€60 per month in management fees?!

kippy

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Shouldn't people be blaming the developer for not building to the standard the council require?

People should blame the state and the developer.

Dav010

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Shouldn't people be blaming the developer for not building to the standard the council require?

The op can ask at the next AGM what the issue is, it may well be that the CoCo can’t or won’t.

MrMusician18

kippy wrote: »

People should blame the state and the developer.

Don't see why the State is at fault. If the developer wishes to build in the middle of nowhere and not bring out a connection to the public network, it's on them, not the state

dubrov

MrMusician18 wrote:

Shouldn't people be blaming the developer for not building to the standard the council require?

You misunderstand me. In most of these developments, the council are planning to never take the estate in charge. Developer quality is irrelevant.

Given a management company has already been setup, that is very likely the case here

Dav010

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Don't see why the State is at fault. If the developer wishes to build in the middle of nowhere and not bring out a connection to the public network, it's on them, not the state

Would that not be within the remit of the planning office of the local CoCo? I lived in an estate built not that far from Dublin which has its own sewerage system and group water scheme.

the_pen_turner

dco90 wrote: »

Hey all, OP here

Thanks for all of your input.


1. We were aware of the management fees at the time of offer. We thought that it was an error in the advertisement, but decided it was better to start the buying process while waiting for clarification. Now that we have signed our contacts, we have decided that it is an expense with which we can learn to live, but considering that we stand to lose almost €10,000 in the first 12 years of living there, I said I'd look into getting it taken over by the council so as to save this money

th is the problem. you seem to consider this a tax or donation to some foreign land. this is a cost to you for living in the house. just like electricity etc.
this service you are paying for consists of water to your home, sewerage away from your home. and maintanance of the common areas. all these cost money to maintain

hmmm

In many of the new estates the fees are going towards maintaining the area to a higher standard than the council would, and also maintaining things like front gardens - both of these enhance the value of the area and should be seen as an investment really. Otherwise you end up with these bare green areas without a tree or a shrub to be seen, and one or two houses with really run-down exteriors.

Gearoidknows

€60 euro a month is minimal, that is basically wages to pay someone for 2 hours. The water treatment plant would require upkeep, constant maintenance and repair. The green area requires maintenance, the roads, the lamps will periodically require maintenance and I'm sure theres plenty of other odds and ends also.

dubrov

No one knows if it is good value without seeing the services it covers.

Yellow_Fern

The breakdown of expenses in cases I have seen shows some mad easily avoidable costs.

Gearoidknows

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The breakdown of expenses in cases I have seen shows some mad easily avoidable costs.

The usual, the decisions are normally made at Management level without an understanding of the actual process on the ground

Yellow_Fern

Gearoidknows wrote: »

The usual, the decisions are normally made at Management level without an understanding of the actual process on the ground

The problem many people face is that these decision are made by specialists companies, organised by the builders. Often who refuse to hold AGMs and refuse to answer correspondence from residents. As a resident it can very charge hard to take charge.

Graham

Most management companies are owned by the owners. OMC = owners management company. Each owner owns a share and gets a vote.

The board of the OMC would be made up of volunteer owners voted in by the other owners.

CollyFlower

What pissees me off with these privately managed estates is that you have to pay a yearly property tax on top of your management fees. Just seems unfair.

jimmycrackcorm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

th is the problem. you seem to consider this a tax or donation to some foreign land. this is a cost to you for living in the house. just like electricity etc.
this service you are paying for consists of water to your home, sewerage away from your home. and maintanance of the common areas. all these cost money to maintain

Isn't it strange that the anti water charges crowd aren't out en masse protesting about the OP and rural dwellers having to pay these fees.

After all they pay taxes too.

jimmycrackcorm

CollyFlower wrote: »

What pissees me off with these privately managed estates is that you have to pay a yearly property tax on top of your management fees. Just seems unfair.

It's ok though if you get something in return.
My SiL pays 700 for her apartment but it includes building insurance and bins. So a substantial portion is what we all pay

Dav010

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The breakdown of expenses in cases I have seen shows some mad easily avoidable costs.

The benefit of being a management company stakeholder is that you can question those costs and object to them. Did you?

Yellow_Fern

Graham wrote: »

Most management companies are owned by the owners. OMC = owners management company. Each owner owns a share and gets a vote.

The board of the OMC would be made up of volunteer owners voted in by the other owners.

Many people wait years for this to happen

Yellow_Fern

Dav010 wrote: »

The benefit of being a management company stakeholder is that you can question those costs and object to them. Did you?

No I cant. They refuse to have a AGM, wont communicate etc. Apart from huge amounts spent on printing costs which is baffling is the amount spent on clamping when all my neighbors actually want far less clamping and 350 Eur on banking charges, 31,000 on managing agents etc.

Dav010

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Many people wait years for this to happen

A director’s term is limited to 3 years. If you want to be a Director, get proposed and seconded at the AGM. Having gone to AGMs for various developments over the years, and having served as a Director myself, very few people are interested in the positions. It is much harder to get off the Board than to get on to it. I stopped going to the AGMs so that I wouldn’t get nominated for re-election.

Dav010

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

No I cant. They refuse to have a AGM, wont communicate etc. Apart from huge amounts spent on printing costs which is baffling is the amount spent on clamping when all my neighbors actually want far less clamping and 350 Eur on banking charges, 31,000 on managing agents etc.

Then you need to see a solicitor as they are not in compliance with the MUD Act.

dubrov

31k for management agent fees to manage a development of 13 houses is scandalous if it is just for one year. IF it is for the full 12 years that is not bad.

As previously stated by others the management company is made up of owners in the estate. Each house will have one vote. If the members don't want clamping, they can vote to make it so.

The first thing is to contact the managing agent and request the current year's budget.
That should have a breakdown of expected spend per item for the current year.
If they refuse, request the details of the current directors and contact them directly.

Failing that, you can force an EGM and vote in new directors.
I wouldn't be paying anymore fees until this has happened.

For a development of that size, owners should consider rotating the management agent role between them. There are probably only about 5 items to be catered for (electricity, insurance, grass cutting, sewerage maintenance contract etc.). These contracts would renew annually unless you decided to shop around. You would need someone to do the annual account but it would be straightforward.

lausp

road_high wrote: »

I pay similar in a small estate in Kilkenny. Pays for upkeep of the estate (it’s kept very well in fairness), painting, and you dont get parking permits if you don’t pay it! Sounds pretty standard to me, can be a lot more in Dublin. Ultimately your decision but they’re clear before you buy that’s there’s a fee

I'm paying 1100 in Kilkenny for a house in a smallish estate. What does your management company charge per unit and do you have a sinking fund? Are your bins included (ours are).

lausp

dubrov wrote: »

31k for management agent fees to manage a development of 13 houses is scandalous if it is just for one year. IF it is for the full 12 years that is not bad.

How do you know it's scandalous without knowing where the money is going?

Our estate has a landscaper which costs 14k per year. The bins are communal which costs 10k per year. We have a sinking fund of 12k per year. We have a private sewage system also which requires maintenance.

We also have street lighting and maintenance such as painting and removal of compostable waste which regularly goes on.

You cannot say a figure is scandalous without seeing what is provided for it.

dubrov

lausp wrote: »

How do you know it's scandalous without knowing where the money is going?

Our estate has a landscaper which costs 14k per year. The bins are communal which costs 10k per year. We have a sinking fund of 12k per year. We have a private sewage system also which requires maintenance.

We also have street lighting and maintenance such as painting and removal of compostable waste which regularly goes on.

You cannot say a figure is scandalous without seeing what is provided for it.

You are thinking of service charges.
The management agent fee is purely the fee to administer all those services (i.e. procure contracts, meet service provider on site, bill member service charges, file accounts etc.).
31k a year would be high for 300 houses let alone 13 houses.

Dav010

dubrov wrote: »

You are thinking of service charges.
The management agent fee is purely the fee to administer all those services (i.e. procure contracts, meet service provider on site, bill member service charges, file accounts etc.).
31k a year would be high for 300 houses let alone 13 houses.

It would be very high indeed. I think that particular poster needs a little more info about their MC though,

Sarn

dubrov wrote: »

31k for management agent fees to manage a development of 13 houses is scandalous if it is just for one year. IF it is for the full 12 years that is not bad.

Different poster to the OP. I presume it’s a much larger development.

dubrov

Sarn wrote:

Different poster to the OP. I presume it’s a much larger development.

Yeah. Sorry I missed that. I had assumed it was the OP

Gearoidknows

CollyFlower wrote: »

What pissees me off with these privately managed estates is that you have to pay a yearly property tax on top of your management fees. Just seems unfair.

Yes but look what you're getting in return, all common areas are kept clean and painted, flower beds kept neat, road drainage, sewerage. House prices stay high, which in turn keep the parasites out.

Lantus

Dav010 wrote: »

Then you need to see a solicitor as they are not in compliance with the MUD Act.

PLEASE don't. Report to odce ré agm and if agent is running estate report other non compliance issues to prsa.

This assumes developer is not still running omc as mud act won't apply.