General Election TV debates

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree with you on the bolded part above, but in fairness fair play, you've answered the question. Thanks. Personally, I think they've missed a great opportunity and it may not come again- we'll agree to disagree.

Well that's the fascinating dilemna that theelection will present for FF and FG.
Do they look to the long game or short one.

If they go into together again and fail...they open wide to the 'barbarians at the gate.

If one of them take SF into government then that is the Rubicon crossed for all time.

We live in interesting times.

johnmcdnl

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did you not hear. Francie is voting 1 and 2 for SF and independents after that then Lab, then the Greens.

For the first time in his life I am voting for SF in a GE and more importantly, not giving FF or FG a preference at all.

Why is it important not to give any preference to FF FG?
When counting comes to the later rounds your transferable vote will drop out of the count.

Filling the last seats will happen regardless, except you will have decided to let the rest of the electorate make the decision for you.

If the last seat is between FF and FG wouldn't you rather have your say in choosing between the 2 even if both are bad. That last seat may be important in the grander scheme of things. Especially when the attitude of not completing ballot papers is replicated across the country.

1641

Deirdre Hargey is their current Sinn Fein Communities Minister in Northern Ireland. She is a former Mayor of Belfast.

She was also present in Magennis's Bar in 2005 with Sinn Fein pals on the night of the murder of Robert McCartney, an innocent man :https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/unsolved-murder-casts-a-shadow-over-belfast-s-new-mayor-1.3525899 .

The murder was brutal. He was beaten with metal bars, his throat was cut and he was stabbed. After the murder the scene was forensically cleaned to remove evidence. An ambulance was not called.

Remarkably, none of the Sinn Fein crowd present were able to assist the police with anything. This includes Deirdre Hargey, now a senior Sinn Fein member and Minister. It seems about 70 of those present claimed to have been in the pub toilet when all this was going on. The toilet measurement was reported as being 4 ft by 3 ft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_McCartney#cite_note-10

This is a quote from McCartney's sister, Catherine:

“The reason they [the IRA] were able to survive as long as they did was because people didn’t view them as gangsters, they had some kind of legitimacy. Then it turns out that their whole cause was just based on power.

“And to me that was the most angering thing, what people had put up with in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, the hold they had over these communities, our whole childhoods ruined, because it wasn’t bloody well normal – and all for what, so they could get their grubby wee hands on power? They have proved that they cannot uphold or protect any principles of justice or fairness.”

Spanish Eyes

Well whatever happens I really hope that we end up with a Minister and Deputy like Coveney and McEntee re Brexit.

That will be so important in the next few months and we need people of calibre and intelligence to help us through this. We are very vulnerable really if we cannot make our voice heard going forward. Kind of forgotten because Johnson said so and is Trump in the making from what I can see.

I think Coveney and McEntee did us proud. But who knows what will happen now?

FrancieBrady

johnmcdnl wrote: »

Why is it important not to give any preference to FF FG?
When counting comes to the later rounds your transferable vote will drop out of the count.

Filling the last seats will happen regardless, except you will have decided to let the rest of the electorate make the decision for you.

If the last seat is between FF and FG wouldn't you rather have your say in choosing between the 2 even if both are bad. That last seat may be important in the grander scheme of things. Especially when the attitude of not completing ballot papers is replicated across the country.

Yes, it was never a concern for me before. And I need to look into what you say.

In my mid 50's I have never voted to keep somebody out before...also a new experience, sadly.
Cheers for the semi tutorial.

tayto lover

Suckit wrote: »

If FF need them, 100% MM will form a coalition if SF agree to it (of course they would).

It may have been said before, but there is no way MM is going to let himself go down in history as the first FF leader to not become Taoiseach.

If Martin refuses to form a Govt with SF then I believe he’ll be ousted. He will definitely change his mind before that happens. He’s not stupid and will want to lead a Govt. There seems to be plenty of FF members in favour of it.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well that's the fascinating dilemna that theelection will present for FF and FG.
Do they look to the long game or short one.

If they go into together again and fail...they open wide to the 'barbarians at the gate.

If one of them take SF into government then that is the Rubicon crossed for all time.

We live in interesting times.

My key point was that they could have played it so much differently.

Shirley their number crunchers would have seen a rising tide of support, that wasn't associated in any way with affiliations with the past. Or, - they saw the rising tide, thought they'd capitalise on it, but totally disregarded the fact that they would have to, I dunno, fully atone for "past sins" first, in order to fully move forward?

Sinn Fein to many people under 30, in 2020, is just a name of a party, yet another party- and not at all affiliated with the past as many of us know it- I get that- but can't you see that Mary Lou, formally Dublin 6 girl from Orwell Road, Rathgar, is trying to push a "new" agenda, without fully letting go of the past and keeping whatever "backroom boys"- and let's face it, every party has their "backroom boys"- happy?

Spanish Eyes

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

What way are you swaying on voting (if you don't mind me asking)?

Agree with alot of your comments

Local INDO first, won't reach the quota, then FG. Not ashamed to say it, they have been pants in a lot of ways but there is NO WAY I would ever vote FF or SF.

So there we are, hope you appreciate my honesty!

realdanbreen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well that's the fascinating dilemna that theelection will present for FF and FG.
Do they look to the long game or short one.

If they go into together again and fail...they open wide to the 'barbarians at the gate.

If one of them take SF into government then that is the Rubicon crossed for all time.

We live in interesting times.

The scary thing is that someone who's on here all the time and apparently follows politics is still of the opinion that either FF or FG will go into government with SF! Both FF and FG regard SF as toxic as do 80% of the electorate so it would be political hari kari to touch them.

Bunny Colvin

This turning into a bit of a Rabble Rabble.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

My key point was that they could have played it so much differently.

Shirley their number crunchers would have seen a rising tide of support, that wasn't associated in any way with affiliations with the past. Or, - they saw the rising tide, thought they'd capitalise on it, but totally disregarded the fact that they would have to, I dunno, fully atone for "past sins" first, in order to fully move forward?

Sinn Fein to many people under 30, in 2020, is just a name of a party, yet another party- and not at all affiliated with the past as many of us know it- I get that- but can't you see that Mary Lou, formally Dublin 6 girl from Orwell Road, Rathgar, is trying to push a "new" agenda, without fully letting go of the past and keeping whatever "backroom boys"- and let's face it, every party has their "backroom boys"- happy?

No doubt about it, SF is a party of many different voices and opinions.
Adams and McG were masters at keeping them all onside and on message mostly.
I think history will look kindly on their achievement there tbh.

I don't get the sense SF were ready for this. I don't think anyone was really.

McMurphy

Simon Harris a no show tonight with Ivan and Matt fon the tonight show which is being shot from his home town?

Was it Newstalk yesterday morning was saying that he must be being denied any contact with the media whatsoever, as he cannot be contacted, and seems to be banished somewhere with only limited access to twitter.

Maria Bailey's interview with SOR has certainly had a knock on effect to the rest of them , that's for sure.

FrancieBrady

realdanbreen wrote: »

The scary thing is that someone who's on here all the time and apparently follows politics is still of the opinion that either FF or FG will go into government with SF! Both FF and FG regard SF as toxic as do 80% of the electorate so it would be political hari kari to touch them.

What's 'scary' about a FF leader, particularly, doing an about face after an election?

I said it before, if the only option for Michael Martin to become Taoiseach is a deal with SF, he will find the words to do it.

gmisk

McMurphy wrote: »

Simon Harris a no show tonight with Ivan and Matt?

Was it Newstalk yesterday morning was saying that he must be being denied any contact with the media whatsoever, as he cannot be contacted, and seems to be banished somewhere with only limited access to twitter.

Maria Bailey's interview with SOR has certainly had a knock on effect to the rest of them , that's for sure.

Yep they mentioned it right at start and a few times when FG came up.

Eoghan Murphy also seems to have gone into hiding

gmisk

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's 'scary' about a FF leader, particularly, doing an about face after an election?

I said it before, if the only option for Michael Martin to become Taoiseach is a deal with SF, he will find the words to do it.

Or another confidence and supply with FG with him as taoiseach?

Life long FG voter but prob gonna vote for SF.

lawred2

I think I'm voting SF.

FFG candidates in Fingal turn me cold.

easypazz

realdanbreen wrote: »

The scary thing is that someone who's on here all the time and apparently follows politics is still of the opinion that either FF or FG will go into government with SF! Both FF and FG regard SF as toxic as do 80% of the electorate so it would be political hari kari to touch them.

FG wont have the numbers, and by the sounds of things will be well beaten, I expect them to declare early that they want to into opposition.

That leaves FF/SF and a few others as probably the only option.

Failing that Leo has said as a last resort FG will prop up FF, and hope deep down FF cant deliver their promises and after 3 budgets FG get another shot.

davycc

I'm voting Sinn Fein too. Denise Mitchell Dublin bay north #1!

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The key here tipp Gunner was the accident with the machinery was an accident. In NI there are 'accidents' or 'unfortunate incidents' with political undertones/excuses.

Big difference.

You've ignored the other two incidents ive mentioned very conveniently. These murders happened under the FG governments watch because quite frankly FG dont give a flying fúck about ordinary people. Policing, healthcare, and housing have all fallen off the cliff under their watch.

As for the incident with the machinery, it was absolute wrecklessness. And why get machinery to move a tent?? it may have been an accident but should never have happened. Im no supporter of Sinn Fein but im not falling for these blueshirt psychos and their sudden sense of morality :rolleyes:
We were asked to commemorate the black and tans and the RIC who apparently were 'only doing their jobs'. They can fúck off.

ricero

Cowardly and weasel like by Simon Harris. Embarrassing stuff for him not to attend on his doorstep.

easypazz

gmisk wrote: »

Yep they mentioned it right at start and a few times when FG came up.

Eoghan Murphy also seems to have gone into hiding

And Timmy Dooley to be fair.

And lisa Chambers.

No doubt they will all reappear.

Unlike Sinn Fein, when you are disappeared you are gone for good, your body wont ever be found.

ricero

Voting Sinn Fein in dun laoghaire.

Was a labour voter in the past before this but never again.

easypazz

easypazz wrote: »

FG wont have the numbers, and by the sounds of things will be well beaten, I expect them to declare early that they want to into opposition.

That leaves FF/SF and a few others as probably the only option.

Failing that Leo has said as a last resort FG will prop up FF, and hope deep down FF cant deliver their promises and after 3 budgets FG get another shot.

Not having a go at you but Im vomiting at the thoughts of what you just said... Why cant we just vote a brand spanking new party in who puts the Irish people first?

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What's 'scary' about a FF leader, particularly, doing an about face after an election?

I said it before, if the only option for Michael Martin to become Taoiseach is a deal with SF, he will find the words to do it.

I get the feeling the realdanbreen is a realFFdiehard.

easypazz wrote: »

FG wont have the numbers, and by the sounds of things will be well beaten, I expect them to declare early that they want to into opposition.

That leaves FF/SF and a few others as probably the only option.

Failing that Leo has said as a last resort FG will prop up FF, and hope deep down FF cant deliver their promises and after 3 budgets FG get another shot.

I doubt very much leo will still be leader by Easter if they suffer as big a seat loss as is being predicted.

Mantis Toboggan

Voting for the shinners also but don't expect them to get more than 20 seats.

lawred2

ricero wrote: »

Cowardly and weasel like by Simon Harris. Embarrassing stuff for him not to attend on his doorstep.

Himself and Murphy have been buried by FG HQ for this election campaign.. an obvious attempt by FG to try and not talk about where they are failing the most.

FrancieBrady

gmisk wrote: »

Or another confidence and supply with FG with him as taoiseach?

Which the electorate will treat the same as this one.

I think what this campaign has illustrated clearly is that the electorate's patience is not unlimited. They are looking for change and they are looking past the powerswap for that change. All the way up to the 50-65 demographic people are saying they will consider voting SF.

That is huge and it has clearly unsettled. FF and FG are rattled and their various supporters on here are turning on SF and the electorate itself. Just look at the last few pages for the disparaging comments about voters.

Zetor19

A different poll out tonight sf 25 Ff 22 tans 17 😀

McMurphy

lawred2 wrote: »

Himself and Murphy have been buried by FG HQ for this election campaign.. an obvious attempt by FG to try and not talk about where they are failing the most.

Nail on head.