General Election TV debates

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

It's incredible insensitive to feign outstrage at certain victims and not others. Seems like FG can celebrate certain murderers as long as the victim is ordinary Irish folk.

This is the own goal they have been scoring all along. Everybody knew and many here, including myself, predicted they would find a victim 'du jour' this week. And they did. If it wasn't Paul Quinn to be exploited it would have been somebody else off the list.

Sure the faux outrage will change a few minds, but they don't realise that it will change fewer and fewer and many will actually see it for what it is.

ThunbergsAreGo

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Just done a quick calculation. If you earn over 30,000 that will be 656 back in your pocket.

What I haven’t seen though is what the rate will be after that 30,000. It’s currently 4.5% up to income of 70,000.

Unchanged, as far as i know

Billcarson

IRA this and IRA that and what about this and what about that and blah blah blah blah blah. **** the ira.

Whataboutery when it suits. Any attempt to bring sf through the mud As if fg dont have blood on their hands for example the cervical cancer scandal.

Necro

FrancieBrady wrote:

This is the own goal they have been scoring all along. Everybody knew and many here, including myself, predicted they would find a victim 'du jour' this week. And they did. If it wasn't Paul Quinn to be exploited it would have been somebody else off the list.

Francie you seem incredibly rattled today, no smilies or anything in your posts.

I mean can you just admit that Mary Lou's stumble over the SCC and Paul Quinn were gaffes instead of moving the goalposts everytime someone brings it up

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

It's incredible insensitive to feign outstrage at certain victims and not others. Seems like FG can celebrate certain murderers as long as the victim is ordinary Irish folk.

Why didn't MLM use that tack last night or on Dobson?
You know why
Because it wouldn't wash

FrancieBrady

Necro wrote: »

Francie you seem incredibly rattled today, no smilies or anything in your posts.

I mean can you just admit that Mary Lou's stumble over the SCC and Paul Quinn were gaffes instead of moving the goalposts everytime someone brings it up

who is moving goalposts?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Why didn't MLM use that tack last night or on Dobson?
You know why
Because it wouldn't wash

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'IRA' were not involved in Paul Quinn's murder as an organisation. FACT, no whatabout's. The independent international agency tasked to monitor such things The IMC, said so clearly at the time. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. They also said that it was a local dispute about smuggling.

You know something and I'm being serious. Had Mary Lou just said what you have posted above then she would not be the laughing stock that she is this morning. In one way things might not be too bad for SF because her clusterfuk of answers on Paul Quinn and the SCC detracted from SF's comic book manifesto.

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. .

SF said something similar after Jerry McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan were riddled with bullets in Adare. And that was after first saying the Provos were not involved.

road_high

facehugger99 wrote: »

Lol - Still laughing at you calling it "a draw".

If ever a clearer sign was needed that MLM had her arse handed to her.

She was poor. Outside of the cheap rehearsed quips ( like mansplaining- if the others had said the same to her there’d be national uproar) there was nothing to suggest this is a person that could run the country. What was obvious again tonight is opponents need have no fear of her and debates expose the SF lies and disturbing policies very publicly and in a way they can’t control or manipulate

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

You don't know that and I think that's unlikely.
It's also another thing to be honest if said last night that wouldn't fly

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

SF said something similar after Jerry McCabe and Ben O'Sullivan were riddled with bullets in Adare. And that was after first saying the Provos were not involved.

If you wish to dispute the IMC, I'll leave you to it.

The facts are that is what they said.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Paul Quinn is in the debate because an RTE presenter took umbrage at a from SF MEP saying exactly that (Lynn Boylan)

Correction.
Ex M.E.P.
Another bluffer found out and dealt with by the electorate

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Correction.
Ex M.E.P.
Another bluffer found out and dealt with by the electorate

Sorry, that 'from' was meant to say 'former'.

Faugheen

Question:

People who are talking about FF and FG using Paul Quinn’s murder etc etc.

Did either of them even mention Paul Quinn last night? The only reason why he’s in the news is because his mother is trying to get justice for him and Mary Lou McDonald lied about what Conor Murphy said and did in relation to it.

To say ‘the RA weren’t involved because I spoke to them and they told me they werent’ - well can you tell the PSNI or the Gardai who you spoke to so they can decide for themselves?

SF’s vigilante past has been badly exposed and it’s clear that it still present within their party.

Many people in the ABC1 polling category will not take well to something like that.

Jim Root

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.


ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

Sir Oxman

Deleted User wrote: »

On paper I'm well paid and so, not eligible for the help to buy scheme. In reality, after rent and bills I've a lean couple of weeks ahead of me until payday when the cycle can begin again.

And this is why FG will get a whacking and so should FF.

BarryD2

MaryLou is massive Seriously she's very able at this type of PR work on TV, quick thinking, adaptable and human. A good front person who can disguise and dissemble on whatever skeletons are in the cupboard. Not just these debates but also previous ones like the Repeal 8th session.

I did think one of the funnier moments last night came when she was asked about SF policy on the environment and in particular what was meant by 'massive investment' in public EV chargers. All MaryLou could repeat was 'massive', 'it'll be massive' etc. Unfortunately Miriam let her off the hook and didn't tie her to even a rough figure like €1m or €5b or whatever. No, we're expected to just accept 'massive'

piplip87

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

Sir Oxman

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

This is a guy who was part of a gang that murdered a member of the Gardai. The woman who he started a relationship with, married and had kids with, while he was in prison is now looking to become a lawmaker......

When the IRA is brought up its ancient history even though SF campaigned for his release at the same time as the economic crash which isn't ancient history ?

Hypocrisy all over SF and the electorate will wake up to this come next Saturday and Shinnerbots will be on here/Facebook screaming about media bias, screaming about the government while sitting in Thier council houses, claiming the dole screaming about how the government does nothing for them even though it's raring Thier kid for them.....

..And that's where you fall down.

C__MC

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

gormdubhgorm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Wow, I was clearly watching something else. I thought Mary Lou came off well. With the exception of the mansplaining comment. I winced at that.

No, she didnt go into detail. SF never really do.

But it was the same from the other two, you did nothing for 9 years - we were cleaning up after you back and forth.

At the end of the day FG and FF have made a mess of things. And the only thing they united on last night was bashing Mary Lou.

I think you are showing a level of bias, here take away the party politics and just listen to the debate.
As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. It was not just the fact that she did not go into detail. By the way never being able to go into detail is hardly a good thing is it?

FG and FF did not cause the damage to SF last night Mary Lou did when being stuck for words and failing to answer questions.

optogirl

Jim Root wrote: »

My untainted observations before I read the thread as a party agnostic voter

- any idea's I may have had of throwing a bone to SF sre totally over now due to ML being caught out on homelessness in the North figures, Paul Quinn and nonsensical climate change policy. She blew it and would have been better off not attending at all. she didn't come across as trustworthy.

-Leo, albeit uncomfortable, was very well briefed, remained statesmanlike and delivered some classic rebuttals - the John Delaney line and Mary Lou regretting joining FF were fantastic. He is clearly a weak leader though and was rightly pulled up on the various FG messers like Bailey running rings around him.

-Micheal, clearly a skilled and able politician but struck me as stale & with too much blood on his hands for the failures of the past. This "for the good of the nation" rhetoric justifying maintaining the S&C deal is a nonesense and he knows it.

So no clear winner, but Mary Lou definitely came out the worst.


ps. I think it's outrageous that Miriam was allowed to be in the hotseat given her brother is running for FF.

The John Delaney line was cringeworthy. Especially considering Leo was Minister for Sport during JD's tenure.

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

To say ‘the RA weren’t involved because I spoke to them and they told me they werent’ - well can you tell the PSNI or the Gardai who you spoke to so they can decide for themselves?

According to the IMC the IRA were not involved at an organisational level.

In May, the Independent Monitoring Commission found that the IRA organisation did not kill Paul Quinn although "local members or former members" of the republican group were involved in his murder.

Not sure what more can be said about it. But carry on, it is clear that no matter what was said, holes would have been found.

It is also clear that to a large extent this attack stuff is not working.

Calhoun

I would say McGrath would hold his own both FF and FG have some liabilities when it comes to front bench.

Sir Oxman

C__MC wrote: »

I think Thursdays debate will be hugely interesting

Fianna Fail have a weak front bench behind micheal martin

Coveney and Doherty are very strong politicians in my view, so they really have a chance to enhance what their party is offering

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

As one of the neutral analysts put in after the debate Mary Lou obfuscated and waffled. .

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I thought Thursday's is for Labour, SD, Green, SPBP and Aontu?

Finance ministers on 6 One news tonight.

BarryD2

piplip87 wrote: »

The IRA is not ancient history though. Pearse MC Cauley got a hero's welcome from SF when released in 2009.

Forget 2009, think 2019 and the Sinn Féin Ard Fhéis. Mary Lou speech broadcast across the country sending warm wishes to John Downey, convicted of Hyde Park bombing. https://www.donegaldaily.com/2019/12/18/high-court-rules-john-downey-was-responsible-for-ira-bombing/

That's the true nature of the party and it's members, what they want to hear etc.

But voters in this Republic???????

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Is there a leadership coup stirring within FG?

I see the Indo are running with a headline hinting at one.

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

He described Sinn Féin's finance spokesperson Pearse Doherty as a good debater, but also called him "arrogant" and "overconfident".

"He's not cautious enough for finance," he said.

Mr Noonan questioned Sinn Féin's suitability for office, citing how former Sinn Féin finance minister in Stormont Máirtín Ó Muilleoir sought permission from an unelected party member to sign off on a controversial renewable energy scheme in the North.

"He was looking for permission to make a decision, and he was the finance minister. Do you think I was ringing some 5'8 in west Limerick to get permission to do things in the budget?" he asked.