Threatening letter from a solicitor

petros1980

bucketybuck wrote: »

That is no answer at all of course. But regardless, I made a factual point and got jumped on, there is no crusade.



I would have thought it pretty obvious that the unscrupulous landlord, described as a thug in this very thread, is going to continue with his desire to have the OP leave the landlords flat. Whether that be through harassment or by finally following proper procedures it seems obvious that he is not going to just pay the OP €5k and decide to leave it there.

Is that not obvious?

As such the OP needs to consider that. He has won this battle but does the war continue? Because the fact is that the OP does not own the flat and as such will always be at risk of eviction.

You haven't answered my question one bit.....

Through harassment == more fines - Do you not get that?
What proper procedures??? - Only way he can evict tenant is if he's going to sell the flat

10pennymixup

petros1980 wrote: »

You haven't answered my question one bit.....

Through harassment == more fines - Do you not get that?
What proper procedures??? - Only way he can evict tenant is if he's going to sell the flat

I would say that they have answered your question though not in great detail. It's not their fault it wasn't answered to your satisfaction nor comprehension.

And you're incorrect, there are 6 legal reasons allowing a LL terminate a tenancy. Terminating a tenancy is the correct phrase, not evict.

bucketybuck

petros1980 wrote: »

You haven't answered my question one bit.....

Through harassment == more fines - Do you not get that?
What proper procedures??? - Only way he can evict tenant is if he's going to sell the flat

You asked what will happen next, I answered that it is very likely that the landlord is going to continue his efforts to remove the tenant. That is the factual answer. Honestly I thought it was so obvious that I shouldn't have needed to state it, but here we are.

By the way, it is also very naive to think that it is as simple as "harassment = more fines". An unscrupulous person can easily harass in ways that are very hard to prove in court, and we have already established that this landlord is unscrupulous.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

petros1980 wrote: »

Only way he's getting the tenant out is if he is genuinely selling the place, which of course he won't be...

I wouldn't be so sure after all of this, he might be happy enough to wash his hands of it at this stage.

nuac

Mod
Language!
Looking at you -Petros, Curiouser, Tacitus!

Curious1002

Hi All, again,
just to let you know that my landlord has just filed an appeal with the RTB. His lawyer sent me another letter yesterday saying that my landlord's daughter who "requires" my apartment for her use is available to meet with me to confirm that she requires to move into my apartment. Weird letter. They give me 7 days to respond. Crazy idea, but i suspect they just want to collect more evidence against me at this stage. I will ignore it just like i did with all previous letters.

So my joy of winning the case against him lasted less than a week. I will see the bunch of them again at the appeal, probably in 1.5-2 months. The case details will be made public so you will read about this awful case in a few months on the RTB website. It just shows how determined some people are when they want someone out - the cost, the Law, the reputation doesnt matter to them.

fritzelly

Why would you need to meet his daughter - beggars belief

Didn't the RTB rule they didn't believe the story?

Curious1002

fritzelly wrote: »

Why would you need to meet his daughter - beggars belief

Didn't the RTB rule they didn't believe the story?

Yeah, I was wondering myself why they sent me that letter. They knew I would ignore it.

It must be a tactical game and here are my 4 guesses:

1. They try to collect new evidence of how the notice of termination quoting the urgent need of my apt for the daughter is real and genuine. They think that by showing the daughter's involvement in this case now, it will make it more "real and genuine". The daughter didnt show up at the first hearing and she never issued any statement, no emails, no texts of how much she wants my apt, nothing. So now for the appeal they will show the mountain of evidence proving the reason is genuine.

2. In case I agree for the meeting they will record my answers and use them against me at the appeal.

3. To destroy my peace and stop me from feeling happy and secured after my win.

4. To show how unwilling i am to participate in a friendly meeting and how, in their opinion, it proves of how bad/nasty/awful guy I am.
The adjudicator wrote in the determination order that i appear genuine, honest and trustworthy while my landlord appears as untruthful and his evidence unreliable. They now will try to destroy this image and my character at the appeal.

After RTB Adjudicator's ruling, the losing party has a right to appeal to the Tribunal within 10 days. And that's what my landlord did. Having a team of lawyers behind him and despite the crushing determination order, the RTB will accept the appeal application if the €100 fee is paid.
So the next step is the Tribunal.

fritzelly

Do not entertain any contact with her - if she knocks on the door close the door

Curious1002

fritzelly wrote: »

Do not entertain any contact with her - if she knocks on the door close the door

100%

davindub

Curious1002 wrote: »

Hi All, again,
just to let you know that my landlord has just filed an appeal with the RTB. His lawyer sent me another letter yesterday saying that my landlord's daughter who "requires" my apartment for her use is available to meet with me to confirm that she requires to move into my apartment. Weird letter. They give me 7 days to respond. Crazy idea, but i suspect they just want to collect more evidence against me at this stage. I will ignore it just like i did with all previous letters.

So my joy of winning the case against him lasted less than a week. I will see the bunch of them again at the appeal, probably in 1.5-2 months. The case details will be made public so you will read about this awful case in a few months on the RTB website. It just shows how determined some people are when they want someone out - the cost, the Law, the reputation doesnt matter to them.

Hard to see any logic in the letter, maybe it would be more appropriate to treat the letter as a termination notice and submit a new case to the RTB.

Curious1002

davindub wrote: »

Hard to see any logic in the letter, maybe it would be more appropriate to treat the letter as a termination notice and submit a new case to the RTB.

Can't do. The case with RTB is still active and relates to the same daughter and the same notice. I am unable to open a new case unless it relates to a brand new notice and a brand new reason (e.g. if a landlord claims that now his cousin requires my apt or he is selling it).

Somehow the silent daughter who was abroad for many years has just resurfaced after her dad lost the RTB case and wants to meet with me to tell me in person of how much she "requires" to move into my apartment (this is exactly how it was put in the letter).
How ridiculous that even sounds. Maybe she came back from abroad for good or maybe she came for holidays, dont know. The point is that there were many empty apts in the building on the day they handed me the Termination Notice yet they chose to kick me out instead of taking the identical empty one or at least allow me to move to the empty one. They didn't agree for any option and they lost the case. The adjudicator at my case specifically quoted the case of Ms. Duniyva where a judge pointed out on the issue between a "genuine need" versus "desire". The judge suggested that termination of the tenancy must be essential or important rather than just desirable.

fritzelly

If someone woman turns up at the hearing I might be inclined to ask for proof of ID

Always Tired

When my LL filed an appeal after I won a case for unlawful termination. there wasnt another tribunal, they just had someone review it.

When the review was completed, the result of the appeal was me being awarded 3 times the original amount. Might want to tell your landlord that. Or maybe not.

I would just ignore the letter from the daughter, but be prepared if someone waits for you to emerge from the flat to confront you on the street. If that happens, ask for ID, take your phone out and start filming, put them on the back foot, or just keep walking and ignoring them.

He won't win the appeal, it can only get worse for them. He just doesnt want to pay, not realizing that the appeal can actually cause him to be fined more. Though I don't necessarily think that will apply here, my original award was only a few hundred for changing the locks with my stuff inside, calling the guards on me when I reentered the property, a whole big hassle, which the 2nd adjudicator rightly said was too low and the appeal ended up increasing it to 4 figures. My LL waited til the last possible day to send me a check, but he did in the end, as it's an offense not to pay it.

Well done you for fighting your corner. They're clutching at straws now importing the daughter, what is she going to do? I'd be telling them the only meetings will be having are for you to cut that check!

Curious1002

Always Tired wrote: »

When my LL filed an appeal after I won a case for unlawful termination. there wasnt another tribunal, they just had someone review it.

When the review was completed, the result of the appeal was me being awarded 3 times the original amount. Might want to tell your landlord that. Or maybe not.

I would just ignore the letter from the daughter, but be prepared if someone waits for you to emerge from the flat to confront you on the street. If that happens, ask for ID, take your phone out and start filming, put them on the back foot, or just keep walking and ignoring them.

He won't win the appeal, it can only get worse for them. He just doesnt want to pay, not realizing that the appeal can actually cause him to be fined more. Though I don't necessarily think that will apply here, my original award was only a few hundred for changing the locks with my stuff inside, calling the guards on me when I reentered the property, a whole big hassle, which the 2nd adjudicator rightly said was too low and the appeal ended up increasing it to 4 figures. My LL waited til the last possible day to send me a check, but he did in the end, as it's an offense not to pay it.

Well done you for fighting your corner. They're clutching at straws now importing the daughter, what is she going to do? I'd be telling them the only meetings will be having are for you to cut that check!

Jesus, you had more stuff going on than I do! And Guards were involved too, damn.
Shock that they awarded you only a few $ at first but glad they rectified later, but still low. It also shows how p*ed off my adjudicator was at my LL when i got awarded on the paper with 5K right after the first hearing.

I wish the RTB doesnt allow the appeal to the Tribunal and will stop it at the "review" phase. I really dont know what reasons they will use for the appeal other than maybe a new statement from a silent daughter of how badly she needs my apartment. Any other arguments are pretty much impossible to beat. But then who knows, maybe they will pull a rabbit from a hat and will surprise us with some shocking revelations.
My LL has a big legal team and I am sure their appeal papers will sound scary enough for the RTB so they will allow the appeal to go ahead rather than risking being sued by my LL team.
Another few peaceful months of my life lost, first 5-6 weeks until the appeal hearing and then 4-5 weeks of waiting for the decision. I can't have a break.

Thanks for the heads up about the daughter showing up at my doorstep or my work. I will certainly make sure to keep my mouth shut and film/record her. Hard to go through life watching my every move and constantly thinking of what else they will come up with.
If i never write a comment on this thread again then you know they got me! (I am serious ).

NUTLEY BOY

OP if you start receiving unwanted / unwelcome attention consider reporting it to the Gardaí as harassment.

To inform yourself see this link to the offence http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/10/enacted/en/html#sec10

davindub

Curious1002 wrote: »

Can't do. The case with RTB is still active and relates to the same daughter and the same notice. I am unable to open a new case unless it relates to a brand new notice and a brand new reason (e.g. if a landlord claims that now his cousin requires my apt or he is selling it).

Somehow the silent daughter who was abroad for many years has just resurfaced after her dad lost the RTB case and wants to meet with me to tell me in person of how much she "requires" to move into my apartment (this is exactly how it was put in the letter).
How ridiculous that even sounds. Maybe she came back from abroad for good or maybe she came for holidays, dont know. The point is that there were many empty apts in the building on the day they handed me the Termination Notice yet they chose to kick me out instead of taking the identical empty one or at least allow me to move to the empty one. They didn't agree for any option and they lost the case. The adjudicator at my case specifically quoted the case of Ms. Duniyva where a judge pointed out on the issue between a "genuine need" versus "desire". The judge suggested that termination of the tenancy must be essential or important rather than just desirable.

The original notice has already been served and found invalid. The letter you recieved post case could be regarded as relating to the same ongoing matter in a broad sense, but what you would be bringing a case for is the new letter refers to terminating your tenancy, hence it could be regarded as a new notice and a futher breach of the landlords duties to allow peaceful occupation. FLAC or whomever you are getting help from can provide further guidance on the matter.

Curious1002

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

OP if you start receiving unwanted / unwelcome attention consider reporting it to the Gardaí as harassment.

To inform yourself see this link to the offence http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/10/enacted/en/html#sec10

Thanks mate, that's super helpful. Copied the legislation into my notes.

They wont do it in an obvious nasty way, they will do it very subtlely, the " I need to come over to inspect the boiler" kinda way. The daughter's meeting request came from my LL's solicitor so it appears more "legal and proper". If she did it on her own via FB or Linkedin or just texted me without me providing my mobile to her then it would look too random and inappropriate but because it came from the LL's legal team so it can give impression that it's ok. They are smart and they know that i would use their every move and word against them.

Either way i collect everything and in a few months i may have a bag of additional evidence showing unwarranted and unwanted attention that qualifies as harrassment. If they lose the appeal then they will double their efforts to remove me and may start e.g. a random fire in my apt. I bet that they would cos they would cash on the insurance and will have me out. Win-win for them.

Curious1002

davindub wrote: »

The original notice has already been served and found invalid. The letter you recieved post case could be regarded as relating to the same ongoing matter in a broad sense, but what you would be bringing a case for is the new letter refers to terminating your tenancy, hence it could be regarded as a new notice and a futher breach of the landlords duties to allow peaceful occupation. FLAC or whomever you are getting help from can provide further guidance on the matter.

I agree 100%. If post the appeal that hopefully will also be ruled to my favour, I get one more letter, call, text, comment or a meeting bothering me about my apt (other than a normal repair stuff) then I will definitely open a brand new case under the new heading exactly what you stated: "Breach of the landlords duties to allow peaceful occupation". Someone in here even suggested a call to Guards to report the harassment, even though it may appear quite harmless in its severity.

I will prove that during and after the RTB case they resorted to even more legal threats, intimidation and disturbance to my life. I will prove that they appear to have doubled their efforts to scare and force me to engage in nasty exchange with them, which I refuse to do. Flac advised on the perfect wording of all this; i would not have worded it better:

"As I am Part 4 tenant, my landlord and his legal team are doing everything in their power to deliberately create conditions that are uncomfortable for me in order to induce my willing abandonment of my rented property. Harassing me with the intention of making my living situation so uncomfortable and unbearable so I want to move is illegal and constitutes a serious penalisation.
My landlord retaliates against me for acting within my legal rights and challenging his unlawful conduct towards me."

Have just read the thread. Best of luck OP. This guy and his solicitor give their respective professions a bad name.

Curious1002

Deleted User wrote: »

Have just read the thread. Best of luck OP. This guy and his solicitor give their respective professions a bad name.

Big time, Chinese whospers! And cheers.
I know that there are many fantastic landlords out there who cringe on reading about my experience. It went too far to back down, I will expose them and their shady business even with the cost of my sleepless nights and having my reputation besmeared.
It's also a good test to our judicial system to see how the Law operates in practice. So far the Adjudicator got it perfectly right, let's see how it goes in the Tribunal.
The advantage to my LL now is that he will prepare a bit better for the new hearing knowing what evidence is there against him. He will also bring a darling daughter with him who will testify how badly she needs my apt, not the other 5 that were empty and available to her at the time.

fritzelly

fritzelly wrote: »

If someone woman turns up at the hearing I might be inclined to ask for proof of ID

You can ask but they would almost certainly refuse. Your essentially calling a witness a liar without reason

Donald Trump

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I fear my other half would shit the bed if I did, she doesn't want the stress/hassle - and neither do I tbh.

Just send a letter to your old address, addressed to "Current Occupier" which has your contact details and copies of your rent receipts/contracts.


Then let them take it up with the PRTB if they want to save themselves a few quid!