General Election TV debates

KrustyUCC

Water John wrote: »

Don't think any one in FG or FF were putting words into Conor Murphy's mouth, which MLMc then denied he said, but then was confronted with the evidence.

This really was not a good look for MLMD or SF

"Miriam O’Callaghan (MO’C): Mary Lou McDonald you know of course about Breege Quinn, the mother of Paul Quinn, the 21-year-old who was so horrifically beaten to death in November 2007. She is asking for an apology from your minister for finance in the North, Conor Murphy, because he aligned her son to criminality. You were due to speak to minister Murphy today — did you speak to him to clarify?

Mary Lou McDonald (MM): I did Miriam, and you’re right. Paul Quinn got a horrific death and the only criminals, to be clear, involved in this scenario were the people who so cruelly and viciously took his life. I have spoken to Conor. He is aware that the comments he made after the murder of Paul Quinn have caused hurt and that hurt has endured. So he apologises for those remarks. He withdraws those remarks and he’ll speak to Breege Quinn and the family directly. I’ve had the view that he needs to speak to the family directly.

MO’C : I was watching you last night being interviewed by Bryan Dobson and you said then, and this is a quote from you: “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

MM: Yes.

MO’C: So you’ve changed your position?

MM: In a way, Miriam, what matters is what the family have heard and what matters is that the family . . .

MO’C: What matters is what he said, because, actually, we found the quote today. It was on the BBC in November 2007, a month after Paul was murdered, and what minister Murphy said and I’ll quote him again verbatim on the BBC: “Paul Quinn was involved in smuggling and criminality. I think everyone accepts that. As I say, this is a very difficult situation as there is a family grieving and I don’t want to add to their grief.”

MM: So, look, let me just say those things should not have been said. Those things should not have been said. Conor withdraws them and apologises . . .

MO’C: But last night you said they weren’t said.

MM: Pardon me?

MO’C: Last night you said they weren’t said.

MM: To be honest with you Miriam, my recollection was that he had not been as explicit as that. The remarks were wrong. They are withdrawn, correctly, and will be apologised for directly to Mrs Quinn and to her family . . .

MO’C: So your remarks to Bryan last night were wrong too?

MM: Yes. Well, obviously I was not . . . I remembered Conor being not quite as direct on this matter.

MO’C: But he had told you that he is very clear, you said, that he never said that and that is not his view. He had told you he had never said that. Were you annoyed that he had said that?

MM: That’s not it. My sole concern in this is that the family have been hurt and the remarks made need to be withdrawn and apologised for — that’s the correct thing to do and that’s what Conor will do.

MO’C: So Conor Murphy is going to apologise to Breege Quinn?

MM: Absolutely. It is the correct and decent thing to do. A family that has lost their son in such brutal circumstances doesn’t need the additional hurt and grief of those remarks.

MO’C: And, finally, I heard Breege Quinn on Drivetime, actually, talking to Mary Wilson and she also just said that she would like minister Murphy to go to the PSNI or the gardaí and just give the names of the men, the IRA men in Cullyhanna he spoke to. Would he do that as well do you think because Breege Quinn wants that?

MM: What I am sure of, and I’m sure of these facts having spoken again to Conor, is that he has in fact spoken to the PSNI and to the gardaí. They have to investigate this matter. People with information need to bring it to . . .

MO’C: And given the names of the men he spoke to?

MM: . . . need to bring that information forward.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-debate-transcript-of-paul-quinn-question-put-to-mcdonald-1.4162434

Mary Lou won't get Murphy to resign though

Edgware

marieholmfan wrote: »

The problems attributed to high rise flats exist in Summerhill in Dublin and Moyross in Limerick and Crumlin and Neilstown and Fettercairn. Essentially they are policing problems.


It is a statement of fact that the Gardai did far more to stop Communities Concerned About Drugs then they ever did or have done to stop drug dealing.


I wonder why.

That is absolute rubbish. C.P.A D. members ( also linked with.S.F.) kicked a poor drug addict Josie Dwyerto death in Dolphins Barn. Josie was in a severe stage of addiction, physically very weak and a soft target for the hard men.
Some of the thugs were given prison sentences for the killing.
The Guards have put many leading drug dealers behind bars

Idbatterim

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

The luas in a fine system? I’m back here later sending you a link o a thread on boards about the shot show it is. No , we don’t have water charges but cause ffg are spineless. That’s why. While initially I thought they were a sound idea , there’d e exemptions for all the usual suspects and the other usual suspects would end up paying for everything !

Call me Al

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There never was a doubt in my mind that SF were a party emerging from a conflict/war situation. That is never an easy thing to do nor an easy thing to navigate. The early years of our own emergence as a state was littered with acrimonious allegations and accusations, so much so that it was decided to lock away testimonies until the people involved were dead.


But I have also long ago accepted that SF have put that behind them.
The allegations still come when they put their heads too far over the parapet, from people who couldn't give a hoot about the victims when SF are offering no threat electorally.
I think SF's surge shows that more and more people are also accepting this and recognising what FG and FF are doing when they exploit victims and their families.

But Francie,
This murder was only 12 years ago.
12 years.
Not 50 years or 40 years back in the troubles.
This murder has nothing to do with war.

The mother herself is pushing for these answers and convictions, whilst her child's killers walk the streets around her.

Idbatterim

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And you know why we have boil notices in 2020 now because of the protests from the fringe left on water charges. The luas works perfectly fine and is a great system to get around the place. More eco friendly as well.

As regards infrastructure - the M17 M8, and M20 came out of thin air did they?

You hit the nail on the head. All these rural motorways, one area where no expense was spared ! And the one badly needed project the m20 between limerick and cork , not delivered. What a surprise!

markodaly

maccored wrote: »

says the northern expert

Well at least I dont want Chinese building standards in Ireland, and all that entails.

maccored

Call me Al wrote: »

But Francie,
This murder was only 12 years ago.
12 years.
Not 50 years or 40 years back in the troubles.
This murder has nothing to do with war.

The mother herself is pushing for these answers and convictions, whilst her child's killers walk the streets around her.

what has that to do with SF though, in this election?

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

Well at least I dont want Chinese building standards in Ireland, and all that entails.

feel free to state where I said I wanted Chinese building standards, oh supporter of the most expensive hospital in the world. more waffle.

Call me Al

maccored wrote: »

what has that to do with SF though, in this election?

The party's reaction has everything to do with this election.

markodaly

maccored wrote: »

feel free to state where I said I wanted Chinese building standards, oh supporter of the most expensive hospital in the world. more waffle.

Not at all.
You drew a false equivalence into the NCH and the Chinese 'hospital' (more like prefabs) that was built in 10 days, as if it's a valid comparison.

Its also not the most expensive hospital in the world but in the world of post-facts, I don't care either way.

KrustyUCC

Breege Quinn finally forced Mary Lou into a corner, but it took an election - not simple human decency from SF - to get an apology
Mairia Cahill

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/breege-quinn-finally-forced-mary-lou-into-a-corner-but-it-took-an-election-not-simple-human-decency-from-sf-to-get-an-apology-38929296.html

The clip of Murphy on the BBC is linked to in the article along with Gerry Adams view at the time

Funny that Mary Lou believed “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

smurgen

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Breege Quinn finally forced Mary Lou into a corner, but it took an election - not simple human decency from SF - to get an apology
Mairia Cahill

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/breege-quinn-finally-forced-mary-lou-into-a-corner-but-it-took-an-election-not-simple-human-decency-from-sf-to-get-an-apology-38929296.html

The clip of Murphy on the BBC is linked to in the article along with Gerry Adams view at the time

Funny that Mary Lou believed “I have spoken to Conor Murphy about this issue before. He is very clear that he never said that, that that is not his view.”

Don't really care to be honest and to be fair Bertie Ahearn more or less said the same thing about the lad but I didn't see MM being asked about it last night. But anyway keep up the IRA SF drum because I tell you what. The tactic is going for backfire spectacularly.
The average Joe cares about their bottom line and FG is refusing to address it. Two thousand people protesting about childcare in Dublin today. Yet government and RTE fail to acknowledge this.

maccored

Call me Al wrote: »

The party's reaction has everything to do with this election.

that Murphy went to see if he could find out what had happened? I hate to mention it but what if he's telling the truth? He even said himself at the time it wasnt the kind of thing to be talking about since a family was suffering - yet here it is 12 years later being dragged out as a political football.

youre basically telling me he would have been better to not bother trying to find out any info for the family at all.

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

Not at all.
You drew a false equivalence into the NCH and the Chinese 'hospital' (more like prefabs) that was built in 10 days, as if it's a valid comparison.

Its also not the most expensive hospital in the world but in the world of post-facts, I don't care either way.

and that equates to wanting Chinese building regulations in ireland? Whatever the hell youre smoking, can I have some?

markodaly

maccored wrote: »

and that equates to wanting Chinese building regulations in ireland? Whatever the hell youre smoking, can I have some?

So why bring it up as some sort of benchmark we should be aiming for?

'Oh look, the Chinese can build a hospital in ten days, why can't we do that?'
People who take the above point as gospel are useful idiots.

maccored

markodaly wrote: »

So why bring it up as some sort of benchmark we should be aiming for?

'Oh look, the Chinese can build a hospital in ten days, why can't we do that?'
People who take the above point as gospel are useful idiots.

I said that? Cop on and stop digging. I made a reference to the fact a hospital can be built in 10 days and here we are waiting years and years for a really expensive one. Never did I say I wanted chinese building standards. Also, the hospital in china is quite a bit more than prefabs. Keep smoking whatever your smoking and keep your illusions to yourself there fella. obviously you have no point to make

JohnnyFlash

The hypocrisy of some SF voters is astonishing. It normally comes with a generous side dish of victimhood as well. They expect such standards from other politicians when their own crew are slithering out from under rocks to give half-arsed statements around ‘regret’ regarding things like the murder of a young man in a shed by 10 ‘good republicans’ armed with iron bars.

Not a normal party.

maccored

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The hypocrisy of some SF voters is astonishing. It normally comes with a generous side dish of victimhood as well. They expect such standards from other politicians when their own crew are slithering out from under rocks to give half-arsed statements around ‘regret’ regarding things like the murder of a young man in a shed by 10 ‘good republicans’ armed with iron bars.

Not a normal party.

what has that murder got to do with SF - when will one of you answer that?

FrancieBrady

maccored wrote: »

that Murphy went to see if he could find out what had happened? I hate to mention it but what if he's telling the truth? He even said himself at the time it wasnt the kind of thing to be talking about since a family was suffering - yet here it is 12 years later being dragged out as a political football.

youre basically telling me he would have been better to not bother trying to find out any info for the family at all.

A clip from the same Independent from the time shows that the family also knew he had been involved in criminality. Will any journalist ask the hard questions here...of course they won't, there are cruxifications to be held.

It is the family's belief -- contrary to the claims by Sinn Fein, which are now supported by both governments and the DUP -- that Paul Quinn was not murdered because of his very minor role in criminal activities but because the sons of two of the main figures in the major Provisional IRA crime gang in south Armagh had lost face in the fights.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/loss-of-face-led-to-brutal-ira-killing-26332513.html

As usual, because people exploit these things, the truths get lost in the mudslinging.
And it has ended up exactly where those who exploit victims want them to end...a party, and members, damned if they do address the issue and damned if they don't, the 'have you stopped beating your wife' question.

maccored

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A clip from the same Independent from the time shows that the family also knew he had been involved in criminality. Will any journalist ask the hard questions here...of course they won't, there are cruxifications to be held.



https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/loss-of-face-led-to-brutal-ira-killing-26332513.html

As usual, because people exploit these things, the truths get lost in the mudslinging.
And it has ended up exactly where those who exploit victims want them to end...a party, and members, damned if they do address the issue and damned if they don't, the 'have you stopped beating your wife' question.

and its the same old same old on here with the same anti shinners posting the same bollox. I didnt want SF in government this time round, but Im rooting for a SF led left government now after reading and watching the bull****

Fr_Dougal

thequarefellow wrote: »

But they haven't done so. There are countless examples of attractive high rise living all over Europe. I've lived in some. Just f***ing do it! Go abroad, look at good examples of same, with the necessary infrastructure, and do it! But they haven't.
I would argue that people don't necessarily want gardens judging by the amount of neglected gardens that I see everywhere. Kids don't even play in gardens anymore. And social housing should be a case of take it or leave it anyway.

People forget that it’s the local councils that get to decide this. They also forget that up until very recently, SF had the majority vote in Dublin councils.

What did they do? They stopped people building up.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A clip from the same Independent from the time shows that the family also knew he had been involved in criminality. Will any journalist ask the hard questions here...of course they won't, there are cruxifications to be held.



https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/loss-of-face-led-to-brutal-ira-killing-26332513.html

As usual, because people exploit these things, the truths get lost in the mudslinging.
And it has ended up exactly where those who exploit victims want them to end...a party, and members, damned if they do address the issue and damned if they don't, the 'have you stopped beating your wife' question.

You are the king of twisting here, this is just the lowest of the lows that you have sunk to. The article says, and I quote

"It is the family's belief -- contrary to the claims by Sinn Fein, which are now supported by both governments and the DUP -- that Paul Quinn was not murdered because of his very minor role in criminal activities but because the sons of two of the main figures in the major Provisional IRA crime gang in south Armagh had lost face in the fights"


That clearly states, as I show in bold that the reference to the role in criminal activities was a reference to the claims by Sinn Fein, and not an admission by the family.

Really disgusted by your post.

Whelo79

Water John wrote: »

Don't think any one in FG or FF were putting words into Conor Murphy's mouth, which MLMc then denied he said, but then was confronted with the evidence.

This is not exactly how it happened, but it is how certain people are portraying it.

Monday night with Dobson ML stated that CM claimed he did not make the allegation against PQ and that she was going to stay with him on the matter again too make contact with the Quinn family. Last night on the the leaders debate ML said she had spoke with CM and he had accepted responsibility on the matter and apologiesed unreservedly to the Quinn family. It was only then did Miriam jump in with the BBC Spotlight quote, after ML had already changed her position from the night before.

It makes a refreshing change for a politician to clarify a matter and to amend their original opinion as ML did BEFORE they have been supposedly 'caught out'.

EarlyStorms

Very obvious media offensive against SF & Mary Lou today, I don't think it's going to have much impact on what happens this weekend though.

Billcarson

maccored wrote: »

what has that to do with SF though, in this election?

That's exactly the thought that comes to my mind. Wtf has it to do with the election? Jesus the anti shinners have milked the sf and the IRA stuff to death at this stage . How many more yrs will they milk it. The same tired ol ****e.

Has no bearing personally speaking on my vote on Saturday. I'm still going to vote sf.

Quantum Erasure

blanch152 wrote: »

You are the king of twisting here, this is just the lowest of the lows that you have sunk to. The article says, and I quote

"It is the family's belief -- contrary to the claims by Sinn Fein, which are now supported by both governments and the DUP -- that Paul Quinn was not murdered because of his very minor role in criminal activities but because the sons of two of the main figures in the major Provisional IRA crime gang in south Armagh had lost face in the fights"


That clearly states, as I show in bold that the reference to the role in criminal activities was a reference to the claims by Sinn Fein, and not an admission by the family.

Really disgusted by your post.

You're ignoring the punctuation there, it's you who is twisting that quote

gormdubhgorm

Idbatterim wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head. All these rural motorways, one area where no expense was spared ! And the one badly needed project the m20 between limerick and cork , not delivered. What a surprise!

Sure the m20 between limerick and cork is in the pipeline. Everything can't be done all at once. You just seem like a negative nelly, glass half empty type.
Ireland is in a much better position than both of thier much larger neigbours to the east (USA) and the west (UK).

I assume you would be giving out no matter who is in government, more power to ya. But it is not all doom and gloom the country has near full employment.
It is a peaceful country with no strong extremes in politics in general.

After last night's debate Labour, FF, FG will only want to further distance themselves from SF. It will only be when SF is more honest and open will the 'normal' political parties go into coalition with them. But unfortunately SF are handicapped from doing so by still having to play to the provo vote. As evidenced by Mary Lou's answers last night.

James Brown

McMurphy wrote: »

Is there a leadership coup stirring within FG?

I see the Indo are running with a headline hinting at one.

Yes thought that was oddly timed days before an election. You'd know Dinny is out. Noonan must have it in for Varadkar.
They've an article, opinion piece, on ML with a picture of Lyra McKee and reference how she was shot by the 'new IRA'. At least the bias and blarney is multiparty.
You would think we'd nothing to concern ourselves with before they used Paul Quinn's mother.
It's like your house is on fire and you ask the closest fire truck about Paul Quinn, the answer dependent on whether you let them take a go at the flames.

Necro

Strawberry Milkshake wrote:

I like where they say politicians AND public servants should be held accountable for their actions and waste. Any other candidate just says they want to invest in health and that’s not helping the health crisis imo.

Renua's policies are actually ok.

It's the whole intertwining with Catholicism that makes them look like a bunch of right wing Neanderthals tbh.

If they dropped that shtick they'd be more appealing, I particularly like their views on crime.

Suckit

EarlyStorms wrote: »

Very obvious media offensive against SF & Mary Lou today, I don't think it's going to have much impact on what happens this weekend though.

It is painfully obvious.

I think some on the fence may be swayed and some younger voters may not have heard the details being printed today, but for anyone else that had planned on voting SF before last night, it shouldn't change a thing.
They were well aware of SF links etc.
They were and may be still planning on voting for SF for a change, shake up. Sick of the other two. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people planning on voting SF this weekend wouldn't normally be SF voters, it is FFFG that have driven them to this, so really they only have themselves to blame. I would also agree with you that what is written today and tomorrow probably won't change anything for a lot of them.
It's pretty predictable what will happen if FF/FG get in again, there is 100 years of it to look back over in case anybody is unsure.