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Half of Americans don’t know 6m Jews were killed in Holocaust (survey)

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    #92
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Fritzbox wrote: »
    What do you mean by a "dearth of information"? I suspect that many books have been written on the topic - why don't you use Google and find out?

    It means that there's not a lot of material on the subject, considering how much is written every single year about the war.


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    #93
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    archer22 wrote: »
    What's the saying on this site "don't attack the poster attack the post" so if we apply this to the producer of Hellstorm.

    Then tell me what parts of his Documentary are fake?

    The guys background is in technology not history and he has noted biases towards the white race. If I came on here telling you to read a book on economics by a network engineer who happens to be a communist, what would you think?


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    #94
    Clarence Boddiker
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Clarence Boddiker


    SaintLeibowitz wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen someone describe the holocaust as minor before.

    It isn't a competition of who was worse.

    All of these atrocities should be viewed equally with none in particular regarded as more tragic than the other.


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    #95
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Of course there is some evidence which one can spin out of proportion. For example, ethnic Germans were expelled out of Prussia, Poland and Czechoslovakia. That is a fact.

    Was it ethnic cleansing? In some sense it was. Was the suffering of the expelled Germans comparable to the systematic, planned murder of millions of Jews and other peoples in German-occupied territories in WW2? Not by a looooooong mile.
    Who remembers the millions of Soviet citizens murdered by the Nazis in what were called "anti Partisan operations"?
    These 'operations' involved packing men, women and children into wooden barns and burning them alive but hey thats all forgotten now so lets back to how the Germans were persecuted.


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    #96
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It means that there's not a lot of material on the subject, considering how much is written every single year about the war.

    Most people don't even know it happened never mind the horrific extent of it.

    Yet comparing a modern map of Germany with a prewar map alone should raise a lot of questions about what happened to those people.


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    #97
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    archer22 wrote: »
    Most people don't even know it happened never mind the horrific extent of it.

    Yet comparing a modern map of Germany with a prewar map alone should raise a lot of questions about what happened to those people.

    There's no real reason for them to know though. It doesn't affect their daily lives.

    It's largely an academic matter nowadays.


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    #98
    archer22
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭archer22


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Who remembers the millions of Soviet citizens murdered by the Nazis in what were called "anti Partisan operations"?
    These 'operations' involved packing men, women and children into wooden barns and burning them alive but hey thats all forgotten now so lets back to how the Germans were persecuted.

    Who remembers the Cossack men women and children beaten and dragged onto trucks by allied soldiers at Linz and then delivered to the Soviets to be murdered on the spot.
    An interesting side note to that is that Churchill advised his commanders to use Irish and Scottish troops as "English soldiers might have moral qualms about doing it"


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    #99
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    To be fair to the Americans, I'd say most of them know the name of their first president.

    How many Irish know the name of their first Taoiseach?


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    #100
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Tony EH wrote: »
    Well, everything that happens on our planet is "world" history. However, certain events (or in the case of the holocaust, a series of events) can be localised to a specific region.

    However, why should modern Americans be required to possess such knowledge? It would behove them better to know how many people died in their own Civil war, for example. Or have a rough estimate of how many native Americans were slaughtered in their own country.


    Pretty sure most of the world knows about 9/11, even though it's technically "American history". Same with the Aussie fires at the moment, you'd have to be living under a rock to not know about it no matter what part of the world you're in. The exception of course being areas of mass/extreme poverty.


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    #101
    SaintLeibowitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭SaintLeibowitz


    Fritzbox wrote: »
    To be fair to the Americans, I'd say most of them know the name of their first president.

    How many Irish know the name of their first Taoiseach?

    Id say pretty much the whole population.


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    #102
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    SaintLeibowitz wrote: »
    Id say pretty much the whole population.

    Do they? Are you referring to the head of the government in 1922 or 1937?


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    #103
    SaintLeibowitz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭SaintLeibowitz


    Fritzbox wrote: »
    Do they? Are you referring to the head of the government in 1922 or 1937?

    We are taught it in primary school and secondary school.


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    #104
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    It's just straight up Holocaust denial bullshít.
    There should be no doubt about the fact that the Nazis singled out the European Jewish population for extermination particularly from 1941 until the end of the war.

    And what I don’t get is, even if the figure is lower than 6,000,000, like say it’s actually 2,000,000, is that any less horrific? Holocaust deniers be like “Oh, it wasn’t Horrific Number 1, it was actually Horrific Number 2”. What is their point exactly?


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    #105
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Nope, but I've heard of it. Not sure of the correlation to the subject, but certain historical events contain more significance because of what they represent, e.g. Rosa Parks.

    It's not about figures and death tolls, the message from these surveys is that basic knowledge of significant historical events seems to be relatively low among the public.

    My argument is that there are some things people just don't learn in school.

    How many Chinese nationals would be aware of the Holocaust, its' relevant permutations and how relevant it is to modern life? Are they even aware of its' own regimes' atrocities?

    Bashing uneducated Yanks is kind of irrelevant, I doubt anyone in power over there got the question wrong. You would be far better off saying that 1 in 3 US citizens do not receive a standard education, my ears may have been pricked then, just a little.


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    #106
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    And what I don’t get is, even if the figure is lower than 6,000,000, like say it’s actually 2,000,000, is that any less horrific? Holocaust deniers be like “Oh, it wasn’t Horrific Number 1, it was actually Horrific Number 2”. What is their point exactly?

    To revise the number (drastically) downward in order to suggest that the Holocaust itself was a Jewish conspiracy.

    Ironically the Holocaust itself was heavily fueled by similar antisemitic conspiracies in pre-war Germany


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    #107
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    SaintLeibowitz wrote: »
    We are taught it in primary school and secondary school.

    Who are "we"?

    "We" were taught the Irish language for typically 13 years, but how many of "us" can speak it?


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    #108
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Of course there is some evidence which one can spin out of proportion. For example, ethnic Germans were expelled out of Prussia, Poland and Czechoslovakia. That is a fact.

    Was it ethnic cleansing? In some sense it was. Was the suffering of the expelled Germans comparable to the systematic, planned murder of millions of Jews and other peoples in German-occupied territories in WW2? Not by a looooooong mile.

    Also Hungary.


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    #109
    Lonesomerhodes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Lonesomerhodes


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    From multiple choice, only 45% gave the correct answer. Considering the amount of data and info we have at our fingertips, it's a little surprising to say the least

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/22/holocaust-survey-americans-pew-research-center

    Everyone knows of the holocaust it's rammed down our throats by Hollywood 24/7.

    45% is a decent figure, nearly half and Americans don't care much for European history.

    Anyways It's referenced in countless movies, books, reports, lectures, dramas, documentaries etc etc.

    Millions of most races died in History.

    How many know of millions dead in Holodomor for example?.


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    #110
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    SaintLeibowitz wrote: »
    I know. Unfortunately cliff doesnt. I blame the scumbags on Youtube he's watching telling him otherwise

    Nah. The poster in question is a holocaust denier scum. For all we know, he put those videos up. This is his religion.


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    #111
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    Everyone knows of the holocaust it's rammed down our throats by Hollywood 24/7.

    24/7. Get a life.


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    #112
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,589 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »
    And what I don’t get is, even if the figure is lower than 6,000,000, like say it’s actually 2,000,000, is that any less horrific? Holocaust deniers be like “Oh, it wasn’t Horrific Number 1, it was actually Horrific Number 2”. What is their point exactly?

    Anti-semitism. No two ways about it. They hate Jews and are unhappy it wasn't 100%.


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    #113
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lonesomerhodes wrote: »
    Everyone knows of the holocaust it's rammed down our throats by Hollywood 24/7.

    Apparently not according to the survey

    How are you familiar with the Battle of Waterloo? or Gandhi? or Hannibal crossing the Alps with his elephants?

    Some historical events, due to their nature, due to the significance, timing, and any number of factors can be more significant and hit mainstream discourse more than others.

    It's estimated Genghis Khan was responsible for the deaths of 40 mm people. Not much attention from Hollywood. Whereas with WW2 and the Holocaust; recent history, culturally and socially relevant, happened within living memory, at a time when TV/movies were taking off, dozens of factors.


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    #114
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Dohnjoe wrote: »

    It's estimated Genghis Khan was responsible for the deaths of 40 mm people. Not much attention from Hollywood.

    Wasn't there a film with Jack Palance?


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    #115
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    so how many know that Chairman Mao was responsible for 32 million estimated deaths in the Great Leap Forward?


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    #116
    Fritzbox
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    squawker wrote: »
    so how many know that Chairman Mao was responsible for 32 million estimated deaths in the Great Leap Forward?

    More to the point: how many of the 1.3 billion citizens of Communist China know?

    Incidentally, I always though the normal given death toll as 50 million?


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    #117
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    I have been to the Nazi party headquarters in Munich. It has now been converted into an excellent museum.

    Nazi anti Semitism took its' early steps on the streets of Munich. I would ask everyone to go to that museum and see how they managed it. Quite literally day by day, week by week. the Nazi's changed the laws and rules constantly. First you could not own a business and then you couldn't go to certain shops ( basically apartheid ). Doctors and lawyers were banned from practising and Dachau was open as early as 1933.

    The holocaust was very real. No one should forget that chunts exist in this world and what those chunts are capable of when they get into power, it affects everyone.


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    #118
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,382 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    It's European history, although obviously they were heavily involved in ww2.

    Would we be able to answer basic American history questions?

    We should be.


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    #119
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    A lot of Americans don't know much about anything

    But not knowing much about anything is not restricted to the US


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    #120
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Sad thing is Republican led school boards are rewriting history books to suit their agenda.

    Generally the average American can't point to where their brothers and sisters are getting blew up or shot either.
    Large bottle small glass wrote: »
    Decline in Dylan fans it seems..


    The Second World War
    Came to an end
    We forgave the Germans
    And then we were friends
    Though they murdered six million
    In the ovens they fried
    The Germans now, too
    Have God on their side

    Do you know he wrote the Michael Bolton hit, 'Steel Bars'. No thank you Mr. Dylan. No thank you.


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    #121
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 18,071 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    I have been to the Nazi party headquarters in Munich. It has now been converted into an excellent museum.

    Nazi anti Semitism took its' early steps on the streets of Munich. I would ask everyone to go to that museum and see how they managed it. Quite literally day by day, week by week. the Nazi's changed the laws and rules constantly. First you could not own a business and then you couldn't go to certain shops ( basically apartheid ). Doctors and lawyers were banned from practising and Dachau was open as early as 1933.

    The holocaust was very real. No one should forget that chunts exist in this world and what those chunts are capable of when they get into power, it affects everyone.

    Yes indeed, many historians would say that the Holocaust actually started in 1933. The brainwashing on a national level was insane. Guards were told that any compassion or pity they had was a result of being "tricked" by their victims, brutality was not just encouraged it was a sign of being a good Nazi. At Treblinka for example, there was one camp guard with a sword who would stab and slice at the men, women and children who were about to be forced into the chambers. Another guard would take crying babies from their mother's arms and slam their heads off the cattle carts. Incredible sadism and slaughter on an industrial scale, as a national effort, by a first world country, in the twentieth century.

    There is the cog argument, but as far as we know, no camp guards or employees were ever punished for refusing to work at the extermination camps.


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