General Election TV debates

KrustyUCC

realdanbreen wrote: »

He's talking to Tommy Orman on drive time now. He's actually making a bigger bollocking of it THAN ML did!

Yup refused to answer where he got the information from

Not a good explanation on the change from Dobbo interview to the debate last night from Mary Lou

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SF have an almost 40 year conflict/war in their recent history...where have you been?
Of course they are not a 'normal party' in the sense the modern FG or FF party are. But they too once emerged from a decade or more of bitter and violent struggle.

Well at least you acknowledge it happened that is a start.
What yourself and Matt Barrett are prone to do is pick the nice bits from SF's history and then claim anything else is a political game or points scoring.

Most SF reps just are incapable of being honest due to 'the almost 40 year war' as you put it. That really damages thier credibility. The younger voters may not see how disingenuous this is. But the older voters can as it was more real to them.
Even 12 years ago is a long time ago when you are in your 30's.
As the saying goes oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The sad thing is that because it has been turned into a political football, by people with agenda's other than the welfare of the victims, the truth of it just gets murkier and murkier.

It is a real irony that you use the word murky. If there is any word that sums up SF it is the word murky. Other parties do not have the blessing and curse of that veneer.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well at least you acknowledge it happened that is a start.
What yourself and Matt Barrett are prone to do is pick the nice bits from SF's history and then claim anything else is a political game or points scoring.

Most SF reps just are incapable of being honest due to 'the almost 40 year war' as you put it. That really damages thier credibility. The younger voters may not see how disingenuous this is. But the older voters can as it was more real to them.
Even 12 years ago is a long time ago when you are in your 30's.
As the saying goes oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

That's lies. Link?
I never raised any issues about SF/ML outside of the election unless responding directly on something.
SF have a dodgy past and dodgy candidates with a criminal history and ties to former IRA. Never would deny it or sugar coat it.
As regards the 2020 election, SF are our best hope IMO. I'd rather the SD's, but I'll back SF too.
FF/FG are running scared and using genuine victims to score points. So be it. I don't think many are going to be swayed.
FF/FG will be damaged this time around.

gormdubhgorm

Richard tea wrote: »

Nobody cares. Its a 13 year old story brought up in order to sling mud at SF. An undesirable got mixed in with other undesirables and it led to an undesirable situation.

Also didnt the media at the time mention the victim was involved in criminality?

Hang on a minute a 13 year old story it is not just a story a fella was bludgeoned to death with links to SF. With SF protecting the alleged individual.

Yet at the same time people go on about FF causing the crash nobody got killed because of it - but it is OK to mention that because it happened 1 year later in 2008!

JupiterKid

I don't think that anyone can disagree that Mary Lou was pretty disappointing in the debate last night.

She got off to an okay start in the debate, but was shockingly poor when questioned about the Special Criminal Court - I would have thought she would have been well prepared for that question - and she blew it. Mary Lou was also very vague on how Sinn Fein's very ambitious social housing programme manifesto would be funded in a sustainable and equitable manner.

Her performance last night will definitely cost them votes on Saturday, particularly with the undecideds and those thinking of voting for the Shinners for the first time ever.

Micheal Martin came out the best of the three. Leo V was wooden, detached, awkward and smug as always. But none of the three really stood out.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on a minute a 13 year old story it is not just a story a fella was bludgeoned to death with links to SF. With SF protecting the alleged individual.

Yet at the same time people go on about FF causing the crash nobody got killed because of it - but it is OK to mention that because it happened 1 year later in 2008!

Now that's a story. He was engaged in activities with criminals and got killed. There endeth the facts.

is_that_so

Richard tea wrote: »

Nobody cares. Its a 13 year old story brought up in order to sling mud at SF. An undesirable got mixed in with other undesirables and it led to an undesirable situation.

Also didnt the media at the time mention the victim was involved in criminality?

The current story is about the comments by a SF MLA and a party leader denying on TV that he had said it until the quote was found.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That's lies. Link?
I never raised any issues about SF/ML outside of the election unless responding directly on something.
SF have a dodgy past and dodgy candidates with a criminal history and ties to former IRA. Never would deny it or sugar coat it.
As regards the 2020 election, SF are our best hope IMO. I'd rather the SD's, but I'll back SF too.
FF/FG are running scared and using genuine victims to score points. So be it. I don't think many are going to be swayed.
FF/FG will be damaged this time around.

I must have being mixing you up with the Matt Barrett poster so apologies.
It is not just a tactic to look for answers about SF/IRA murders in the recent past. It is politicians doing thier job shining a light on the make up of the party and helping to look for answers for the victims. I do not see anything wrong with that.
If FF/FG were linked with murders that were never solved you can be damn sure I would want to know what the craic was.

SF try to pretend to be a normal party but do not want to face up to thier abnormalities.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I will give you a few minutes to produce ... 3 examples of them using his name in this election campaign. If they 'constantly' use him then it should be easy to produce links.

Your time starts now......1...2....3....

Hold on now, I never mentioned this campaign?

Does it matter when it was used?

Does that make it any less of political point scoring?

Jinglejangle69

Richard tea wrote: »

Nobody cares. Its a 13 year old story brought up in order to sling mud at SF. An undesirable got mixed in with other undesirables and it led to an undesirable situation.

Also didnt the media at the time mention the victim was involved in criminality?

Have you a link to his criminality?

tobsey

smurgen wrote: »

Don't really care to be honest and to be fair Bertie Ahearn more or less said the same thing about the lad but I didn't see MM being asked about it last night. But anyway keep up the IRA SF drum because I tell you what. The tactic is going for backfire spectacularly.
The average Joe cares about their bottom line and FG is refusing to address it. Two thousand people protesting about childcare in Dublin today. Yet government and RTE fail to acknowledge this.

Bertie Ahern did not say the same thing. He initially said the killing was related to criminal activity, not terrorist activity. He clarified in the Dail one month later that he meant the criminals were the perpetrators of the crime, not Paul Quinn. It took 14 years and a car crash from SF’s leader in a tv debate for them to do the same thing.

Spanish Eyes

Those of a slightly more mature vintage would have known all about SF antics and would know who exactly runs SF and it's not ML. Some of that cohort were minded to give SF a scratch this time around, and it is they who will have watched the debate and have it confirmed they were correct all along. They haven't gone away you know.

On the other hand, the let's say under 30s, the Uni students, the hip activists following the O'Broin types won't really care about all that, because they don't want their dream of a Socialist, right on Utopia to be shattered. And many of them probably won't bother voting anyway.

Let's see what happens. As much as I dislike SF for speaking out of both sides of their mouths and with an elephant's trunk worth of dodgy baggage, they fought a good campaign. The tide was in their favour, will be interesting to see if it translates into bums on seats.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I must have being mixing you up with the Matt Barrett poster so apologies.
It is not just a tactic to look for answers about SF/IRA murders in the recent past. It is politicians doing thier job shining a light on the make up of the party and helping to look for answers for the victims. I do not see anything wrong with that.
If FF/FG were linked with murders that were never solved you can be damn sure I would want to know what the craic was.

SF try to pretend to be a normal party but do not want to face up to thier abnormalities.

It's not. It's exactly politicians using victims, however willing, to score points in the run up to an election. Then Taoseacht Bertie Ahern said it was a criminal matter, not related to the IRA.
I agree, if FF/FG were linked.
SF are not a normal party. They didn't leave part of the country to suffer under British/Unionist rule. Neither side come out great in conflict. Or maybe the Troubles were no more than Haughey buying tailored shirts to some.

Jinglejangle69

I'm loving these allegations of criminality against Paul Quinn by the SF party loyal here without any credible evidence.

They are the first ones to ask for evidence about Gerry been on the ra.

Talk about mud slinging.

Billcarson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Hang on a minute a 13 year old story it is not just a story a fella was bludgeoned to death with links to SF. With SF protecting the alleged individual.

Yet at the same time people go on about FF causing the crash nobody got killed because of it - but it is OK to mention that because it happened 1 year later in 2008!

What about those who took their own lives due to the crash,the impact it had on People etc.
Are you having a laugh. Comparing the crash to what happened to Paul Quinn .

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I'm loving these allegations of criminality against Paul Quinn by the SF party loyal here without any credible evidence.

They are the first ones to ask for evidence about Gerry been on the ra.

Talk about mud slinging.

You should ask Bertie Ahern who told us all Quinn was engaged in criminal activity.

I think he was.

By the way your 2% vulture fund ownership claim was FG spin. More like 40% it seems.

gormdubhgorm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

It's not. It's exactly politicians using victims, however willing, to score points in the run up to an election. Then Taoseacht Bertie Ahern said it was a criminal matter, not related to the IRA.
I agree, if FF/FG were linked.
SF are not a normal party. They didn't leave part of the country to suffer under British/Unionist rule.

But SF are sharing rule with the British and being paid by the British government, yet in the ROI they pretend to be anti-establishment.

You claim FF/FG are using the victims. But it is clear what SF are doing is trying to discredit the victims, belittle them or ignore them. As it is not politically expedient for them to do other wise. That to me is really heartless.
Mary Lou could not even say she supports the special criminal courts the very courts designed to stop the making of 'victims'.

Jinglejangle69

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You should ask Bertie Ahern who told us all Quinn was engaged in criminal activity.

I think he was.

By the way your 2% vulture fund ownership claim was FG spin. More like 40% it seems.

Wow vulture funds brought up when asked about Paul Quinn.

Some delicious deflection there:)

Seems Bertie Ahern isnt here ill ask you for the evidence.

JohnnyFlash

Conor Murphy has said Paul Quinn wasn’t involved in criminality. Yet the SF supporters here continue to insist he was. Which is it?

Nothing justifies being beaten to death in a shed. Barbaric.

gormdubhgorm

Billcarson wrote: »

What about those who took their own lives due to the crash,the impact it had on People etc.
Are you having a laugh. Comparing the crash to what happened to Paul Quinn .

That is what SF supporters are doing indirectly oh the establishment, oh the crash.

Yet on the other hand FF FG can mention murder, and supporters of said murderers. I know which sounds worse as do you obviously!

James Brown

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Wow vulture funds brought up when asked about Paul Quinn.

Some delicious deflection there:)

Seems Bertie Ahern isnt here ill ask you for the evidence.

I addressed your comment and added my own. My correcting you was responding.

woohoo!!! wrote: »

Interesting comment by Bertie Ahern in 2007:

The murder in Monaghan last month of Paul Quinn "was not paramilitary but pertained to feuds about criminality that were taking place", the Taoiseach told the Dáil.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-says-quinn-killing-a-criminal-feud-ahern-1.982248?mode=amp

jimmycrackcorm

car_radio19834 wrote: »

Sorry, should read, Sinn Feins policies are as achievable as the other two.

FF & FG have completely failed the young people of this country.

I'm not far from 30, had to move to a city for a decent job. I'm in a decent job and I'm stuck paying massive rents in a run down place sharing with clowns.

It's no life!

I recall a time when I was the only person in my college class to get a job in Ireland. Everyone else had to emigrate. The policies over the last three decades have made it so it's actually possible for you to work in Ireland and not emigrate.

You're point about renting and the housing situation is completely valid. After all economic success comes with the cost of housing catching up. But SF policies are pipedreams trying to outbid the other parties and the emperor is wearing no clothes when it comes to the sums to pay for it.

And worse, their anti business tax policies are the foundation of reversing jobs growth.

They'll be able to fill the gap in housing demand then as many of us will be forced to emigrate. And those left behind who lose their jobs won't be in a position to either but nor rent.

David McWilliams has a great podcast exploring the issues in how many Western democracies such as ours changed from a lot of social housing to getting the market to provide housing.

On one of his points about nimbyism, you'll find that SF councillors are equally adept as the other parties at objecting to housing developments.

Billcarson

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Conor Murphy has said Paul Quinn wasn’t involved in criminality. Yet the SF supporters here continue to insist he was. Which is it?

Nothing justifies being beaten to death in a shed. Barbaric.

Sf and their supporters are all barbarians I guess. Guess that makes me a barbarian too. Keep throwing your mud at sinn fein ,desperate times call for desperate measures. Go on sure milk it for all it's worth.

James Brown

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I recall a time when I was the only person in my college class to get a job in Ireland. Everyone else had to emigrate. The policies over the last three decades have made it so it's actually possible for you to work in Ireland and not emigrate.

You're point about renting and the housing situation is completely valid. After all economic success comes with the cost of housing catching up. But SF policies are pipedreams trying to outbid the other parties and the emperor is wearing no clothes when it comes to the sums to pay for it.

And worse, their anti business tax policies are the foundation of reversing jobs growth.

They'll be able to fill the gap in housing demand then as many of us will be forced to emigrate. And those left behind who lose their jobs won't be in a position to either but nor rent.

David McWilliams has a great podcast exploring the issues in how many Western democracies such as ours changed from a lot of social housing to getting the market to provide housing.

On one of his points about nimbyism, you'll find that SF councillors are equally adept as the other parties at objecting to housing developments.

That's bollocks as regards the crisis here.

The market is riding the tax payer with FG's help.

From Varadkar to Pat Kenny, nimbyism is cross party, cross society.

rdwight

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You should ask Bertie Ahern who told us all Quinn was engaged in criminal activity.

I think he was.

By the way your 2% vulture fund ownership claim was FG spin. More like 40% it seems.

Bertie had the grace to withdraw his original statement

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ahern-says-quinn-not-a-criminal-1.992814


A month after Ahern made his original statement and 12 years before Sinn Fein, only under extreme duress and four days before an election, could bring themselves to give a very similarly worded "clarification".

jimmycrackcorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Duffy having a pop at SF on his show now too.

It's full on from the usual crew.

Understandable when it comes to SF increasing taxes above 100k it's very difficult not to justify it when it comes to Duffy and his ilk

Billcarson

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is what SF supporters are doing indirectly oh the establishment, oh the crash.

Yet on the other hand FF FG can mention murder, and supporters of said murderers. I know which sounds worse as do you obviously!

Dont know what planet your living on but the crash sounds alot worse to me as it does I'm sure to many others.

facehugger99

Its about time the media woke up and starting scrutinising these murderous psychopaths that are associated with SF.

Why did we need to wait until less than a week from polling day for the tough questions to be asked and the SF political front to be nailed down on this?

What a fcuking dereliction of duty from the so called 5th Estate as these subversives stand poised to try and wrest control of out democratic institutions.

One hopes it's not too late.

Most of the swing to SF is from weak-minded, gullible fools, the on-going scandal may be enough to scare some of them back to their 'senses', such that they are.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Its about time the media woke up and starting scrutinising these murderous psychopaths that are associated with SF.

Why did we need to wait until less than a week from polling day fro the tough questions to be asked and the SF political front to be nailed down on this?

What a fcuking dereliction of duty from the so called 5th Estate as these subversives stand poised to try and wrest control of out democratic institutions.

One hopes it's not too late.

Most of the swing to SF is from weak-minded fools, the on-going scandal may be enough to scare some of them back to their 'senses', such that they are.

More of the hysterical scaremongering. Was there another poll somewhere?