General Election TV debates

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not the FF that busted the country. It is like he wasn't there.

Just like Gerry “Paul Daniel” Adams.

Doctor Jimbob

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Has a more odious, power hungry sleeveen 'politician' as Michael Martin emerged in this country in the last 20 years?

He would sell his granny for the job. No humility for his part in the crash and bankrupting of the country, no responsibility for the current mess in Health, Housing etc

He walked into haymakers last night on the above yet the equally desparate and sleeveen Indo has him as the winner??

I will say it now, I'd prefer Leo to remain as Taoiseach than that man get the job.
My favourite outcome would be an internal FF revolt on coalition with SF.

In fairness he performed quite well in parts of the debate last night, so I don't think it's that mad for him to be declared winner.

That said, I completely agree with your description of him. The man makes my skin crawl.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Just like Gerry “Paul Daniel” Adams.

Gerry denied he was in SF?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gerry denied he was in SF?

Denied he was ever a member of the IRA.
You criticise Michael Martin for being power hungry but not a whimper of the same charge from you for Sinn Fein. A party which has jettisoned all its core principles from abstentionism to “Brits Out”.

You are deluded if you think there is a large section of Fianna Fáil eager for coalition with Sinn Fein.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Denied he was ever a member of the IRA.

So what?

You criticise Michael Martin for being power hungry but not a whimper of the same charge from you for Sinn Fein. A party which has jettisoned all its core principles from abstentionism to “Brits Out”.

Every politician wants power, nothing wrong with that. To be as power hungry as MM is obscene.
At least Leo will defend decisions FG took in running the country. Martin denies what his own history is and what FF did to the country.

You are deluded if you think there is a large section of Fianna Fáil eager for coalition with Sinn Fein.

We'll wait and see on that one.

JohnnyFlash

FF and SF will be in coalition after the election despite what Mehole has said on the matter. SF will back down on the SCC issue as well.

There will be no one more disappointed in the compromises SF will make both in negotiations, and once faced with the reality of budgets, unions, and legislation when in Government than their hardcore supporters.

Fr_Dougal

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF will be in coalition after the election despite what Mehole has said on the matter. SF will back down on the SCC issue as well.

There will be no one more disappointed in the compromises SF will make both in negotiations, and once faced with the reality of budgets, unions, and legislation when in Government than their hardcore supporters.

Not a chance. FF will not go into coalition with SF.

JohnnyFlash

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Not a chance. FF will not go into coalition with SF.

If the numbers stack up then it will happen. They will huff and they’ll puff, and they’ll pretend to be trying to put together some sort of grand coalition involving everyone except SF and FG. And there will be lots of posturing and hot air. Might go on for a few weeks. Insults will be traded and Hugh O’Connell will explode with excitement.

And then Mehole and Mary will hold ‘private talks’ and a decision to go into coalition will happen for the ‘good of the country’.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

If the numbers stack up then it will happen. They will huff and they’ll puff, and they’ll pretend to be trying to put together some sort of grand coalition involving everyone except SF and FG. And there will be lots of posturing and hot air. Might go on for a few weeks. Insults will be traded and Hugh O’Connell will explode with excitement.

And then Mehole and Mary will hold ‘private talks’ and a decision to go into coalition will happen for the ‘good of the country’.

And nothing would be funnier than the FF Executive Council/Ard Comhairle dictating it to Michael.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

FF and SF will be in coalition after the election despite what Mehole has said on the matter. SF will back down on the SCC issue as well.

There will be no one more disappointed in the compromises SF will make both in negotiations, and once faced with the reality of budgets, unions, and legislation when in Government than their hardcore supporters.

16-1 I think on Paddy Power.

Nice wedge of cash there for a betting man.

Edit, 6 - 1, 16-1 on a ff minority govt which I think may be ultimately where we're headed.

Idbatterim

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/donohoe-defends-taoiseachs-admission-that-tax-cuts-may-not-go-ahead-as-realism-in-an-uncertain-world-38902194.html

easypazz

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Not a chance. FF will not go into coalition with SF.

Its not their choice. The people will dictate and they must follow.

They ghosted with FG for months after the last election then went to bed with them.

If I was FG and came second I would declare that they are beaten and don't want to be in government and its time for new people in charge.

Sit back, and open the popcorn.

shenanagans

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Denied he was ever a member of the IRA.
You criticise Michael Martin for being power hungry but not a whimper of the same charge from you for Sinn Fein. A party which has jettisoned all its core principles from abstentionism to “Brits Out”.

You are deluded if you think there is a large section of Fianna Fáil eager for coalition with Sinn Fein.

Sinn Féin TDs have 'zero' influence and policies are handed down, says Tóibín

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/sinn-fein-tds-have-zero-influence-and-policies-are-handed-down-says-toibin-38901964.html

Toibin giving the public a true insight into how SF functions. He'd know having been in SF.

Some point from interview:

key policy decisions are made by a "very tight circle" of six or seven people and are then "handed down" to TDs.

Mr Tóibín said most Sinn Féin TDs are not permitted to choose their own staff members. Instead, he said the party picks their parliamentary assistants who can have even more influence than the TDs they are working for.

Tóibín said he knew of one TD who was effectively directed to make Dáil speeches by their assistant as she did not agree with the policy.

Idbatterim

easypazz wrote: »

Its not their choice. The people will dictate and they must follow.

They ghosted with FG for months after the last election then went to bed with them.

If I was FG and came second I would declare that they are beaten and don't want to be in government and its time for new people in charge.

Sit back, and open the popcorn.

In a way. It’s so attractive! I’ll say this again , fg are ****. But there are two parties there , one proven spoofers and useless, they won’t tackle any key issues that would resolve these crisis. I dont know now , maybe you’re right , I’d love to see it ! Havingvall the answers is easy , when your solutions, aren’t being tested. Imagine these two parties after all their waffle for years , never mind not fixing issues , but bring it all crashing down Again !

Those parties will ditch all transport proposals for Dublin though , so while the comedy aspect of it is intriguing, I’d prefer fg and greens to get in. Once Dublin metro , bus connects and m20 have started. Ideally dart underground. Let the **** explode again, I’ll sit back with the popcorn !

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So what?

Every politician wants power, nothing wrong with that. To be as power hungry as MM is obscene.
At least Leo will defend decisions FG took in running the country. Martin denies what his own history is and what FF did to the country.



We'll wait and see on that one.

No. What obscene power hunger looks like is using violence to advance your political goals. To murder your political opponents. That’s what is obscene. Michael Martin never had a private army to blow up civilians to as a political tool.

SafeSurfer

easypazz wrote: »

Its not their choice. The people will dictate and they must follow.

They ghosted with FG for months after the last election then went to bed with them.

If I was FG and came second I would declare that they are beaten and don't want to be in government and its time for new people in charge.

Sit back, and open the popcorn.

The people don’t dictate who party’s decide to coalesce with. Both main parties have committed to non coalition with Sinn Fein. People know in advance what they are voting for and what they are voting against.

easypazz

Idbatterim wrote: »

In a way. It’s so attractive! I’ll say this again , fg are ****. But there are two parties there , one proven spoofers and useless, they won’t tackle any key issues that would resolve these crisis. I dont know now , maybe you’re right , I’d love to see it ! Havingvall the answers is easy , when your solutions, aren’t being tested. Imagine these two parties after all their waffle for years , never mind not fixing issues , but bring it all crashing down Again !

Those parties will ditch all transport proposals for Dublin though , so while the comedy aspect of it is intriguing, I’d prefer fg and greens to get in. Once Dublin metro , bus connects and m20 have started. Ideally dart underground. Let the **** explode again, I’ll sit back with the popcorn !

I'd love to see Michael "comeback king" Martin get the rug swept under him when Sinn Fein are his chosen bride.

shenanagans

easypazz wrote: »

I'd love to see Michael "comeback king" Martin get the rug swept under him when Sinn Fein are his chosen bride.

FF will never partner with SF with MM as leader.

easypazz

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The people don’t dictate who party’s decide to coalesce with. Both main parties have committed to non coalition with Sinn Fein. People know in advance what they are voting for and what they are voting against.

FF have also ruled out coalition with FG.

Their mantra is people want a change of government.

FG are perfectly entitled to accept defeat and go into opposition and not negotiate with anybody about forming a government.

Its FF that are saying the people want a new government, that they keep hearing it on the doorsteps, that rules out FG, so SF may be the ones the people choose to join FF in this new government.

Granny15

Idbatterim wrote: »

In a way. It’s so attractive! I’ll say this again , fg are ****. But there are two parties there , one proven spoofers and useless, they won’t tackle any key issues that would resolve these crisis. I dont know now , maybe you’re right , I’d love to see it ! Havingvall the answers is easy , when your solutions, aren’t being tested. Imagine these two parties after all their waffle for years , never mind not fixing issues , but bring it all crashing down Again !

Those parties will ditch all transport proposals for Dublin though , so while the comedy aspect of it is intriguing, I’d prefer fg and greens to get in. Once Dublin metro , bus connects and m20 have started. Ideally dart underground. Let the **** explode again, I’ll sit back with the popcorn !

Source?

easypazz

shenanagans wrote: »

FF will never partner with SF with MM as leader.

Exactly, so "comeback king" will have to resign if that is the "new Government" the people keep telling him they want on the doorsteps.

Idbatterim

easypazz wrote: »

FF have also ruled out coalition with FG.

Their mantra is people want a change of government.

FG are perfectly entitled to accept defeat and go into opposition and not negotiate with anybody about forming a government.

Its FF that are saying the people want a new government, that they keep hearing it on the doorsteps, that rules out FG, so SF may be the ones the people choose to join FF in this new government.

People want a change of government? Lol! Ffg as parties , will win comfortably the most seats !

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

No. What obscene power hunger looks like is using violence to advance your political goals. To murder your political opponents. That’s what is obscene. Michael Martin never had a private army to blow up civilians to as a political tool.

Martin was never involved in a conflict/war.

shenanagans

easypazz wrote: »

Exactly, so "comeback king" will have to resign if that is the "new Government" the people keep telling him they want on the doorsteps.

FF are topping the polls. Why would he resign? FF TDs won't want him to resign. They'll go into govt with other parties ....NOT SF. No one will partner with SF because they are not a democratic party. With their history no one wants to associate with them. Unfortunately there's no credible left party at the moment with greens and labour so low in polls.

RandomViewer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Every democrat should be worried when elected politicians swear to follow the instructions of unelected cult leaders.

Word is Dinny is getting final say on FG candidates,

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Martin was never involved in a conflict/war.

A tiny minority of people involved in northern Irish politics were so power hungry that they resorted to killing to achieve their objectives. Killing ultimately did not achieve their objective but thousands died because of their failed political decisions.

There are still British troops in Northern Ireland. Still Union Jacks flying in the north. Sinn Fein have grown since they pressed pause on their dual politics/violence strategy.

SafeSurfer

RandomViewer wrote: »

Word is Dinny is getting final say on FG candidates,

Yawn.

easypazz

shenanagans wrote: »

FF are topping the polls. Why would he resign? FF TDs won't want him to resign. They'll go into govt with other parties ....NOT SF. No one will partner with SF because they are not a democratic party. With their history no one wants to associate with them. Unfortunately there's no credible left party at the moment with greens and labour so low in polls.

MM has also ruled out a coalition with FG. According to MM the people want a new government.

His only option, to implement what the people keep telling him on the doorsteps, may be to form a new government with SF.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

A tiny minority of people involved in northern Irish politics were so power hungry that they resorted to killing to achieve their objectives.

Martin runs a party that was born exactly the same way. What is your point here, other than wanting to drag a current debate back to the past?

shenanagans

easypazz wrote: »

MM has also ruled out a coalition with FG. According to MM the people want a new government.

His only option, to implement what the people keep telling him on the doorsteps, may be to form a new government with SF.

I'd say it will be another confidence and supply agreement with FG propping up FF this time. Unless Greens and Labour get numbers to form a govt with FF.... hopefully this will happen....it would be more popular I'd imagine.