General Election TV debates

JP Liz V1

christy c wrote: »

I think most people would like to see this, however voting in idiots like Pearse Doherty, Paul Murphy, etc. is not the answer imo. Only have to look across the water if we take a "see what happens" approach.

Is Pearse that bad, I think he would be a better SF leader than Mary Lou and he might far better than some of FG and FF tools

I think maybe time to give SF a chance in power somehow ;)

Eric Cartman

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Go on, I'll bite. How are The Greens morally unpalatable?

All of their policies disproportionately impact the poor and those who live rurally with no regard for a lack of choice in where you live or transport methods. They appeal purely to middle and upper class people who feel guilty about the environment but the solutions they offer dont negatively impact those peoples earning power or spending power. Its classism disguised as caring for the environment and their policies only serve to put more pressure on urban social housing and public transport making it also worse for the poor people currently fighting for access to such services.

Like it or not cycling and having viable commuter public transport is only for the wealthy and the green party pats those people on the back while shaming low income workers living rurally for not having alternatives

christy c

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is Pearse that bad

Yes I think so, that is even against the extremely low benchmark of FF/FG. I'll just copy and paste what I posted in another thread:

Pearse Doherty is either a complete buffoon or a cynical populist IMO. If not a buffoon, why is he sitting on his hands while his party runs with the crazy retirement idea? Why was he and his party colleagues cheerleading the other clowns in Syriza?

Snow Garden

I cant believe people are making such a big deal of Leo's drug use in his younger years. We are such a childish nation.

I would love to drug test the Dail.

Discuss the real issues!

Hamsterchops

PressRun wrote: »

It's a joke tbh.
Easy to see why they don't want SF involved though. It was barely a debate. Two fellas who have been egging each other on for the last number of years pretending to disagree with each other. If Mary Lou had been there, they might have to actually have a debate.

If she'd been there it would have been an awful rowdy affair, with her hurling insults at both of them in true 'bag lady fashion' only to be roundly attached by both politicians. Lots of shouting, and the whole tone of the debate would have been lowered if she had taken part ......

I think Leo slightly edged ahead in the debate.

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If she'd been there it would have been an awful rowdy affair, with her hurling insults at both of them in true 'bag lady fashion' only to be roundly attached by both politicians. Lots of shouting, and the whole tone of the debate would have been lowered if she had taken part ......

I think Leo slightly edged ahead in the debate.

Maybe the love in might have brought up some questions the public are interested in rather than softballs.

Muahahaha

That debate just there on Prime Time about the hassle of commuting from Navan was eye opening. Felt sorry for the young couple thinking of emigrating over it due to huge rents in Navan and then a 3 hour daily commute on top of it all. The young couple described their daily life as working to live rather than living to work.

All the while Regina Doherty was talking positively to them in the audience about how their problems are all because of the success of Fine Gael and that we should all celebrate the economy. And then out of nowhere she promises that Fine Gael are going to fund the railway to Navan, despite not having done it for the last nine years they were in power.

blanch152

Eric Cartman wrote: »

All of their policies disproportionately impact the poor and those who live rurally with no regard for a lack of choice in where you live or transport methods. They appeal purely to middle and upper class people who feel guilty about the environment but the solutions they offer dont negatively impact those peoples earning power or spending power. Its classism disguised as caring for the environment and their policies only serve to put more pressure on urban social housing and public transport making it also worse for the poor people currently fighting for access to such services.

Like it or not cycling and having viable commuter public transport is only for the wealthy and the green party pats those people on the back while shaming low income workers living rurally for not having alternatives

That is rubbish, their policies to not impact those who are poor.

However, you are partially right on the rural issue. The Greens policies increase the cost of living of those who choose to live outside of towns and village in unsustainable conditions where the costs of public service are very high.

Having viable commuter public transport is for everyone.

Brussels Sprout

Eric Cartman wrote: »

All of their policies disproportionately impact the poor and those who live rurally with no regard for a lack of choice in where you live or transport methods. They appeal purely to middle and upper class people who feel guilty about the environment but the solutions they offer dont negatively impact those peoples earning power or spending power. Its classism disguised as caring for the environment and their policies only serve to put more pressure on urban social housing and public transport making it also worse for the poor people currently fighting for access to such services.

Like it or not cycling and having viable commuter public transport is only for the wealthy and the green party pats those people on the back while shaming low income workers living rurally for not having alternatives

Yes it is undeniably true that the Greens draw much of their support from middle and upper class urban voters. It is also true that their policies would most likely disproportionately affect rural voters. That's because over half of the country's carbon emissions come from agriculture and transport. However, they have been honest about these positions which is more that can be said for a lot of the other parties.

Your accusation of them being classicists dressed up as environmentalists wold appear to be a distortion of your own feelings about them without any real factual basis.

For the record, what do you think would be the best way for Ireland to reduce its carbon emissions?

boardise

Watching the PrimeTime on commuting -the aerial shots of theNavan region struck me.We saw a huge acreage of prime agricultural land gobbled up by hundreds of little boxy semi-detached houses with postage stamp gardens. This seems like madness to me .Surely high rise would be a cheaper more sensible option ( not just here but in all our cities too). Most residents are young couples with no children or just one -maybe two at a stretch .For their purposes a series of 1 ,2 and 3 bed apts with proper stotage would meet current requirements.
Ccommunity and play facilities for children etc.could be provided-all weather pitches , tennis/ basketball courts , shops /services on the ground floor, perhaps communal garden , allotments . All this has been done around the world for decades.
What is it about the Irish people that we make such heavy weather of catering to the needs of our small population when the basic models of development are so well known ?

Calhoun

blanch152 wrote: »

That is rubbish, their policies to not impact those who are poor.

However, you are partially right on the rural issue. The Greens policies increase the cost of living of those who choose to live outside of towns and village in unsustainable conditions where the costs of public service are very high.

Having viable commuter public transport is for everyone.

Well there is thinking that tax on certain fuel types without investment in our power and heating infrastructure is a tax on the poor. Most well off people will have the better tech and can also buy there way out of taxes.

Ah yes the grand conspiracy of rural dwellers and of those in the commuter belts, live away from Dublin city where there are plenty of houses just not used, at reasonable prices out of pure stubbornness.

If this is green thinking it just tallies with why they need to be reviled.

Calhoun

Muahahaha wrote: »

That debate just there on Prime Time about the hassle of commuting from Navan was eye opening. Felt sorry for the young couple thinking of emigrating over it due to huge rents in Navan and then a 3 hour daily commute on top of it all. The young couple described their daily life as working to live rather than living to work.

All the while Regina Doherty was talking positively to them in the audience about how their problems are all because of the success of Fine Gael and that we should all celebrate the economy. And then out of nowhere she promises that Fine Gael are going to fund the railway to Navan, despite not having done it for the last nine years they were in power.

The problem with Navan is the problem of many commuter towns around the country, people forced to move out of the city center for a place to live.

I really hope she looses her seat, she is a horrible minister and some of the stuff that came out about her and a journalist in the past is fairly shocking. Then we have crap like this which just shows how tone deaf she is.

Eric Cartman

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Yes it is undeniably true that the Greens draw much of their support from middle and upper class urban voters. It is also true that their policies would most likely disproportionately affect rural voters. That's because over half of the country's carbon emissions come from agriculture and transport. However, they have been honest about these positions which is more that can be said for a lot of the other parties.

Your accusation of them being classicists dressed up as environmentalists wold appear to be a distortion of your own feelings about them without any real factual basis.

For the record, what do you think would be the best way for Ireland to reduce its carbon emissions?

Build a nuclear power plant, revitalise rail cargo transport and complete the national broadband plan to enable decentralisation and more working from home. LPT discounts for A and B rated homes.

Eric Cartman

blanch152 wrote: »

That is rubbish, their policies to not impact those who are poor.

However, you are partially right on the rural issue. The Greens policies increase the cost of living of those who choose to live outside of towns and village in unsustainable conditions where the costs of public service are very high.

Having viable commuter public transport is for everyone.

Rural people are poorer
The road transport sector is a low income sector
Its wealthier people living near public transport (higher rents / more expensive houses)
Most night work is low income , in most cases requires a car for transport.

How does a party that wants to increase the cost of motoring not disproportionately impact lower income earners.

is_that_so

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Build a nuclear power plant, revitalise rail cargo transport and complete the national broadband plan to enable decentralisation and more working from home. LPT discounts for A and B rated homes.

Rail cargo is unprofitable and one place the now extensive road network comes into its own. Nuclear is not a practical idea for us on cost and decommissioning issues alone.

Eric Cartman

is_that_so wrote: »

Rail cargo is unprofitable and one place the now extensive road network comes into its own. Nuclear is not a practical idea for us on cost and decommissioning issues alone.

Yeah, if these were the cheapest options we would have been doing them already... If we have to spend money to decrease our carbon footprint id rather do it here and benefit everyone rather than just bankrupting taxi drivers and couriers and letting dublin 4 dwelling yuppies with a cycling fetish away scot free.

enricoh

Muahahaha wrote: »

That debate just there on Prime Time about the hassle of commuting from Navan was eye opening. Felt sorry for the young couple thinking of emigrating over it due to huge rents in Navan and then a 3 hour daily commute on top of it all. The young couple described their daily life as working to live rather than living to work.

All the while Regina Doherty was talking positively to them in the audience about how their problems are all because of the success of Fine Gael and that we should all celebrate the economy. And then out of nowhere she promises that Fine Gael are going to fund the railway to Navan, despite not having done it for the last nine years they were in power.

Those two couples would have been miles better off on the dole. A sad inditement of our welfare state, Leo was going to look after those that get up early in the morning and pay for everything in the last dail but did nothing.
Maybe next time around folks!

Brussels Sprout

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Build a nuclear power plant, revitalise rail cargo transport and complete the national broadband plan to enable decentralisation and more working from home. LPT discounts for A and B rated homes.

These are all a good start and worthy of debate (although I believe the Greens are anti-nuclear due to the problems with the waste). The thing is that they’re just scratching the surface.

Last year I did not take any flights – that wasn’t a conscious decision on my behalf – it just happened to work that way. I had a look to see what my carbon footprint was as a result of that (since I knew that flying really ramps it up). Sure enough I was well below the Irish average of 17.5 tonnes (see below) However to be contributing my global fair share I’d need to be contributing only 2.5 tonnes.

Like most people, I drive a car to work, heat my house with fossil fuels, eat meat and air-freighted fruit & veg, operate a tumble dryer, live in an older house with a low BER, don’t have any solar panels. I’m going to have to examine all of those things and try and change them if I want to do my bit. However no matter what I do personally, there will also need to be a collective reduction in indirect emissions and that can only come from government action. It certainly will not come from the FF/FG Business as usual attitude.






calculator link

Eric Cartman

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

These are all a good start and worthy of debate (although I believe the Greens are anti-nuclear due to the problems with the waste). The thing is that they’re just scratching the surface.

Last year I did not take any flights – that wasn’t a conscious decision on my behalf – it just happened to work that way. I had a look to see what my carbon footprint was as a result of that (since I knew that flying really ramps it up). Sure enough I was well below the Irish average of 17.5 tonnes (see below) However to be contributing my global fair share I’d need to be contributing only 2.5 tonnes.

Like most people, I drive a car to work, heat my house with fossil fuels, eat meat and air-freighted fruit & veg, operate a tumble dryer, live in an older house with a low BER, don’t have any solar panels. I’m going to have to examine all of those things and try and change them if I want to do my bit. However no matter what I do personally, there will also need to be a collective reduction in indirect emissions and that can only come from government action. It certainly will not come from the FF/FG Business as usual attitude.






calculator link

thats an informative calculator. cheers.

Muahahaha

enricoh wrote: »

Those two couples would have been miles better off on the dole. A sad inditement of our welfare state, Leo was going to look after those that get up early in the morning and pay for everything in the last dail but did nothing.
Maybe next time around folks!

Yeah they seemed to have a hard struggle with a mad 3 hour commute. Found it astonishing that Regina just announced that FG would go ahead and build the railway to Navan, it was like she just blurted it out because she was under pressure in front of these people in the audience. Showed her as a complete spoofer.


Anyway I think the next TV debate is Claire Byrne on Monday night, it is all the party leaders so should be a bit better than the one on one debate which was a bit of a borefest tbh.

olestoepoke

I read this yesterday......The most recent opinion poll shows Fianna Fáil & Fine Gael polling at 27% each. Sinn Féin is in third place on 20%. Yet RTÉ are refusing to include Sinn Féin in the final election debate.
In 2011 RTÉ held a 3-way Election Debate between FG, Labour and FF who were polling at 37%, 20% and 16% respectively.

Is this true? If it is why aren't people outraged? I don't vote for any particular party as I think they are all more or less the same. Full of promises before the election and the same ****e once they are in. But why does RTE seem to think we have two choices given the stats mentioned above? In most civilised countries there would be uproar if the main national tv station that is largely funded by the government or at least bailed out each year is used as a government mouthpiece. This alone will make me vote for anyone other than those two parties.

Whelo79

olestoepoke wrote: »

I read this yesterday......The most recent opinion poll shows Fianna Fáil & Fine Gael polling at 27% each. Sinn Féin is in third place on 20%. Yet RTÉ are refusing to include Sinn Féin in the final election debate.
In 2011 RTÉ held a 3-way Election Debate between FG, Labour and FF who were polling at 37%, 20% and 16% respectively.

Is this true? If it is why aren't people outraged? I don't vote for any particular party as I think they are all more or less the same. Full of promises before the election and the same ****e once they are in. But why does RTE seem to think we have two choices given the stats mentioned above? In most civilised countries there would be uproar if the main national tv station that is largely funded by the government or at least bailed out each year is used as a government mouthpiece. This alone will make me vote for anyone other than those two parties.

1. RTE are doing it due to their own political agenda, they have no interest in seeing the public agenda and because they do not want a shift away from the status quo. They are afraid what might happen to their funding and the gravy train the ride.

2. Realistically SF are not running enough candidates to be the majority party, even in a coalition, so the chances of Mary Lou being Taioseach are slim. However, she does have a real chance of being Tánaiste and on that basis alone SF should be invited to that debate.

boardise

olestoepoke wrote: »

I read this yesterday......The most recent opinion poll shows Fianna Fáil & Fine Gael polling at 27% each. Sinn Féin is in third place on 20%. Yet RTÉ are refusing to include Sinn Féin in the final election debate.
In 2011 RTÉ held a 3-way Election Debate between FG, Labour and FF who were polling at 37%, 20% and 16% respectively.

Is this true? If it is why aren't people outraged? I don't vote for any particular party as I think they are all more or less the same. Full of promises before the election and the same ****e once they are in. But why does RTE seem to think we have two choices given the stats mentioned above? In most civilised countries there would be uproar if the main national tv station that is largely funded by the government or at least bailed out each year is used as a government mouthpiece. This alone will make me vote for anyone other than those two parties.

Forgive me if I'm misreading your post but what I gather is that your vote will be determined not by any party's record or policies but by an invitation sent out by a television station.
Seems a trifle ....eccentric ?

olestoepoke

boardise wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm misreading your post but what I gather is that your vote will be determined not by any party's record or policies but by an invitation sent out by a television station.
Seems a trifle ....eccentric ?

My vote like most of the country will be for the most part a parochial decision.

Muahahaha

9.35pm tonight, all 7 party leaders debating. Hope Byrne has control and it doesnt turn into a shouting match

Seven party leaders will take part in the Claire Byrne Live Leaders' debate in NUI Galway tonight. As campaigning in the General Election passes the halfway mark today, political parties and independent candidates have continued campaigning across the country.

The debate will be televised live on RTÉ One from 9.35pm. With just 12 days to go to polling day, tonight's debate takes on added significance especially given that four opinion polls have suggested that Fine Gael trail Fianna Fáil.

They also indicate an increase in support for Sinn Féin and a solid Green Party vote.

Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar conceded at the weekend that in hurling terms, his party is three points behind at half-time, but he insisted it can be turned around.

_Kaiser_

The scary part of that is that the Greens could be key to the next Government.

It worked out so well last time. The two tier motor tax system and huge diesel fleet that is now seen as a problem is their legacy.

Muahahaha

And lets not forget how when the IMF were being called in the Greens were going full square for a stag hunting ban in the Dail. Talk about tone deaf when it comes to priorities.

Anyway should be interesting tonight to see who is going to attack who. I think Mary Lou will be getting it from both sides.

padd b1975

Muahahaha wrote: »

9.35pm tonight, all 7 party leaders debating. Hope Byrne has control and it doesnt turn into a shouting match

Who's up front for the Trots?

Gino "this is good sh1t" Kenny?

JohnnyFlash

padd b1975 wrote: »

Who's up front for the Trots?

Gino "this is good sh1t" Kenny?

No. It’s Richie BB representing then tonight. He’s about the best of them, which is damning with faint praise I suppose.

_Kaiser_

This will be interesting I'd say