Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

CramCycle

Optimus Prime wrote: »

I dont see how those comics are canon either, considering Data is alive in the prequel one to the 2009 film.

I was confused about this, did the show seemed to imply that Data was alive and something else happened.

Evade

I hadn't notice until the RLM guys brought it up but they also changed which star went supernova and destroyed Romulus.

pixelburp

I like RLM & their style, but think they've brought too much cynicism into that review, including some big swings that I think are way off (specifically, that the Roumulans built the Cube? It's fairly clear they haven't). Mike & Rich are a little too far into the Trek weeds, they seem to have a very definite preference of Trek's base template. Seems way too early to be reviewing a show based on one serialised episode.

Fair point on the dodgy science, hadn't really thought about the Mars inaccuracies TBH, but the Supernova is an event in the Prime Universe. I suppose they could have just ignored it completely and maybe fans would have accepted it given the antipathy towards those movies, but it's hard to sweep a supernova under the rug - no matter how cosmically impossible it could have been.

CramCycle

Evade wrote: »

I hadn't notice until the RLM guys brought it up but they also changed which star went supernova and destroyed Romulus.

But that did happen in the ST20009 movie and the prime timeline, thats where the split in the timelines happen, because it was destroyed or I have missed something else

Evade

CramCycle wrote: »

But that did happen in the ST20009 movie and the prime timeline, thats where the split in the timelines happen, because it was destroyed or I have missed something else

In ST2009 it wasn't the star Romulus orbits it was in a different star system.

Evade

Evade wrote: »

In ST2009 it wasn't the star Romulus orbits it was in a different star system.

Which then makes no sense because it would 20 years for a shock-wave to reach from just 1 light-year out. Plenty of time for the Romulans to evacuate themselves (and we would have known about it in Trek)

Local star going Nova would make more sense, as they could say that they detected the process months out and were scrambling to evacuate the system

CramCycle

Evade wrote: »

In ST2009 it wasn't the star Romulus orbits it was in a different star system.

Completely missed that

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

Which then makes no sense because it would 20 years for a shock-wave to reach from just 1 light-year out. Plenty of time for the Romulans to evacuate themselves (and we would have known about it in Trek)

Local star going Nova would make more sense, as they could say that they detected the process months out and were scrambling to evacuate the system

It was supposed to end up destroying the galaxy too, so it's obviously not a regular supernova. It's still stupid to just call it a supernova, change it to a quantum fissure or tetrion filament or something and problem solved.

In this version they had two years warning and still didn't make it out.

silverharp

a quick google search suggested the population of Romulus was 18bn , how do we get to the 900m?

Evade

silverharp wrote: »

a quick google search suggested the population of Romulus was 18bn , how do we get to the 900m?

Star Trek writers are famously bad at maths. The amount of people that died in the Bajoran occupation barely outpaces death by natural causes for a planet that size

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

a quick google search suggested the population of Romulus was 18bn , how do we get to the 900m?

They were down to the final 900 million even factoring in all available ships and needed the ferries for that last billion??

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

They were down to the final 900 million even factoring in all available ships and needed the ferries for that last billion??

I guess we will see how they fill it in. I gather the “Romulan Empire” consisted of about 8 or 9 planets with a couple being in their home system. So there still should be a structure in place all things considered. If they make it out to just being a single planet that will be bullsh1t

Greyjoy

pixelburp wrote: »

I like RLM & their style, but think they've brought too much cynicism into that review, including some big swings that I think are way off (specifically, that the Roumulans built the Cube? It's fairly clear they haven't). Mike & Rich are a little too far into the Trek weeds, they seem to have a very definite preference of Trek's base template. Seems way too early to be reviewing a show based on one serialised episode.

i did get a good laugh from their reaction to Picard saying he never lost trust in Data by showing a montage of all the times Data attempted to either take over the ship or betray the crew.

H3llR4iser

Watched the first episode Friday night and the impression is very positive; The pacing was actually spot on for me, sort of halfway between that of a movie and a TV series - avoiding the modern, infuriating tendency to pile questions upon questions while never answering them (I blame "Lost" for starting the trend).

Some interesting representation of Earth in the 25th century outside of a starship or a space station - whenever we got a glimpse of it in TNG/DS9/VOY, it looked like 1990s USA with people wearing weirdly soft clothes walking around. Guess that back then the technology simply wasn't there...and to be honest, some things probably wouldn't even have been as relatable when screens were deeper than wider and we didn't have...PADD devices.

Little thing: the FNN is basically television, which was pretty much said to not exist anymore in "The Neutral Zone". I'm not nitpicking, it's a show - they need to put stuff in that the audience can relate to and understand (ironically, imagining TV would be eventually made obsolete was easier to believe in 1988 than it is in 2020), but that was an opportunity to do come up with some new ideas.

For the same reason, while the whole thing about using "synth" instead of "android" can be explained with the fact they really are referring to "synthetic humans" being made of flesh, blood, organs and whatnot, I am also firmly convinced part of the reason is that a large chunk of the audience would subconsciously associate the word "android" with smartphones, making it sound somewhat weird. Swings and roundabouts if you wish, the same with the way Americans pronounce the name of the planet "Uranus"

Evade wrote: »

It was supposed to end up destroying the galaxy too, so it's obviously not a regular supernova. It's still stupid to just call it a supernova, change it to a quantum fissure or tetrion filament or something and problem solved.

In this version they had two years warning and still didn't make it out.

I am not sure how much this has been mentioned in other works, but after the 2009 movie, there was a strong implication that the Hobus nova was indeed an extraordinary event, unexpected and pretty much caused artificially.

Evade

silverharp wrote: »

I guess we will see how they fill it in. I gather the “Romulan Empire” consisted of about 8 or 9 planets with a couple being in their home system. So there still should be a structure in place all things considered. If they make it out to just being a single planet that will be bullsh1t

It would have to be bigger than that to be a threat to the Federation and a valuable Dominion War ally.

pixelburp

Greyjoy wrote: »

i did get a good laugh from their reaction to Picard saying he never lost trust in Data by showing a montage of all the times Data attempted to either take over the ship or betray the crew.

It's the curse of an episodic show like TNG, especially one with those 22 episode runtimes: pick a character and there were doubtless a half dozen times they either behaved completely against type, or did something that in a serialised show (or real life!) would have shattered any pre-existing relationships.

Honestly I thought it curious myself when he said it, even if I couldn't thin of specific circumstances where Data behaved abnormally. I don't believe Picard (the show) contradicts those moments however: Data died, sacrificing himself for his Captain. Even if prior to that they never had that strong a relationship, it's entirely possibly that that moment haunted Picard, the sting of regret you might feel for all those times you SHOULD have been closer. His pronouncements to FNN & the world could be his guilt, projecting out about a closeness we know never existed, but one he now tries to backfill via dreams & denial.

The RLM video is sarcastic, and Alex Kurtzman is a hack, but this show is being run by Michael Chabon, a genuinely talented writer who knows a thing or two about shaping characters with his written work.

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

I guess we will see how they fill it in. I gather the “Romulan Empire” consisted of about 8 or 9 planets with a couple being in their home system. So there still should be a structure in place all things considered. If they make it out to just being a single planet that will be bullsh1t

The maps would so not support just 8 or 9 planets unless there are hundreds of vassal races in the Empire

Greyjoy

Overall I liked the episode but wasn't blown away by it. It's mostly just a episode of setup for the rest of the season. It didn't feel like it had built up much momentum for the rest of the season. Even though I think the RLM review was harsher than my reaction I did agree with them that the writers seem to be exaggerating Picard's relationship with Data.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I like Hulu's way of doing a series drop, Drop the first three episodes at once and then do the rest of them weekly.

Fully agree. In a similar way to S1 of Discovery dropping the first two eps together it would have allowed them to get all the exposition out of the way in the first episode and make some actual progress into the story during the 2nd ep.

Mancomb Seepgood

I liked it a lot.The FNN interview had me rolling my eyes a bit but I can see why they did it,bit of a predictable device though.What I found most jarring was Picard wearing a tie,I had assumed they went permanently out of fashion sometime after the formation of the Federation.

Overall it reminded me why Jean-Luc Picard is my all time favourite character.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

It's the curse of an episodic show like TNG, especially one with those 22 episode runtimes: pick a character and there were doubtless a half dozen times they either behaved completely against type, or did something that in a serialised show (or real life!) would have shattered any pre-existing relationships.

Honestly I thought it curious myself when he said it, even if I couldn't thin of specific circumstances where Data behaved abnormally. I don't believe Picard (the show) contradicts those moments however: Data died, sacrificing himself for his Captain. Even if prior to that they never had that strong a relationship, it's entirely possibly that that moment haunted Picard, the sting of regret you might feel for all those times you SHOULD have been closer. His pronouncements to FNN & the world could be his guilt, projecting out about a closeness we know never existed, but one he now tries to backfill via dreams & denial.

The RLM video is sarcastic, and Alex Kurtzman is a hack, but this show is being run by Michael Chabon, a genuinely talented writer who knows a thing or two about shaping characters with his written work.

There was nearly always an outside force affecting the person though, so Picard would be right in saying that he never doubted Data, in a day to day environment.

Greyjoy

pixelburp wrote: »

It's the curse of an episodic show like TNG, especially one with those 22 episode runtimes: pick a character and there were doubtless a half dozen times they either behaved completely against type, or did something that in a serialised show (or real life!) would have shattered any pre-existing relationships.

Unlike the rest of the crew Data being a machine allowed the writers an easy way for them to turn him against his crewmates. Pretty much all the crew had some form of "manchurian candidate" story at one stage or another but it seemed to happen to Data on multiple occasions.

Greyjoy

Greyjoy wrote: »

Unlike the rest of the crew Data being a machine allowed the writers an easy way for them to turn him against his crewmates. Pretty much all the crew had some form of "manchurian candidate" story at one stage or another but it seemed to happen to Data on multiple occasions.

The one time that Data was acting under his real self, and betraying everyone, was actually to save the ship from the Paxans, in Clues

silverharp

Deleted User wrote: »

The maps would so not support just 8 or 9 planets unless there are hundreds of vassal races in the Empire

I was just going with this.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/115707/what-are-the-relative-sizes-of-the-various-political-factions-in-star-trek

[/PlanetsEdit
◾ Benzar (Federation planet liberated from the Dominion by Romulan forces in 2374)
◾ Carraya IV (Carraya system) (likely outside of actual Romulan territory)
◾ Chaltok IV
◾ "Eden" (likely uninhabited)
◾ Khitomer (Khitomer system, site of a Klingon colony at least until 2346, within Romulan territory as of 2369)
◾ Rator III
◾ Remus (Romulan system)
◾ Romulus (Romulan system)
◾ Unnamed Romulan planet near Neutral Zone
◾ Unnamed Minshara-class planet

Evade

silverharp wrote: »

I was just going with this.

https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/115707/what-are-the-relative-sizes-of-the-various-political-factions-in-star-trek

That's just a list of the planets named in Star Trek episodes/movies not a complete list of the planets in the empire.

AMKC

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Little thing: the FNN is basically television, which was pretty much said to not exist anymore in "The Neutral Zone". I'm not nitpicking, it's a show - they need to put stuff in that the audience can relate to and understand (ironically, imagining TV would be eventually made obsolete was easier to believe in 1988 than it is in 2020), but that was an opportunity to do come up with some new ideas.

Only 20 years left of T.V so I suppose we should enjoy it while its here still lol:rolleyes:

I am not sure how much this has been mentioned in other works, but after the 2009 movie, there was a strong implication that the Hobus nova was indeed an extraordinary event, unexpected and pretty much caused artificially.

Maybe it was Section 31 that did it?

Little thing: the FNN is basically television, which was pretty much said to not exist anymore in "The Neutral Zone". I'm not nitpicking, it's a show - they need to put stuff in that the audience can relate to and understand (ironically, imagining TV would be eventually made obsolete was easier to believe in 1988 than it is in 2020), but that was an opportunity to do come up with some new ideas.

Only 20 years left of T.V so I suppose we should enjoy it while its here still lol:rolleyes:

TheValeyard

I wonder with Romulus destroyed, did the Klingons invade, like in the alternate timeline?

ManOfMystery

First episode was brilliant IMO. A real joy to see Picard back onscreen.

I noted that in the opening scene (Picard's dream sequence), Data laid down his 5 cards and each had 'Q' on it. Just a random coincidence or foreshadowing of a certain omnipotent deity perhaps pulling the strings? After all, he's been known to toy with Picard's dreams and dreamlike states before.

Also all Queens, ala Borg Queen

FutureGuy

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s a good laugh and they’ve got a fair bit bang on. Are they incorrectly focusing on the Romulans building the cube or did I miss something though? I assumed they had found a wreck or taken one from the Borg.

The review was really honest and hits a number of points that you could have a gripe about but they have the Borg piece completely wrong in my opinion. They review takes advantage of their natural goofiness for its benefit, but they let it overtake their judgement towards the end.

It makes absolutely no sense for the Romulans to build a Borg cube. They are probably using Borg tech from an abandoned cube to rebuild the Romulan empire faster. We know the Narada from the 2009 film was a simple mining ship which was significantly upgraded by Borg technology.

I’d even say that Voyager could have crippled the Borg significantly on their return to Earth in Endgame. That may explain a lot of things, including the derelict cube.

I really like the fact that it’s weekly as it allows us to speculate for a week.

FutureGuy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The one time that Data was acting under his real self, and betraying everyone, was actually to save the ship from the Paxans, in Clues

I loved Clues.