Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

pah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2XrkuexUaY

This sums it up for me.

AMKC

ManOfMystery wrote: »

First episode was brilliant IMO. A real joy to see Picard back onscreen.

I noted that in the opening scene (Picard's dream sequence), Data laid down his 5 cards and each had 'Q' on it. Just a random coincidence or foreshadowing of a certain omnipotent deity perhaps pulling the strings? After all, he's been known to toy with Picard's dreams and dreamlike states before.

Your at least the second person to mention Q on here and I would say most of us have thaought about that. I would say if John De Lancie is up for it he might make an appearance at some stage afterall he has been in TNG, Voyager and DS9. So why not Picard as well? That is if they have a good story and reason for him to be there.

Deleted User wrote: »

Also all Queens, ala Borg Queen

Maybe they just thought it was a nice way to reference both the Borg Queen and Q.

FutureGuy wrote: »

The review was really honest and hits a number of points that you could have a gripe about but they have the Borg piece completely wrong in my opinion. They review takes advantage of their natural goofiness for its benefit, but they let it overtake their judgement towards the end.

It makes absolutely no sense for the Romulans to build a Borg cube. They are probably using Borg tech from an abandoned cube to rebuild the Romulan empire faster. We know the Narada from the 2009 film was a simple mining ship which was significantly upgraded by Borg technology.

I’d even say that Voyager could have crippled the Borg significantly on their return to Earth in Endgame. That may explain a lot of things, including the derelict cube.

I really like the fact that it’s weekly as it allows us to speculate for a week.

Just like old times:D

Also it gives people time to watch and even get to see it a second time.

It makes absolutely no sense for the Romulans to build a Borg cube.

I agree even if the Romulans knew how to build a Borg Cube it still would not make sense and the resources need to do it would be massive.

Dante7

I can't see Q coming back. The presence of an omnipotent being who could resolve all issues in a series, with the click of his fingers wouldn't sit right in a full story arc. He was fine for individually resolved episodes, but not for this.

AMKC

Dante7 wrote: »

I can't see Q coming back. The presence of an omnipotent being who could resolve all issues in a series, with the click of his fingers wouldn't sit right in a full story arc. He was fine for individually resolved episodes, but not for this.

But maybe the Q continuam have banned Q and he decides to join the Federation. Would not be the same then would it as he is not really Q then just another ordinary being and it was done before kinda.

Dante7

AMKC wrote: »

But maybe the Q continuam have banned Q and he decides to join the Federation. Would not be the same then would it as he is not really Q then just another ordinary being and it was done before kinda.

That is just Q without his powers and it has already been done. It would be just shoehorning him for the sake of it. A Q presence offers nothing to this storyline.

TheValeyard

Dante7 wrote: »

I can't see Q coming back. The presence of an omnipotent being who could resolve all issues in a series, with the click of his fingers wouldn't sit right in a full story arc. He was fine for individually resolved episodes, but not for this.

Q will be back. Because Picard is back.

Brian?

pah wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2XrkuexUaY

This sums it up for me.

Why do all these people have such a problem with diversity?

That review is trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

odyssey06

Brian? wrote: »

Why do all these people have such a problem with diversity?

I object to the token use of French and the lack of actual wine drinking

pah

Brian? wrote: »

Why do all these people have such a problem with diversity?

That review is trying to be edgy for the sake of being edgy.

I agree with you on that part. If he stuck to the rest of his critique and left that bit out I would have more respect as his video series is entertaining in general.

That "review"...
Trek NEVER gave balanced arguments and allowed viewers make up their own mind. It would only look like that by viewing older shows with modern viewpoints.
Trek always plainly laid out where the issues were and who was in the wrong and it was very very rarely subtle about it.

And diversity???
In a show about aliens of every different colour he goes on about diversity
(*Cough* Chekov, Sulu, Uhura *Cough*)
(*Cough* Head of Security Tasha, Head of Security Worf, Head of Engineering Geordi, Head of Medical Crusher *Cough*)
(*Cough* Captain Sisko, Head of Bajoran liaison and XO Kira, Head of Science and all round badass Dax, Head of Star Fleet Security Worf *Cough*)
(*Cough* Captain Janeway, XO Chakotay, Head of Security Tuvok, Head of Engineering B'Elanna, OPS Officer Kim *Cough*)
(*Cough* XO T'Pol, Communications Head Sato, Navigator/Helm Travis, Alien madman Doctor Flox *Cough*)

Would they grow the feck up.

pixelburp

Something something no room for politics, something something SJW, something something rammed down our throats. That's how it usually goes right? I'm sure it was the same in the 1960s... "Grr, I just want to watch a show about this Planet of Gangsters, and this show keeps ramming its anti-nuclear politics down our throats! PC Agenda has gone too far with all this minority casting wokeness"

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

Something something no room for politics, something something SJW, something something rammed down our throats. That's how it usually goes right? I'm sure it was the same in the 1960s... "Grr, I just want to watch a show about this Planet of Gangsters, and this show keeps ramming its anti-nuclear politics down our throats! PC Agenda has gone too far with all this minority casting wokeness"

That is exactly the theme and beats of it

odyssey06

pixelburp wrote: »

Something something no room for politics, something something SJW, something something rammed down our throats. That's how it usually goes right? I'm sure it was the same in the 1960s... "Grr, I just want to watch a show about this Planet of Gangsters, and this show keeps ramming its anti-nuclear politics down our throats! PC Agenda has gone too far with all this minority casting wokeness"

Did Next Generation? Maybe I was too young to pick up on its agenda... parts of The Neutral Zone maybe, The Outcast, Force of Nature.
But at least in my memory few and far between.

pixelburp

odyssey06 wrote: »

Did Next Generation? Maybe I was too young to pick up on its agenda... parts of The Neutral Zone maybe, The Outcast, Force of Nature.
But at least in my memory few and far between.

Episodes like The Outcast and Angel One definitely touched on topical issues of the day, be it gender politics and "Second Wave" feminism as I think it was called, or LGBT rights in the case of the former. It was there, sometimes more obvious than others but TNG touched on the issues of the day just as much as TOS - or any other "thinking man's" SciFi

The more things change...

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

Did Next Generation? Maybe I was too young to pick up on its agenda... parts of The Neutral Zone maybe, The Outcast, Force of Nature.
But at least in my memory few and far between.

Covered rape/sexual abuse, with Troi in Violations
Rights of "The Other" in Measure of a Man
Government hysteria and persecution in Drumhead
Veterans PTSD and social responsibility (particularly in US and Vietnam Vets into the 80s) in The Hunted

silverharp

If someone didn’t like diversity they wouldn’t like Trek at all so its obviously a bit more subtle. The Orville has carved out a niche and is plenty diverse

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

If someone didn’t like diversity they wouldn’t like Trek at all so its obviously a bit more subtle. The Orville has carved out a niche and is plenty diverse

It was always plenty obvious but a 30 year old, in the modern world, looking at TOS or TNG would not see it because society has moved on a lot in certain ways

odyssey06

Deleted User wrote: »

Covered rape/sexual abuse, with Troi in Violations
Rights of "The Other" in Measure of a Man
Government hysteria and persecution in Drumhead
Veterans PTSD and social responsibility (particularly in US and Vietnam Vets into the 80s) in The Hunted

That's touching on issues but not sure if it counts as a diversity agenda.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's touching on issues but not sure if it counts as a diversity agenda.

Easier to have an "Agenda" in serialised TV, particularly when people are looking for it.

I refer you to the crew again.
Female then black head of security
Black and blind Head of Engineering
Female head of Medical (twice)

And with single episodes they more than touched on the topics, they devoted the story to them

pixelburp

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's touching on issues but not sure if it counts as a diversity agenda.

The cast was as diverse as TOS was, perhaps more so given at the start 3 of the leads were women, as well as 2 black men (yes, Michael Dorn counts).

And as said, The Outcast and Angel One, however awful the latter was, touched on "hot topic" issues of the day. I believe there were noises made about including gay characters in the show but was a step too far for producers of the day.

silverharp wrote: »

If someone didn’t like diversity they wouldn’t like Trek at all so its obviously a bit more subtle. The Orville has carved out a niche and is plenty diverse

You'd think that yet this complaint of "how dare Trek have modern politics" still persists in this forum and elsewhere. There's a weird blindspot in the mindset of some folks who seem to operate under the false presumption that Trek is an apolitical show. The only difference it seems, is time. EAsy to claim there are no agendas when you're born long after the 1960s I guess. Heck, most people wouldn't think of "Gullivars Travels" as satire either.

From what I've seen, The Orville has had its fair share of "agenda" driven stories, so not sure why it gets a pass. Perhaps 'cos it's faux Trek and a blatant TNG nostalgia buzz, and some have a kneejerk hard-on for the Pure Faith being sullied. Easier to look the other way I guess when it doesn't have that official seal of approval.

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

From what I've seen, The Orville has had its fair share of "agenda" driven stories, so not sure why it gets a pass. Perhaps 'cos it's really Trek, and some have a kneejerk hard-on for the Pure Faith being sullied. Easier to look the other way I guess when it doesn't have that official seal of approval.

Christ, Bortus's entire story line has been one agenda after another. But people want it to succeed as it's so derivative of TNG that they purposefully ignore it.

silverharp

pixelburp wrote: »

You'd think that yet this complaint of "how dare Trek have modern politics" still persists in this forum and elsewhere. There's a weird blindspot in the mindset of some folks who seem to operate under the false presumption that Trek is an apolitical show. The only difference it seems, is time. EAsy to claim there are no agendas when you're born long after the 1960s I guess. Heck, most people wouldn't think of "Gullivars Travels" as satire either.

From what I've seen, The Orville has had its fair share of "agenda" driven stories, so not sure why it gets a pass. Perhaps 'cos it's faux Trek and a blatant TNG nostalgia buzz, and some have a kneejerk hard-on for the Pure Faith being sullied. Easier to look the other way I guess when it doesn't have that official seal of approval.

It’s the tone of the different shows , Trek has generally presented an optimistic post scarce resource society that has to deal with challenges , Trek now seems to be going down the dystopian route hence the relief that The Orville exists. Its valid I hope you would think to not like or agree with the change in tone. If the leaks are to be believed Maddox gets to be some kind of space Trump, if true my eyes will roll out of my head, hopefully not true

silverharp

silverharp wrote: »

It’s the tone of the different shows , Trek has generally presented an optimistic post scarce resource society that has to deal with challenges , Trek now seems to be going down the dystopian route hence the relief that The Orville exists. Its valid I hope you would think to not like or agree with the change in tone. If the leaks are to be believed Maddox gets to be some kind of space Trump, if true my eyes will roll out of my head, hopefully not true

Trek went down the route of, look at these backwards with their old timey ways.
It was laughing at the real world analogous targets of its examination.
It put them in scenarios and drove home a point, so much, that the audience thought "Well it's obvious that Kirk/Picard were right, look at those morons"


What "people" are demanding is that we get back to Trek, with all the societal issues solved because those issues make me uncomfortable facing up to. Even though Trek has been steeped in such issues from Day one, with the Network refusing Majel Barrett's "Number 1" role

pixelburp

silverharp wrote: »

It’s the tone of the different shows , Trek has generally presented an optimistic post scarce resource society that has to deal with challenges , Trek now seems to be going down the dystopian route hence the relief that The Orville exists. Its valid I hope you would think to not like or agree with the change in tone. If the leaks are to be believed Maddox gets to be some kind of space Trump, if true my eyes will roll out of my head, hopefully not true

To be fair, we haven't been talking tone, but the subtext that lies beneath the surface of every Trek series. Fair enough if the darker, more cynical take seen today isn't to your taste, but sticking to the subject of those who'd decry politics in Trek - The Orville is practically bursting at the seams with topical subjects, right there in the Text, nevermind SubText. Yet it appears to get a free pass by and large, whereas new-Trek gets dumped on by those with selective thinking or short memories. I don't know whether it's 'cos the superficial elements are frothier, or just that "hating new Trek" is the done thing for those with axes to grind.

I'm hoping that Picard's theme will be the Captain restoring some sense of character or conscience in the Federation, so in many respects we're possibly getting way ahead of ourselves parsing a whole season based on a Pilot episode that was simply setting the stage. I'd argue a "Wait and see" approach as to what part Picard & Friends have to play...

We'll see. I dunno, maybe I'm wasting my breath 'cos this circular argument keeps popping up over and over; Star Trek has always been politically charged. One may not like the politics that exist in the here and now, but it's simply continuing a trend that existed from Year 0 (albeit with less of the "Kirk tames the savages" plots you got fadó)

Stark

pixelburp wrote: »

Episodes like The Outcast and Angel One definitely touched on topical issues of the day, be it gender politics and "Second Wave" feminism as I think it was called, or LGBT rights in the case of the former. It was there, sometimes more obvious than others but TNG touched on the issues of the day just as much as TOS - or any other "thinking man's" SciFi

The more things change...

Was there a gender binary subtext in "The Outcast". So hard to tell as Trek was so subtle back then :pac:

degrassinoel

Enjoyed that, Patrick Stewart still has it.
Did the Romulan woman in Chateau Picard have a slight Irish accent or was i imagining it?
Looking forward to the next episode.

pixelburp

degrassinoel wrote: »

Enjoyed that, Patrick Stewart still has it.
Did the Romulan woman in Chateau Picard have a slight Irish accent or was i imagining it?
Looking forward to the next episode.

The actor, Orla Brady, is Irish so yup you heard right.

Evade

The progressive thing is weird in this day and age because the topics haven't really changed since TNG but society has. It's still racism=bad, LGBT=normal people, war=do not do this cool thing. Most people, especially Star Trek fans, already agree with those things. So who are they preaching to?

Unless Star Trek wants to honestly look at philosophies or ideologies counter to the writers' personal beliefs, say libertarianism that's not a McNukes and child prostitute parody, there might be nowhere else to go.

Stark

When are they "preaching"? Seems to be these days that for charcters who aren't white/male/heterosexual to even be present on screen is "preaching" and "ramming it down your throat"

Picard is only one episode in and between all the fast moving android/Borg/Romulan shenanigans, I can't possibly see how it's had time to push any sort of agenda. Not going to give that YouTube video the clicks they're looking for in order to find out either.

Evade

Stark wrote: »

When are they "preaching"? Seems to be these days that for charcters who aren't white/male/heterosexual to even be present on screen is "preaching" and "ramming it down your throat"

Picard is only one episode in and between all the fast moving android/Borg/Romulan shenanigans, I can't possibly see how it's had time to push any sort of agenda. Not going to give that YouTube video the clicks they're looking for in order to find out either.

RLM is the only Picard video I've watched. The Fox News FNN interviewer and the Romulans are people too bit was very on the nose.