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Half of Americans don’t know 6m Jews were killed in Holocaust (survey)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Isn't it time now to have a remembrance day for the the victims of what's known as the forgotten Holocaust.
    I am referring to the tens of millions of German civilians ethnically cleansed, murdered, raped and enslaved in the final months of World war 2 and the years following it.

    Take a look at a prewar map of Germany and the current map, there is huge strip of the country missing including almost all of the German state of Prussia.

    There was a Genocide took place there and in the Sudetenland plus other areas of Europe where there was German communities whose ancestors had settled there in ancient times.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭SaintLeibowitz


    Mr.burgess wrote: »
    Are you a jew ?? Not that it matters really just seems as though it offends you alot , i think there idiots who deny it or the number said

    Genocide denialism is something very reasonable to be offended by.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭victor8600


    archer22 wrote: »
    I am referring to the tens of millions of German civilians ethnically cleansed, murdered, raped and enslaved in the final months of World war 2 and the years following it.

    Do tell how many Germans were murdered in the years following WW2 under the terrible, terrible yoke of the Allied occupation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Theres no shortage of conspiracy folk and holocaust deniers on youtube and the like. Doubt they'd be that hard to find and most regurgitate the same stuff .
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Denialist and revisionist stuff. Those who fall for it are typically antisemites who only challenge the figures of Jews killed, but don't challenge any of the other figures - which should give you a clue

    Like flat earth, conspiracy theories, UFO's there is a lot of convincing looking "material" out there that prey on lay-people and like-minded individuals

    Ye... On second thoughts I don't think I'll bother.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Do tell how many Germans were murdered in the years following WW2 under the terrible, terrible yoke of the Allied occupation.

    I suggest you watch the documentary "Hellstorm" which gives all the details on that in a pretty fair and evidence based manner.

    I assume it's still on youtube unless its banned or censored now as inconvenient truths often are these days


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭SaintLeibowitz


    archer22 wrote: »
    I suggest you watch the documentary "Hellstorm" which gives all the details on that in a pretty fair and evidence based manner.

    I assume it's still on youtube unless its banned or censored now as inconvenient truths often are these days

    Of course there where atrocities done to Germans.

    Though the film you linked is not historical, it is neo nazi propaganda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    archer22 wrote: »
    Isn't it time now to have a remembrance day for the the victims of what's known as the forgotten Holocaust.
    I am referring to the tens of millions of German civilians ethnically cleansed, murdered, raped and enslaved in the final months of World war 2 and the years following it.

    Take a look at a prewar map of Germany and the current map, there is huge strip of the country missing including almost all of the German state of Prussia.

    There was a Genocide took place there and in the Sudetenland plus other areas of Europe where there was German communities whose ancestors had settled there in ancient times.

    You'll be hard pressed to find many people who'd care about those victims though.

    I've studied the war in one form or another for about 30 years now and I still find it astonishing that there is an absolute dearth of information regarding what happened to ethnic Germans in 1945, considering it was the largest case of ethic cleansing the world has seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    archer22 wrote: »
    I suggest you watch the documentary "Hellstorm" which gives all the details on that in a pretty fair and evidence based manner.

    I assume it's still on youtube unless its banned or censored now as inconvenient truths often are these days

    That's a neo-Nazi propaganda doc, it's creator is a full on white supremacist.

    Germans did suffer after the war, but no need for this Nazi nonsense


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Of course there where atrocities done to Germans.

    Though the film you linked is not historical, it is neo nazi propaganda.

    I don't see any "neo nazi propaganda" in it...he backs up everything with evidence.

    And he states clearly at the start that its exclusively about the Allied crimes committed against the Germans and does not cover any other crimes in World war 2.

    But if you want to rubbish it, thats your choice.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,935 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    archer22 wrote: »
    I suggest you watch the documentary "Hellstorm" which gives all the details on that in a pretty fair and evidence based manner.

    I assume it's still on youtube unless its banned or censored now as inconvenient truths often are these days

    Comments like these sound like it's just some weird form of propaganda. No thanks.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    Tony EH wrote: »
    I've studied the war in one form or another for about 30 years now and I still find it astonishing that there is an absolute dearth of information regarding what happened to ethnic Germans in 1945, considering it was the largest case of ethic cleansing the world has seen.
    Anyone can get a copy of Antony Beevor's brilliant book Berlin The Downfall?
    The Germans of East Prussia fled ahead of the advancing Red Army so is that ethnic cleansing?.
    East Prussia was given to the Soviet Union by agreement among the Allies at the Potsdam Conference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Comments like these sound like it's just some weird form of propaganda. No thanks.

    Its far from "propaganda" and with respect I think if you have not watched it all the way through then you are not really in a position to judge it


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,935 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    archer22 wrote: »
    Its far from "propaganda" and with respect I think if you have not watched it all the way through then you are not really in a position to judge it

    True but if it's just some random lad on Youtube then he doesn't have to adhere to any ethical or editorial guidelines. He can just spout what he wants with no consequences.

    While I haven't watched it, I can make an assessment from what little info I have and the way you seem to be trying to promote is frankly off putting. Googling it gives me the impression that it's some sort of perverse neo-Nazi propaganda.

    No thanks.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    archer22 wrote: »
    Its far from "propaganda" and with respect I think if you have not watched it all the way through then you are not really in a position to judge it

    It's far from a "documentary" either, here's an interview with the maker

    "Q. In a world where the idea of Whites loving our own race is laughed at and mocked, could Hellstorm actually offer us a chance at redemption? In other words, is it possible that Whites could see that we wronged each other in WW2 (not to mention WW1 and the Civil War), and that a wonderful reconciliation would come out of that?
    Yes, I hope that this film will help to ensure that travesties like the World Wars and Civil War are never allowed to happen again. While I support nationalism and the celebration of ethnic differences, European people must realize that there is so much that binds us together, and that if we remain at each other’s throats over historic squabbles, our continued destruction is ensured.

    We face a common assault, including anti-White indoctrination in schools and mass media, hostile invaders from the Third World, and leadership that puts alien interests ahead of our own. To fight against this we need a common defense that is able to cross the many barriers that keep us separated, such as language, geography, religion, and petty politics.

    Once we come to the realization that it was actually the White race that lost World War II, and that we have been losing ever since, we can finally heal old wounds, reclaim our identity and destiny, and move toward a brighter future.
    "

    You are better off sticking with quality historical sources than neo-nazi material


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Anyone can get a copy of Antony Beevor's brilliant book Berlin The Downfall?
    The Germans of East Prussia fled ahead of the advancing Red Army so is that ethnic cleansing?.
    East Prussia was given to the Soviet Union by agreement among the Allies at the Potsdam Conference.

    I can't recall the exactitudes of 'Berlin', but I don't think Beevor's book dealt specifically with the ethnic cleansing of Germans in Europe after the war. It's more focused on the lead up to May 8h, if I recall.

    However, the story of German ethnic cleansing goes on before and a long time after that date.

    In any case, 'Berlin' is one book and there aren't that many that even mention the situation that German civilians faced when the war ended and they were brutally forced out of areas of Europe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    True but if it's just some random lad on Youtube then he doesn't have to adhere to any ethical or editorial guidelines. He can just spout what he wants with no consequences.

    While I haven't watched it, I can make an assessment from what little info I have and the way you seem to be trying to promote is frankly off putting.

    No it's not...What I liked about it is that he does not tell what to believe, he produces evidence for everything and obviously put a mountain of work into putting it all together.

    It's actually quite harrowing viewing!.

    What do you mean me "trying to promote it" another poster asked me a question, and to view that was my response....since then you and another poster tryed to rubbish it without seeing it...my response is to explain why I do not believe to be rubbish....promoting it my hole!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    From multiple choice, only 45% gave the correct answer. Considering the amount of data and info we have at our fingertips, it's a little surprising to say the least

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/22/holocaust-survey-americans-pew-research-center

    Op, without googling, can you tell me how many people will killed during the American Civil War?

    Can you name the belligerent states?

    Can you tell me when it was ?

    I bet you won't get one of those question right without googling.

    I will give you a bonus for guessing what year Israel was invented in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    It's far from a "documentary" either, here's an interview with the maker

    "Q. In a world where the idea of Whites loving our own race is laughed at and mocked, could Hellstorm actually offer us a chance at redemption? In other words, is it possible that Whites could see that we wronged each other in WW2 (not to mention WW1 and the Civil War), and that a wonderful reconciliation would come out of that?
    Yes, I hope that this film will help to ensure that travesties like the World Wars and Civil War are never allowed to happen again. While I support nationalism and the celebration of ethnic differences, European people must realize that there is so much that binds us together, and that if we remain at each other’s throats over historic squabbles, our continued destruction is ensured.

    We face a common assault, including anti-White indoctrination in schools and mass media, hostile invaders from the Third World, and leadership that puts alien interests ahead of our own. To fight against this we need a common defense that is able to cross the many barriers that keep us separated, such as language, geography, religion, and petty politics.

    Once we come to the realization that it was actually the White race that lost World War II, and that we have been losing ever since, we can finally heal old wounds, reclaim our identity and destiny, and move toward a brighter future.
    "

    You are better off sticking with quality historical sources than neo-nazi material

    It was created by a guy called Kyle Hunt whom, among other things, believes in the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory. Tells you all you need to know about it really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Tony EH wrote: »

    I've studied the war in one form or another for about 30 years now and I still find it astonishing that there is an absolute dearth of information regarding what happened to ethnic Germans in 1945, considering it was the largest case of ethic cleansing the world has seen.

    What do you mean by a "dearth of information"? I suspect that many books have been written on the topic - why don't you use Google and find out?

    Here's the wikipedia page on the topic

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)

    What gaps in your knowledge on the subject were you hoping to fill in?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Holocaust denial carries a custodial sentence in the Germany, be careful where you are typing from.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Here we go..

    All the figures from WW2 are preposterous (e.g. Soviet POWs) or just the Jewish figure?

    The 6 million figure was arrived upon by using census records before & after the war. Not very reliable. It's an estimation, I have no doubt that a large number of Jews, Soviets, Blacks & Roma's died in those camps. But the figure is an estimate...


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    I wouldn't be too worried if someone got the exact number killed wrong tbh. Once they are aware that Jews were killed on a scale of millions.

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Op, without googling, can you tell me how many people will killed during the American Civil War?

    Nope, but I've heard of it. Not sure of the correlation to the subject, but certain historical events contain more significance because of what they represent, e.g. Rosa Parks.

    It's not about figures and death tolls, the message from these surveys is that basic knowledge of significant historical events seems to be relatively low among the public.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭victor8600


    archer22 wrote: »
    No it's not...

    Of course there is some evidence which one can spin out of proportion. For example, ethnic Germans were expelled out of Prussia, Poland and Czechoslovakia. That is a fact.

    Was it ethnic cleansing? In some sense it was. Was the suffering of the expelled Germans comparable to the systematic, planned murder of millions of Jews and other peoples in German-occupied territories in WW2? Not by a looooooong mile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    It was created by a guy called Kyle Hunt whom, among other things, believes in the "Great Replacement" conspiracy theory. Tells you all you need to know about it really.

    What's the saying on this site "don't attack the poster attack the post" so if we apply this to the producer of Hellstorm.

    Then tell me what parts of his Documentary are fake?


  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    Not surprising really, very few people these days are aware of the tens of millions murdered by the soviets, the millions that died in the Holomodor, the Armenian Genocide, the tens of millions that died in Communist China.
    In fact numerically the Holocaust was minor compared to the aforementioned, certainly minor compared to the overall number of people killed in WW2


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    The 6 million figure was arrived upon by using census records before & after the war. Not very reliable.

    Not just the census. Physical documents, details, surviving lists, interviews, corroborating witness testimonies, and countless substantiated details from the perpetrators themselves.

    The current historical consensus is approx 5.5 to 6.2 million, or for ease of reference "6 million". That consensus is from hundreds if not thousands of German and world historians, experts, researchers. Going by the camp to camp figures, and the estimates on the killings by the Einsatzgruppen, there is no real reason to doubt those estimates are significantly off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    The 6 million figure was arrived upon by using census records before & after the war. Not very reliable.

    Why would using census records be considered an unreliable method of counting the number of a particular group of people before and after a major episode or event?
    Surely that is the most reliable way of counting the death toll of the Holocaust?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭SaintLeibowitz


    Not surprising really, very few people these days are aware of the tens of millions murdered by the soviets, the millions that died in the Holomodor, the Armenian Genocide, the tens of millions that died in Communist China.
    In fact numerically the Holocaust was minor compared to the aforementioned, certainly minor compared to the overall number of people killed in WW2

    I don't think I've ever seen someone describe the holocaust as minor before.

    It isn't a competition of who was worse.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    I don't think I've ever seen someone describe the holocaust as minor before.

    It isn't a competition of who was worse.

    I said numerically minor.
    Compared to numbers of deaths in other atrocities


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