General Election TV debates

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have to criticise other leaders now when I criticise Michael?

Jaysus, this gets stranger and stranger.

You don't agree he is power hungry. Grand. That your opinion.

We differ in opinion. My opinion is supported by the facts. Your opinion is based on your personal prejudice. I mean criticising someone for something they may do in the future, come on.
And by the way your use of the royal we, is telling.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We differ in opinion. My opinion is supported by the facts. Your opinion is based on your personal prejudice. I mean criticising someone for something they may do in the future, come on.
And by the way your use of the royal we, is telling.

My opinion is based on my experience of Martin, a sleeveen who can use his finely honed rhetoric to weasel out of any commitment or act he may have carried out. He walked into several haymakers last night trying to do that, from Varadkar and M.L.M etc.

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My opinion is based on my experience of Martin, a sleeveen who can use his finely honed rhetoric to weasel out of any commitment or act he may have carried out. He walked into several haymakers last night trying to do that, from Varadkar and M.L.M etc.

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

Did he break any commitment he made since becoming Fianna Fáil leader? In your opinion.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Did he break any commitment he made since becoming Fianna Fáil leader? In your opinion.

Quick look at his 2016 manifesto.

Commitments to

protecting and strengthening vital public services.

Secure home ownership and tackle homelessness

Tackle crime and develop community services

All broken. He stood by while these got worse. The audience agreed last night when he walked into the haymakers on them too.

An Ciarraioch

Pro-life FF members might feel abandoned in relation to abortion, similarly the decision to contest elections in NI was quietly dropped.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quick look at his 2016 manifesto.

Commitments to

protecting and strengthening vital public services.

Secure home ownership and tackle homelessness

Tackle crime and develop community services

All broken. He stood by while these got worse. The audience agreed last night when he walked into the haymakers on them too.

Is that the sound of straws being clutched.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Is that the sound of straws being clutched.

Are you one of these 'manifesto's really don't matter' people?

He made the committments, entered a confidence and supply arrangement and those things all got worse.

Not to mention what An Ciarraioch said too. I'm sure there's plenty more too.

Naggdefy

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

FrancieBrady

Naggdefy wrote: »

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

He asks for stuff, then just handwaves it away when it's presented. What's a poster to do here?

easypazz

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Did he break any commitment he made since becoming Fianna Fáil leader? In your opinion.

15000 Gardai, didn't happen.

quinnd6

I thought they were all terrible last night.
The whole thing was boring as heck.
Anyway FF and FG are the same, won't tax the rich and prefer to find more and more charges for the poor to pay and well you know all the other problems- the ridiculously overpriced childrens hospital(most expensive in the world), the decimation of rural areas, trying to bring in water charges, the property tax which they want to increase, no home help available for people that need it, hospital overcrowding, main buses only going every 2 hours and if you're rural you can wait for 3 or 4 hours or there may not be a bus at all going where you want to go, they also want a household charge for tv licence, the ridiculous waste of money on that printer that was too big to fit in the room in the oireachtais, the fact they want to not tax any big corporations and tax the less well off instead, the homeless problem, the pension age problem. There are more problems I'm sure that I can't think of at the moment with both of those parties.
Labour well does anyone want to listen to Joan Burton for 4 years.
I think they are actually worse than FF and FG or if not then they're the same.
Greens are all about taxing and ripping people off and don't really care about the environment.
SF I don't know if I could trust them either and PBP well they only seem to want to oppose whoever gets in and don't really seem to have any ideas.

That's my opinion anyway.
I will vote for someone, just finding it difficult to find someone to vote for.
I find it difficult to trust any of them.

Idbatterim

what are these extra gardai meant to do, when there arent enough prison spaces to lock the scum up?

so why recruit more gardai? because of optics! pathetic! Results dont matter here at all, only optics do!

SafeSurfer

Are we going to go through the manifesto of every political party who wasn’t in government and say it was a broken promise?

quinnd6

The extra gardai will be for giving speeding tickets to people that go 3 miles above the speed limit and parking tickets probably.

Idbatterim

quinnd6 wrote: »

I thought they were all terrible last night.
The whole thing was boring as heck.
Anyway FF and FG are the same, won't tax the rich and prefer to find more and more charges for the poor to pay and well you know all the other problems- the ridiculously overpriced childrens hospital(most expensive in the world), the decimation of rural areas, trying to bring in water charges, the property tax which they want to increase, no home help available for people that need it, hospital overcrowding, main buses only going every 2 hours and if you're rural you can wait for 3 or 4 hours or there may not be a bus at all going where you want to go, they also want a household charge for tv licence, the ridiculous waste of money on that printer that was too big to fit in the room in the oireachtais, the fact they want to not tax any big corporations and tax the less well off instead, the homeless problem, the pension age problem. There are more problems I'm sure that I can't think of at the moment with both of those parties.
Labour well does anyone want to listen to Joan Burton for 4 years.
I think they are actually worse than FF and FG or if not then they're the same.
Greens are all about taxing and ripping people off and don't really care about the environment.
SF I don't know if I could trust them either and PBP well they only seem to want to oppose whoever gets in and don't really seem to have any ideas.

That's my opinion anyway.
I will vote for someone, just finding it difficult to find someone to vote for.
I find it difficult to trust any of them.

guinnd, Ill give you my take on it. you talk about rural ireland, the pensioners want their very generous pensions, medical card, free travel. no water charges, as good as no lpt. I mean its great wanting the best of everything, but when push comes to shove, these people dont want to pay anything! I am not talking about just pensioners, we have huge amounts of workers paying, extremely little income tax. We have an obscene welfare state...

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Are we going to go through the manifesto of every political party who wasn’t in government and say it was a broken promise?

You asked the question and got your answer, from more than me.

Stop digging.

quinnd6

Idbatterim wrote: »

guinnd, Ill give you my take on it. you talk about rural ireland, the pensioners want their very generous pensions, medical card, free travel. no water charges, as good as no lpt. I mean its great wanting the best of everything, but when push comes to shove, these people dont want to pay anything!

Aren't they paying enough already.
Everyone pays their taxes including rural people and pensioners.
Pensions vary depending on the person so a lot of people would probably have a heck of a lot less than other people.
I don't really get what you're on about.

I Am The Law

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quick look at his 2016 manifesto.

Commitments to

protecting and strengthening vital public services.

Secure home ownership and tackle homelessness

Tackle crime and develop community services

All broken. He stood by while these got worse. The audience agreed last night when he walked into the haymakers on them too.

Correct, FF supported an incompetent FG government, and people are still considering wasting not only their vote on these 2 parties, but another 5 years of of the same old thing.

Muahahaha

Naggdefy wrote: »

The Francie/Safe Surfer show continues

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin and Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald will battle it out, along with the leaders of the four other main political parties, on Virgin Media’s leaders’ debate.

The leaders of the seven main political parties will get the chance to have their say on Virgin Media One on Thursday, January 30. The wide-ranging debate will be moderated by broadcasters Matt Cooper and Ivan Yates.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar, Fianna Fail leader Micheal Martin and Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald will battle it out, along with the leaders of the four other main political parties, on Virgin Media’s leaders’ debate.
Mr Varadkar, Mr Martin and Ms McDonald will be joined by Green Party leader Eamon Ryan and Labour Party leader Brendan Howlin as well as representatives from the Social Democrats and People Before Profit.

Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

Deputy Barry said this morning: “The first Leaders Debate between Leo Varadkar and Micheal Martin was as dull as dishwater because they pretty much agree on all the main issues anyway. “Last night’s debate was more lively in large measure because Richard Boyd Barrett raised the real issues and didn’t pull his punches. I am looking forward to doing something similar this Thursday night.”

shenanagans

FrancieBrady wrote: »

My opinion is based on my experience of Martin, a sleeveen who can use his finely honed rhetoric to weasel out of any commitment or act he may have carried out. He walked into several haymakers last night trying to do that, from Varadkar and M.L.M etc.

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

FF aren't going in with SF....end of story. It's not on the cards. This option has been ruled out by MM and several of the top younger FF ministers like Lisa Chambers and Stephen Donnolly. If the younger ministers weren't ruling it out then I would understand SF supporters holding out hope but it's clearly across the FF party.....NO SF COALITION!!!

Not only that but the grassroots FF will go nuts if it's considered. It won't happen.

FrancieBrady

I Am The Law wrote: »

FF supported an incompetent FG government,

That was the final straw for me. Time for a change.

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That was the final straw for me. Time for a change.

Who are you thinking of voting for Francie?

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

Who are you thinking of voting for Francie?

Already posted this.

I am voting for Matt Carty this time with his running mate as No. 2. Or vice versa.

BTW, I have no interest in how others vote. Not sure why people need to know this stuff.

Idbatterim

quinnd6 wrote: »

Aren't they paying enough already.
Everyone pays their taxes including rural people and pensioners.
Pensions vary depending on the person so a lot of people would probably have a heck of a lot less than other people.
I don't really get what you're on about.

what are many of them paying primarily ? vat. Its the problem here with the discourse! Its why I think the debates are farcical in a way. You have people, who pay virtually nothing into the system or have paid virtually nothing in and they want even the working poor, hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, to pay for it all.

the system here, is deluded. So are many of the electorate... they dont care who pays or that persons ability to pay, once they are working, they must be comfortable and "fair game"

but they government here are idiots, I mean perception is huge here. they have just re-instated full dole here for under 25's, does anyone really care or did it make many headlines? no. I think its idiocy. The cost of that alone, is probably a multiple of whatever absolute pittance and irrelevance was saved, by closing garda stations and post offices. these state controls a colossal budget every year, and why they bothered tinkering around with what the equivalent to you and I would be red cents in our wallet and the damage it has done to them politically (rightly or wrongly), they are absolute fools

easypazz

Muahahaha wrote: »

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm



Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

A bit pointless going 7 ways again. A 3 way this time would work, then a final head to head next week.

In a future election if there are genuinely 3 parties vying for it you could have 3 x 2 ways so each leader goes one to one with the other 2.

I'd have loved to hear Mary Lous answer on if she signed a pledge or not last night, but Howlin butted in.

It could have been a Sean "Brown Envelope" Gallagher moment for her.

If the question gets answered again she have her answer ready and will spin here way out of it.

Loafing Oaf

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He will do the same re: SF coalition, if it is the only option IN MY OPINION.

How could it be the only option if there's an offer from FG on the table? Do you see a realistic possibility that FF + SF will have the numbers to form a government but FF + FG won't?

FrancieBrady

Muahahaha wrote: »

Indeed, pages upon pages of the same old tired SF/IRA crap that no one outside of a few political anoraks cares about anymore. Take it to another thread lads, this one is about the TV debates

Anyway next TV debate Thursday night TV3 at 9pm



Word is that Mick Barry will be taking over from Richard Boyd Barrett for this one

Should have been all made to switch to another party member maybe.

Whatever, it will be hard to follow the Claire Bryne act.

shenanagans

easypazz wrote: »

A bit pointless going 7 ways again. A 3 way this time would work, then a final head to head next week.

In a future election if there are genuinely 3 parties vying for it you could have 3 x 2 ways so each leader goes one to one with the other 2.

I'd have loved to hear Mary Lous answer on if she signed a pledge or not last night, but Howlin butted in.

It could have been a Sean "Brown Envelope" Gallagher moment for her.

If the question gets answered again she have her answer ready and will spin here way out of it.

Would think that a debate with FF, FG and Greens would be more relevant given no one will touch SF. But broadcasters couldn't have greens without SF unfortunately. Howlin and Shortall were very poor last night. I'd have liked to heard more from Greens. MM was fairly cosying up to Eamon.

quinnd6

Idbatterim wrote: »

what are many of them paying primarily ? vat. Its the problem here with the discourse! Its why I think the debates are farcical in a way. You have people, who pay virtually nothing into the system or have paid virtually nothing in and they want even the working poor, hit by a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, to pay for it all.

the system here, is deluded. So are many of the electorate... they dont care who pays or that persons ability to pay, once they are working, they must be comfortable and "fair game"

but they government here are idiots, I mean perception is huge here. they have just re-instated full dole here for under 25's, does anyone really care or did it make many headlines? no. I think its idiocy. The cost of that alone, is probably a multiple of whatever absolute pittance and irrelevance was saved, by closing garda stations and post offices. these state controls a colossal budget every year, and why they bothered tinkering around with what the equivalent to you and I would be red cents in our wallet and the damage it has done to them politically (rightly or wrongly), they are absolute fools

Eh who's paying 50% tax?
The big corporations like Apple aren't paying tax.
The banks aren't paying tax.
The millionaires are doing their best to dodge tax.
Yet you want to go after poor people on jobseekers.
Really?
Are you serious oh for god's sake.
No ordinary people who are working shouldn't have to pay 50% tax.
I don't know where you're getting that one.
Anyway this is getting silly.

Idbatterim

quinnd6 wrote: »

Eh who's paying 50% tax?
The big corporations like Apple aren't paying tax.
The banks aren't paying tax.
The millionaires are doing their best to dodge tax.
Yet you want to go after poor people on jobseekers.
Really?
Are you serious oh for god's sake.
No ordinary people who are working shouldn't have to pay 50% tax.
I don't know where you're getting that one.
Anyway this is getting silly.

but of course they have to pay that marginal rate. When nobody else wants or is expected to pay their way. Can you blame anyone trying to dodge tax, for doing so? they arent poor, many are getting free houses, that people next door, can pay up to E3000 a month for, after bloody tax, no lpt, no management fee. you wont find the spineless weasel politicians calling a spade a spade here, but I will! They think , go after the "high earners" on 80-100k plus "high earners" :rolleyes: and they reckon they are fair game! Why? because how many voters pull in decent money as a percentage of the electorate? buy the rest of them off, with the mid to high earners taxes, that dont actually qualify them for better dole if made redundant, state pension is virtually the same. the system here, massively benefits to welfare recipients and lower paid, but at least the workers actually work! free gp visits, while working poor dont go, because they might have to pay E60. Free unlimited transport for many too, that dont actually work! Surprised the left here, havent proposed confiscating all property and wealth of the "rich" on 80k plus and selling it off and redistributing it to margaret cash and co....

you dont know where I am coming from, because you likely have dont know how things work in other countries, in the uk or germany etc, have a debate like yesterday, I can tell you now, the taxpayers there have a voice! It wouldnt be every party , trying to siphon off more money from them and give those paying into the system , nothing in return, which is what we have here...