Three children found dead mod note in post 1

iamwhoiam

omega man wrote: »

I get that but it doesn’t reduce the act of child murder to any less of a heinous crime.

Obviously you don’t as you used the word “ mental health is no excuse “


Mental health is not an excuse to cause harm but it can be a reason . It doesn’t make it any easier or less sad but the reason has to be acknowledged and researched

omega man

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Obviously you don’t as you used the word “ mental health is no excuse “

Look it’s a highly emotive subject matter.
As a father of 3 young children, if I was in that desperate situation I imagine I wouldn’t feel the slightest compassion or understanding for the perpetrator regardless of their mental heath at the time. Not sure who would?

Fakediamond

[/QUOTE] I am so scared for the kids, I think they are ok once her parents are looking after them but when she moves out of her parents' I don't see how she could look after them by herself, she does not cope well with life or stress, she could not even look after herself the last few years before we had the kids. Not much equality for fathers in family law, the mother seems to have all the rights, no matter how unwell she evidently is. Is there nothing we can do before the children are physically harmed?


[/QUOTE]

If you are genuinely concerned regarding their welfare, you need to make a report to Tusla and allow them to independently assess the situation.

I’m all for improving education and treatment around mental health. But there has to be a line.

I refuse to empathise with any person that commits a horrific crime. We all know right from wrong.

I don’t know the specifics of this case yet, but it’s looking a certain way that I just can’t empathize and won’t empathize with.

iamwhoiam

omega man wrote: »

Look it’s a highly emotive subject matter.
As a father of 3 young children, if I was in that desperate situation I imagine I wouldn’t feel the slightest compassion or understanding for the perpetrator regardless of their mental heath at the time. Not sure who would?

I feel deep compassion for the father , for the children and for their grandparents and family and friends
But I also feel compassion for the mother

Unless I am told otherwise right now Yes I do feel compassion for her

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Obviously you don’t as you used the word “ mental health is no excuse “


Mental health is not an excuse to cause harm but it can be a reason . It doesn’t make it any easier or less sad but the reason has to be acknowledged and researched

nitpicking over wording and policing reactions to this seems a poor instinct

Snip

that seems to me to be a grossly unwise choice of word and whatever point you are trying to make might not be worth such hamfisted attempts

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

nitpicking over wording and policing reactions to this seems a poor instinct

Snip

that seems to me to be a grossly unwise choice of word and whatever point you are trying to make might not be worth such hamfisted attempts

I am not stating anything in this case actually . I was speaking in general
And it certainly is not nit picking to see a difference between an excuse and a reason
Having a reason by no means makes something right by the way .At no stage did I say a reason made it right or less horrendous

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

It's this type of sh1t that makes so many people hide mental health issues.

People like you with no understanding and no empathy.

Shame on you. Shame on you.

Three children are dead, a father is bereaved of his entire family, his life utterly destroyed , the extended families, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins completely devastated , a horror that will affect all them for the rest of their lives............and you want empathy for the perpetrator? Surely now is not the time!

I speak as a mother and as someone who currently has family members with mental health problems.

Mental health is a blanket term for people suffering from day to day work stress to full blown psychotic episodes, schizophrenia , severe personality disorders.........and everything in between. In its broader sense it shouldn’t be used as a reason or an excuse for someone wiping out their entire family. When specifics of the ‘mental health’ issues are known it might then be a topic for debate and this awful event might be easier to understand. Right now it’s not.

gooseygander

Near average of two people a day take their own lives in Ireland at present, scores actually attempt it, and hundreds if not thousands contemplate it. Mental illness is rampant in today’s society. I believe it is in nearly every family in Ireland and until it’s accepted it can’t be tackled. We have to remove its stigma which still exists and no longer sweep it under the carpet. Stay safe everybody and god help those 3 poor angels and their families.

iamwhoiam

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am not stating anything in this case actually . I was speaking in general
And it certainly is not nit picking to see a difference between an excuse and a reason

we are discussing a specific case and i think you are quite clear in your posts tbh

at any rate, the fact of the deaths is not justifiable one iota by any fear or belief held by their mother, snip

mental health is not bs, but the treatment and theories behind it do not make real-world actions go away, and a kneejerk defensiveness of what a person suffering mh issues might believe really has to be weighed and measured against the actual damage they are doing to others in just such circumstances as these.

it should not be offered as *either* a reason or an excuse. that's trite and reduces the victims to mere functions of a main party's illness.

it's in poor taste to be waiting in a thread like this for someone to say the wrong thing so that the "no actions of a mental health sufferer can be held against them" agenda can come out.

all imo but it is i think very relevant to the conversation that we as a society really struggle to have after these events.

iamwhoiam

[Deleted User] wrote: »

we are discussing a specific case and i think you are quite clear in your posts tbh

at any rate, the fact of the deaths is not justifiable one iota by any fear or belief held by their mother, snip

mental health is not bs, but the treatment and theories behind it do not make real-world actions go away, and a kneejerk defensiveness of what a person suffering mh issues might believe really has to be weighed and measured against the actual damage they are doing to others in just such circumstances as these.

it should not be offered as *either* a reason or an excuse. that's trite and reduces the victims to mere functions of a main party's illness.

it's in poor taste to be waiting in a thread like this for someone to say the wrong thing so that the "no actions of a mental health sufferer can be held against them" agenda can come out.

all imo but it is i think very relevant to the conversation that we as a society really struggle to have after these events.

You put words in my mouth that were never meant . I not once said “ a reason is excusing anything
A reason to do something does not necessarily mean its right . I make no excuses for this horrendous act .Not once did I say “ no action of a mental health sufferer should be held against them “ Nor do I think this

Die Hard 2019

Prominent_Dawg wrote: »

Crazy to read how some men feel the need to get defensive in cases like this, they’d have a killers back who’s main motive was to protect his identity, before anything about this murder is revealed..

Men are worried that the media portray that if a crazy man kills his family he's a killer but if a crazy woman kills her family she is crazy.
Men are feeling that their maleness is somehow something that makes them more guilty than they feel they are.

The same thing happened last Monday in Phoenix, Arizona. I saw it on Twitter and thought it was the saddest news story I had heard in a long time. Same details, 3 kids under ten and their mother is now in custody.

There are men that have killed their children & been found not guilty by reason of insanity.
It's not a male vs female thing.
It's just about whether they are guilty of murder or suffering from mental illness.

CollyFlower

Regardless of people saying 'we should talk more about mental health, be open about it'. I don't think it's going to stop tragedies like this...it's not something you can spot /pricdict.... It's so sad.

Kidchameleon

Family annihilation must be one of the worst things to ever happen, those poor angels. Hope they are OK now in heaven

NIMAN

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Family annihilation must be one of the worst things to ever happen, those poor angels. Hope they are OK now in heaven

I understand about people suffering from bad depression or mental illness, but it must be either something very deep to make you want to kill your kids before yourself.

Is there an element of being influenced by previous cases? The note with "Call the police, don't go upstairs"....seen in a previous case too.

NIMAN

Also read that the kids may have been sedated before their deaths.
And it was reported that she was a nurse at Crumlin.

Pawwed Rig

More bans and cards handed out. I would suggest people read the mod warning in the opening post and make sure they have a source when they comment on these events.


BoyConor - do not post in this thread again

car_radio19834

Darc19 wrote: »

It's this type of sh1t that makes so many people hide mental health issues.

People like you with no understanding and no empathy.

Shame on you. Shame on you.

Bull****.

Sick of everyone hiding behind mental health as an excuse.

Personal responsibility doesn't exist anymore I see.

- Can't get out of bed? Mental health!

- Can't go to social situations? Mental health!

- Isn't good at job interviews? Mental health!

- Kills your kids? Mental health!

Lonesomerhodes

Whoever murdered these kids should be called a serial child murderer by the media.

Why not call a spade a spade?.

The Hawe case is similar and they media quickly referred to him as a child murderer/ family annihilator and quite rightly.

In some ways I think this case is worse.

To kill people without any struggle or marking suggests strongly pre meditation and if that is the case suggests cold calculated planning.

car_radio19834

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Whoever murdered these kids should be called a serial child murderer by the media.

Why not call a spade a spade?.

The Hawe case is similar and they media quickly referred to him as a child murderer/ family annihilator and quite rightly.

In some ways I think this case is worse.

To kill people without any struggle or marking suggests strongly pre meditation and if that is the case suggests cold calculated planning.

I would say it's without doubt worse, Hawe killed himself.

Higgins5473

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Whoever murdered these kids should be called a serial child murderer by the media.

Why not call a spade a spade?.

The Hawe case is similar and they media quickly referred to him as a child murderer/ family annihilator and quite rightly.

I agree that is how the person who did it should be referred as but in fairness, this only happened two days ago, I've no doubt public anger will emerge more so in the coming weeks when all the facts are known and people have more time to let it sink in. Just shock and horror at the moment from most. I don't recall the media 'quickly' referring to Hawe as a murderer either.

Ash.J.Williams

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Whoever murdered these kids should be called a serial child murderer by the media.

Why not call a spade a spade?.

The Hawe case is similar and they media quickly referred to him as a child murderer/ family annihilator and quite rightly.

In some ways I think this case is worse.

To kill people without any struggle or marking suggests strongly pre meditation and if that is the case suggests cold calculated planning.

the media and the church took the sympathetic angle in the hawe case until clodaghs family changed the narative.

AudreyHepburn

I feel compassion for anyone suffering from mental health issues up to a certain point.

Taking innocent lives especially those of children cannot and should not ever be condoned nor excused as a result of someone being unwell.

When a man commits such an act he is rightfully hated and demonized. Why is it different when it’s a woman?

Wanderer78

AudreyHepburn wrote:

When a man commits such an act he is rightfully hated and demonized. Why is it different when it’s a woman?

Thankfully, when society realises that these murderers are simply evil people, and we place them in prison, it completely prevents these kind of acts occuring again

smelly sock

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/father-of-beautiful-children-bravely-attends-mass-as-newcastle-grieves-38896859.html

I'm sorry but to me that's a bit odd.

retro:electro

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/father-of-beautiful-children-bravely-attends-mass-as-newcastle-grieves-38896859.html

I'm sorry but to me that's a bit odd.

What’s odd?

iamwhoiam

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/father-of-beautiful-children-bravely-attends-mass-as-newcastle-grieves-38896859.html

I'm sorry but to me that's a bit odd.

Why is it odd ? People seek comfort where they are comfortable .

Fakediamond

smelly sock wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/father-of-beautiful-children-bravely-attends-mass-as-newcastle-grieves-38896859.html

I'm sorry but to me that's a bit odd.

I thought that too....