas I was looking in- maybe that's what did it. The whole process involves luck as much as anything else, and as I'm a single buyer, also involves requiring loving family members who are willing to give you 10s of 1000s of €, on top of your own saving for years on end.

I just LONG for the day when I can delete the Daft app, turn off search notifications, never attend a viewing again (for at least 5-10 years anyway!), and not lie awake with the stress and worry of it all. I'm praying to the gods of property that that time will now come! Also will never vote FG ever again.

Tallaght_Sale

My sale fell through thanks to some absolute time wasting ****s. I was incredibly patient and waited for months for them (foolish me...) and then they just casually withdrew. Professional couple as well.

Cost me a fortune in mortgage payments as I have been on variable rate expecting the house to have gone months ago. Really pissed off with it all.

On plus side estate agent confident it will go up and sell quickly again for a bit more. I just want the house gone as I have moved on with my life. Would never have dreamed of selling it otherwise. it's a beautiful 3 bed detached house with a lovely garden in south Dublin (near the square in tallaght) for around 300k+. I am very surprised the last ones pulled out.