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Miami Showband Massacre

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2

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Media, politics, civil service and so on.

    And under the bed no doubt, Senator McCarthy.


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    #33
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it's impossible to deny that statement. but had some country not reached that level of hegemony, how retarded would mankind have been technologically ? i'm obviously not supportive of the unspeakable violence done by the british empire and the suffering that resulted but in terms of world history, if it wasnt them, it was probably gonna be someone else and there were dividends.




    Or - How advanced would (eg India) have become were it not subjugated to the Empire? There was indeed plunder to be had, and its quite possible some other power would have done much the same, but as it stands the British were the most successful of the plunderers and must be judged on what they did, not what some other actor may have done.


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    #34
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    wmahcm wrote: »
    Provos loved (.................)shopping.




    There was a provo empire? Fascinating Captain.


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    #35
    careless sherpa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 373 ✭✭careless sherpa


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Given that two of the killers were already members of the British military, collusion already existed. I suspect the late Nairac is being tied to this killing as a way of tidying up loose ends. He will probably also be blamed, now that he is safely dead, for every single unsolved killing of a Catholic right up to the estimated date of his death, so as to close a few files and bury the past. Apart from that, anyone on this thread who wished him a cruel death and an even crueller fate thereafter needs to have a close look at themselves.

    Is well known that he was heavily involved in the activities of the glennane gang. He deserved his fate


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    #36
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    horsebox1977 wrote: »
    Put through a mincer in South Armagh. The poor little mite.

    No he wasn’t. He was shot in Louth and his body was buried, then subsequently moved, by the IRA. The whole mincer business was always guff.

    The Independent Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains supposedly had evidence that Niac was out of the north when the Miami Showband massacre happened, so either they were given false documentation, or this new evidence needs to be cross referenced with theirs.


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    #37
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    People tend to forget the victims behind all the political point scoring. Very messy when the public were mixed up in a conflict were the sides weren't clear or agreed upon.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    alastair wrote: »
    No he wasn’t. He was shot in Louth and his body was buried, then subsequently moved, by the IRA. The whole mincer business was always guff.

    The Independent Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains supposedly had evidence that Niac was out of the north when the Miami Showband massacre happened, so either they were given false documentation, or this new evidence needs to be cross referenced with theirs.

    From what i have read, there is no suggestion that he was involved in the actual attack, only that he had helped to plan it.


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    #39
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Aegir wrote: »
    From what i have read, there is no suggestion that he was involved in the actual attack, only that he had helped to plan it.

    The suggestion is that the ‘clipped English accent Officer’ was him.


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    #40
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Considering their activities over the centuries, from this to the Dublin-monaghan bombings, to the atrocities in Kenya and Aden, in Asia, The middle east and Africa, thats a bit of an understatement. An evil empire based primarily on violence and repression, sowing division wherever it went.


    They're our nearest neighbour and Brexit or not will continue to be.

    Their ancestors did dreadful things in Ireland in the past and in other countries, but I'm really not cool with your type of extremism and I don't think it does you any good. We have more in common with them than you'd like to admit.


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    #41
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Odhinn wrote: »
    There was a provo empire? Fascinating Captain.

    If you believe the late Seamus Mallon, there was and still is a provo empire. Obviously, that does not excuse the Brits terroristic and illegal activities in Ireland. See, it's possible to condemn both, strange to relate.


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    #42
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    alastair wrote: »
    No he wasn’t. He was shot in Louth and his body was buried, then subsequently moved, by the IRA. The whole mincer business was always guff.

    The Independent Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains supposedly had evidence that Niac was out of the north when the Miami Showband massacre happened, so either they were given false documentation, or this new evidence needs to be cross referenced with theirs.


    He was apparently 'on leave'. Easy enough to pretend he was leaving the area - the man was a liar by nature


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    #43
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    If you believe the late Seamus Mallon, there was and still is a provo empire. Obviously, that does not excuse the Brits terroristic and illegal activities in Ireland. See, it's possible to condemn both, strange to relate.

    Whenever you have supporting evidence to back up the claim, do let us all know.


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    #44
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    maccored wrote: »
    Whenever you have supporting evidence to back up the claim, do let us all know.

    Will you get real. Who do you think did the Northern Bank robbery? Diesel laundering? The spying operation on Harcourt Street? Etc, etc, etc.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0927/339292-two-arrested-over-surveillance-of-garda-station/


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    #45
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Will you get real. Who do you think did the Northern Bank robbery? Diesel laundering? The spying operation on Harcourt Street? Etc, etc, etc.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0927/339292-two-arrested-over-surveillance-of-garda-station/

    northern bank robbery? the one the RUC and the brits did?

    Dont think the provos done the diesel laundering - I'd say that's locals on the border. if you dont want smuggling, dont invent a border out of nowhere.

    Harcourt st were dissidents were they not? Have you anything as supporting evidence that there 'still is a provo empire' or is this just all complete and utter bollocks? (nevermind the bank robbery was almost two decades ago)


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    #46
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    maccored wrote: »
    northern bank robbery? the one the RUC and the brits did?

    Can you provide some evidence for this assertion?


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    #47
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Can you provide some evidence for this assertion?

    The only money found linked directly to the robbery, bar the laundered money in cork (which had no links to the provos)> this though IS linked to the RUC. I'd say as a payoff.

    Also, at that particular time, Trimble was to meet SF and was having a hard time convincing his party of doing the same. Then - boom - bank robbery. no need for David to worry anymore.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/money-found-at-belfast-club-from-northern-bank-1.1296929
    Police said the money was thought to have been planted in a bid to divert attention from the crisis engulfing the IRA and Sinn Fein following the seizure of more than £2 million by Irish police investigating an alleged major IRA money laundering operation.

    from the article - as if SF or the provos are going to smuggle themselves into a high security RUC complex. If they could put 50 grand there, they could have put a load of semtex


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    #48
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Only the utterly naive or the West Brit contingent should regard British and unionist activity in Ireland as being beneficial to this country. The Brits have to be worked with but never trusted. The full details of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are needed in public now.


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    #49
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    maccored wrote: »
    The only money found linked directly to the robbery, bar the laundered money in cork (which had no links to the provos)> this though IS linked to the RUC. I'd say as a payoff.

    Also, at that particular time, Trimble was to meet SF and was having a hard time convincing his party of doing the same. Then - boom - bank robbery. no need for David to worry anymore.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/money-found-at-belfast-club-from-northern-bank-1.1296929

    from the article - as if SF or the provos are going to smuggle themselves into a high security RUC complex. If they could put 50 grand there, they could have put a load of semtex


    By your own admission, you are speculating. On your last point, this was 2002-2004. The Provos were in ceasefire, had been for years. They weren't going to put a load of semtex in a high security RUC complex, ffs.

    I admit I can't prove the NBR job was a Provo job, but equally on your side, you can't prove to my satisfaction that it was an RUC job. We both support a united Ireland so let's agree to differ.


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    #50
    horsebox1977
    Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭horsebox1977


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Only the utterly naive or the West Brit contingent should regard British and unionist activity in Ireland as being beneficial to this country. The Brits have to be worked with but never trusted. The full details of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are needed in public now.

    And you won't get these under a FG government.

    They were complicit in it anyway.


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    #51
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Only the utterly naive or the West Brit contingent should regard British and unionist activity in Ireland as being beneficial to this country. The Brits have to be worked with but never trusted.

    Fight your war on our neighbouring island on your own, I'm not interested, and thankfully neither are 90% of the populace.
    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    The full details of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are needed in public now.

    Best ask Senator McDowell, lol, IIRC it was when he was Min for Justice that certain files disappeared. Maybe sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.


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    #52
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    By your own admission, you are speculating. On your last point, this was 2002-2004. The Provos were in ceasefire, had been for years. They weren't going to put a load of semtex in a high security RUC complex, ffs.

    I admit I can't prove the NBR job was a Provo job, but equally on your side, you can't prove to my satisfaction that it was an RUC job. We both support a united Ireland so let's agree to differ.

    they werent going to rob a bank either then going by your theory. I love it that you are happy making claims with no court evidence - or in fact any evidence at all considering how big the robbery was. The only facts out there point to the RUC and therefore the british government. The robbery suited them massively. It didnt really suit SF or the provos as all it did was bring pressure (which again is what the unionists wanted at the time.


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    #53
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Fight your war on our neighbouring island on your own, I'm not interested, and thankfully neither are 90% of the populace.



    Best ask Senator McDowell, lol, IIRC it was when he was Min for Justice that certain files disappeared. Maybe sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

    why? too afraid of what you might find?


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    #54
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    They're our nearest neighbour and Brexit or not will continue to be.

    Their ancestors did dreadful things in Ireland in the past and in other countries, but I'm really not cool with your type of extremism and I don't think it does you any good. We have more in common with them than you'd like to admit.

    The British people are no better or worse than the Irish people. The issue is the actions of representatives of their state and not abiding by their own rules.


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    #55
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    maccored wrote: »
    why? too afraid of what you might find?

    I'm not remotely afraid of what might be found, as none of it would impact on me or my family. My great uncle fought for the British army, my late father was a strong republican who in 1969 in Who's Who in Ireland stated that his ambition was to see a unified Ireland (I think I still have the book), but by 1992 was so disgusted by the actions of the provos that he was writing letters to newspapers condemning then. Sorry if that doesn't fit your view of me.


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    #56
    tdf7187
    Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭tdf7187


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    The British people are no better or worse than the Irish people. The issue is the actions of representatives of their state and not abiding by their own rules.

    Agree completely.


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    #57
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    They're our nearest neighbour and Brexit or not will continue to be.

    Their ancestors did dreadful things in Ireland in the past and in other countries, but I'm really not cool with your type of extremism and I don't think it does you any good. We have more in common with them than you'd like to admit.




    What have i said that's 'extreme', exactly?


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    #58
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    they werent going to rob a bank either then going by your theory. I love it that you are happy making claims with no court evidence - or in fact any evidence at all considering how big the robbery was. The only facts out there point to the RUC and therefore the british government. The robbery suited them massively. It didnt really suit SF or the provos as all it did was bring pressure (which again is what the unionists wanted at the time.

    Money was found in a PSNI social club - presumably after a tip-off. Money was also found in the possession of Sinn Fein people (Tom Hanlon - also convicted of being a provo), and one Real IRA member. An unlikely collaboration for a robbery supposedly by the ‘Brits and RUC’.


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    #59
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    I suppose the Miami Showband victims are not as important as whataboutery to defend their killers.


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    #60
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    alastair wrote: »
    Money was found in a PSNI social club - presumably after a tip-off. Money was also found in the possession of Sinn Fein people (Tom Hanlon - also convicted of being a provo), and one Real IRA member. An unlikely collaboration for a robbery supposedly by the ‘Brits and RUC’.

    didnt that investigation not uncover quite a lot of money laundering of all persuasions? One person linked to the IRA (which he only got three years for) isnt exactly definitive proof.


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    #61
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    maccored wrote: »
    didnt that investigation not uncover quite a lot of money laundering of all persuasions? One person linked to the IRA (which he only got three years for) isnt exactly definitive proof.

    Not all persuasions. The bulk in the hands of republicans, and a rather pat tip-off about a bag’s worth left in a locker in a retired PSNI sports club, but with no link to anyone in particular. Certainly any neutral observer at the time concluded it was a robbery by one specific persuasion.


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