General Election TV debates

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They all did this. A lot. :rolleyes:

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not as much as Mary it was a bad show from her. Not very statesman/woman like. I would say Pearse Doherty fans in SF are thinking it is thier fella's job shortly.

I'll take that as a biased position given your posting here.

My own view is biased too, but I accept that at various points they all blustered and obfuscated. Michael Martin being the worst culprit imo.

He has separated himself from everything bad that has happened in this country in the last 20 years.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'IRA' were not involved in Paul Quinn's murder as an organisation. FACT, no whatabout's. The independent international agency tasked to monitor such things The IMC, said so clearly at the time. They said, some of those involved were members of the IRA but it had no sanction at an organisational level. They also said that it was a local dispute about smuggling.

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Read the article. No, there isnt.

But Noonan also says this.

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

marieholmfan

markodaly wrote: »

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

Kingsmill was carried out by the South Armagh Republican Action Force not the IRA.
Kingsmill stopped the Glennane gang.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Ah good ol Francie. Covering up acts of barbarism from their Provo friends yet again. Guess Kingsmill was an accident as well.
If the IRA was not involved, why is SF implicated? Why did Connor Murphy have inside information on who was who? Did he go to the Gardai or PSNI with this information?

Put simply it lifts the lid on what many of the PIRA members were like. Killers with no remorse.
Remember, no one has been convicted of the murder of Paul Quinn.

Mark...for the IMC to make the decision it did, they had to have known who was involved, where did they get that information, intelligence? From the PSNI, who also know.

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

As per the terms of the bailout no, which was in part because of the bank guarantee, which SF voted for.

THen again SF has advocated a No vote for EVERY SINGLE EU treaty ever to come before the Irish people, but now because of Brexit, you swear they are the most europhile group ever. :D

SF really stands for the 'protest party'.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

Astonishing, yet these SF members are free men today, never to see the inside of a court room.
Why is that I wonder?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

As per the terms of the bailout no, which was in part because of the bank guarantee, which SF voted for.

THen again SF has advocated a No vote for EVERY SINGLE EU treaty ever to come before the Irish people, but now because of Brexit, you swear they are the most europhile group ever. :D

SF really stands for the 'protest party'.

And we pivot to something else. Good man Mark!

Faugheen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mark...for the IMC to make the decision it did, they had to have known who was involved, where did they get that information, intelligence? From the PSNI, who also know.

I can assure you, being a local, that everyone knows who was involved.

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

thequarefellow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did he talk about the time he had to send his budget to every finance minister in Europe before he presented it to us?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/ireland-budget-germany-leak

I never knew of this. What a f***ing hypocrite Michael Noonan is

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And we pivot to something else. Good man Mark!

Pivot?

You, my good sir, mentioned something that happened 7 years ago, that has NOTHING to do with this GE. But give yourself a pat on the back anyway.

Whelo79

Two things puzzle me from last night's debate and MLM's so called two 'big slip ups'

1. On the SCC. She clearly stated she was in favour of our judicial system and that the SCC required reviewing to see if it is fit for purpose. Seeing as we are the only country in Europe with such a court and the fact that Amnesty International and The UN among others call for it to be abolished, what exactly is MLM being lambasted about here?

2. On the Paul Quinn issue, by the hysteria in here you would think SF are in some way responsible for the horrible death he suffered and MLM was somehow tricked into taking responsibility for it. The issue being discussed is not directly about the murder of PQ but about a statement made by Conor Murphy. This is actually a Conor Murphy issue, he made a statement 12-13 years ago regarding PQ alleged involvement in criminality prior to his murder. CM recently advised MLM that he did not make that statement (which she recounted in the Dobson interview) Last night MLM corrected this and said CM had in fact made the statement and he retracts the claim and would apologise to the family of PQ. Only after this correction of the facts did Miriam bring up the Dobson interview. So is the issue here that a politician incorrectly recounted a statement he made from 12 years, or that maybe he purposefully lied about a statement and got caught out? Imagine, a politician trying to deny they said something when in fact they actually had said it. It happens every day if the week! It happened several times last night in the debate.

I don't think these are the big MLM/SF have been exposed moments some people would like to think they are. I still think they will drop in the polls slightly, 18-21% and that both FF and FG will take a higher percentage of first preference votes.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Astonishing, yet these SF members are free men today, never to see the inside of a court room.
Why is that I wonder?

Well you seem to want people who weren't there to give evidence against them.

You want to ignore what the IMC said about the case (You know those people who investigated the case) that it was 'a local dispute about smuggling'.

Who said they were members of 'SF' by the way? Any back up on that?

markodaly

Faugheen wrote: »

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

You see, people in these communities know who these men are. Its the same with the Quinn kidnapping. The Provos are now hired goons to do drity work, but is the ordinary Joe Soap going to go against the PIRA and SF?

These guys still strike fear into some communities.

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

pjohnson

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

FrancieBrady

Faugheen wrote: »

Then why won’t Conor Murphy tell these members of the IRA - that he claimed he spoke to - to speak to the PSNI or the Gardai?

Also, this ‘the organisation wasn’t, just some members’ stick doesn’t make people go ‘oh ok then’.

The IRA as an organisation was not involved.

Other than asking for those with info to come forward I am not sure what it is you expect SF to do?


Why would SF have any more credible evidence than the IMC or the PSNI or the local community in general?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'll take that as a biased position given your posting here.

My own view is biased too, but I accept that at various points they all blustered and obfuscated. Michael Martin being the worst culprit imo.

He has separated himself from everything bad that has happened in this country in the last 20 years.

That is true but he did not end up being dumbstruck, and like a rabbit in headlights. Mary Lou appeared out of her league when she had to go off script and her confidence vanished - the Quinn question - the special courts etc. The body language stiffened. The face dropped there was a look of panic.

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

According to the IMC the IRA were not involved at an organisational level.



Not sure what more can be said about it. But carry on, it is clear that no matter what was said, holes would have been found.

It is also clear that to a large extent this attack stuff is not working.

Why did no Sinn Fein MLA vote for the motion in the Northern Ireland Assembly condemning the murder of Paul Quinn and calling on those with information on the murder to come forward?

A strange stance from warriors for justice don’t you think?

smurgen

pjohnson wrote: »

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

The same FF that had a taoiseach gun running for the Ra.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is true but he did not end up being dumbstruck, and like a rabbit in headlights. Mary Lou appeared out of her league when she had to go off script and her confidence vanished - the Quinn question - the special courts etc. The body language stiffened. The face dropped there was a look of panic.

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

Yes, I can see how somebody who clearly, based on their previous posting, wants to maintain the power swap in this country, could look at the debate in that light.

The issue is, how many are like you I suppose.

Necro

Whelo79 wrote:

I don't think these are the big MLM/SF have been exposed moments some people would like to think they are. I still think they will drop in the polls slightly, 18-21% and that both FF and FG will take a higher percentage of first preference votes.

You think SF support will actually be that high?

I have serious doubts about their vote force mobilising tbh.

And anyways, as I keep saying and others seem to forget, 42 candidates total will not translate to 42 to seats, it just won't

25 seats I reckon. 28 absolute max.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Why did no Sinn Fein MLA vote for the motion in the Northern Ireland Assembly condemning the murder of Paul Quinn and calling on those with information on the murder to come forward?

A strange stance from warriors for justice don’t you think?

SF are now expected to vote for motions condemning them? Seriously SS???? :D:D

thequarefellow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I remember SF supporters were saying it was a chance for SF to do well pre-debate as FF/FG would attack SF. I thought this might happen as well. But MM and Leo played smart. Mary Lou managed to do most of the harm to herself not by what the others said.

Yes, fair dues to MM and LV for reading the situation well and not hounding on her too much. But her performance didn't lose her any supporters. Did she gain any new ones? Probably not. I actually think LV did well in this debate. He had the most difficult job to do up there. Promise change while also defend his record in office. I thought he did this very well when attacked on the health issue for example. I thought MM looked very shaky when he was reminded of his gung-ho support of Bertie Ahern. The Finance minister without a bank account. The leader who explained away large cash deposits as a good day in the bookies. Micheal Martin is forever tainted and i will never vote FF as long as he is at the helm. I refuse to vote FG because they allow fraudster Alan Farrell stand. I was going to vote SF but I think I will now vote Independent or Green.

gormdubhgorm

Whelo79 wrote: »

Two things puzzle me from last night's debate and MLM's so called two 'big slip ups'

1. On the SCC. She clearly stated she was in favour of our judicial system and that the SCC required reviewing to see if it is fit for purpose. Seeing as we are the only country in Europe with such a court and the fact that Amnesty International and The UN among others call for it to be abolished, what exactly is MLM being lambasted about here?

Because historically the special crimnal courts were used to round up those who were members of illegal organisations and threats to the ROI.
Many members of SF either tactically supported/support a certain illegal organisation or were members of a certain illegal organisation.

2. On the Paul Quinn issue, by the hysteria in here you would think SF are in some way responsible for the horrible death he suffered and MLM was somehow tricked into taking responsibility for it. The issue being discussed is not directly about the murder of PQ but about a statement made by Conor Murphy. This is actually a Conor Murphy issue, he made a statement 12-13 years ago regarding PQ alleged involvement in criminality prior to his murder. CM recently advised MLM that he did not make that statement (which she recounted in the Dobson interview) Last night MLM corrected this and said CM had in fact made the statement and he retracts the claim and would apologise to the family of PQ. Only after this correction of the facts did Miriam bring up the Dobson interview. So is the issue here that a politician incorrectly recounted a statement he made from 12 years, or that maybe he purposefully lied about a statement and got caught out? Imagine, a politician trying to deny they said something when in fact they actually had said it. It happens every day if the week! It happened several times last night in the debate.

This question was connected to your first point those connected to illegal organisations and the covering up of same. What really caught Mary Lou out was that she was not prepared for the quote from Conor Murphy. Previously she tried to throw cold water on the issue and was stumped. I felt a bit sorry for her trying to distance herself from the shady past of SF for the ROI voters - but just when she thought she was out they pulled her back in.

I imagine this was Mary Lou's thought process as she stumbled over her answer about the Conor Murphy quote.

SafeSurfer

smurgen wrote: »

The same FF that had a taoiseach gun running for the Ra.

What would the stock Sinn Fein answer be to this allegation?

If you have any evidence of this you should bring it to the Gardaí or PSNI. I would encourage you to take the Sinn Fein advice.

Hamsterchops

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I'm watching The Spin Room thing and they spoke to students from UCD. There was one from the Green Party(I think) and she said Mary Lou spoke about climate change the best or did I hear all that wrong.

The three UCD students agreed that Mary Lou came out best, and that she had addressed their issues, one of the students also said that Sinn Fein would supply 100.000 new homes, but that Labour would only provide 80.000, so Sinn Fein was best

Ah bless, the innocence of youth.

blanch152

pjohnson wrote: »

FF and FG acolytes doing great. Dragging things back to the troubles to try and distract from their own far more recent disasters.

Paul Quinn was beaten to death in 2007, hardly the era of the Troubles.

quokula

thequarefellow wrote: »

Yes, fair dues to MM and LV for reading the situation well and not hounding on her too much. But her performance didn't lose her any supporters. Did she gain any new ones? Probably not. I actually think LV did well in this debate. He had the most difficult job to do up there. Promise change while also defend his record in office. I thought he did this very well when attacked on the health issue for example. I thought MM looked very shaky when he was reminded of his gung-ho support of Bertie Ahern. The Finance minister without a bank account. The leader who explained away large cash deposits as a good day in the bookies. Micheal Martin is forever tainted and i will never vote FF as long as he is at the helm. I refuse to vote FG because they allow fraudster Alan Farrell stand. I was going to vote SF but I think I will now vote Independent or Green.

Sounds like it lost one supporter at least. While it's true that a lot of their hardcore support will wave away the blunders, I think there will be a lot of people who are not quite so loyal - after all recent local, European and presidential election results suggests most of this support is newly won.

Hamsterchops

markodaly wrote: »

You see, people in these communities know who these men are. Its the same with the Quinn kidnapping. The Provos are now hired goons to do drity work, but is the ordinary Joe Soap going to go against the PIRA and SF?

These guys still strike fear into some communities.

Francie just admitted that he and everyone knows who was behind this murder. Yet not one charge was brought forward.
This tells its own story, and people want these people in government? :rolleyes:

Problem is, many younger voters don't really care about all that, they don't care about the special criminal courts either, they just want change, and they love Mary Lou and the way she smiles and makes smart "one liners", they like the way she talks.