Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Padre_Pio

Clicked into part 1 of this thread, took a few seconds to realise, the comments from a year ago are exactly the same.

Nothing has changed.

davedanon

declanflynn wrote: »

Who normally wins in those sort of skirmishes?

If they were actually real, and not just fairy stories?

briany

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

More people voted for pro second referendum parties than voted for pro Brexit parties.

And yet the pro-Brexit Conservatives still have a Commons majority, last I checked. As I said, if the pro-EU sentiment is concentrated only in certain areas, then it doesn't matter.

davedanon

What does 'London turning into Leicester' mean?

Seth Brundle

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Clicked into part 1 of this thread, took a few seconds to realise, the comments from a year ago are exactly the same.

Nothing has changed.

I beg to differ. The UK has finally left the EU which is quite a change (well most of it has left but NI is still kinda in it).
And the UK government has presided over the deaths of many thousands of its citizens as a result of avoidable incompetence (but apparently it’s not their fault)

Other than that, it’s still the same. The don’t know what they want but you can be sure that they don’t want whatever is suggested.

ancapailldorcha

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I beg to differ. The UK has finally left the EU which is quite a change (well most of it has left but NI is still kinda in it).
And the UK government has presided over the deaths of many thousands of its citizens as a result of avoidable incompetence (but apparently it’s not their fault)

Other than that, it’s still the same. The don’t know what they want but you can be sure that they don’t want whatever is suggested.

The UK is effectively still in the single market and customs union so while there has been a de jure change with them formally exiting the EU, they are a de facto part of much of it until the year's end.

But yes, the government continues to play silly games and Brexiters treat us to the same talking points we've been getting for literally years now such that you'd have to wonder why they never got Darren Grimes to just design a chatbot or something.

Peregrinus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The UK is effectively still in the single market and customs union so while there has been a de jure change with them formally exiting the EU, they are a de facto part of much of it until the year's end.

Only if you buy into the Brexiter view that being in the EU consists entirely in complying with EU law and being affected by EU policy.

If you think that being in the EU also involves making EU law, and shaping EU policy, then the UK has already left. They no longer have a seat at the table.

ambro25

Reports today that the UK has nominated Liam 'easiest deal in history' Fox for directorship of the WTO.

Who said satire was dead? :pac:

ohnonotgmail

ambro25 wrote: »

Reports today that the UK has nominated Liam 'easiest deal in history' Fox for directorship of the WTO.

Who said satire was dead? :pac:

that is just a total pisstake

Donald Trump

You can only laugh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/brexit-backer-s-land-rover-tribute-may-get-built-in-france?utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Brexit-backing billionaire Jim Ratcliffe is in talks to build his Grenadier off-road vehicle, a paean to Britain’s adventurous spirit, in France.

Ratcliffe’s Ineos Group on Tuesday said it’s in detailed discussions with Daimler AG to take over the plant in Moselle, near the German border, the automaker has been making Smart compact cars.


....

Producing it in France would upend an existing plan to build the Grenadier in Wales, with parts coming from a factory in Portugal. Those efforts, now on hold, were slowed by the Covid-19 outbreak, Tennant said.

davedanon

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can only laugh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/brexit-backer-s-land-rover-tribute-may-get-built-in-france?utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Taking Back Control.

ancapailldorcha

One advantage of the Conservative victory of 2019 is that we'll finally be getting on with this.

Wales voted for Brexit. This isn't good for them but there's only so many times I can be called a remoaner libtard and still have a capacity for sympathy with these people.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can only laugh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/brexit-backer-s-land-rover-tribute-may-get-built-in-france?utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Like that, everything will be blamed on Covid-19.

ambro25

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can only laugh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/brexit-backer-s-land-rover-tribute-may-get-built-in-france?utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

My neck of the woods, that.

It's just opportunistically-good business sense from Ratcliffe, of course well-removed from any ideological influence surrounding Brexit: Mercedes announced the forthcoming closure of that plant last weekend, with at least 1500 jobs going, in the local press.

I remember doing a double-take at the front page spread about it (Le Républicain Lorrain, was Saturday or Sunday) in the bakers, because I thought that Smart were still doing good business these days.

It's a modern plant, well equipped, with highly-skilled staff, and superbly located from an EU logistical point of view, but too small-scale to be repurposed into making other mass-market vehicles for the Daimler group.

And it must be going for a song, to spare Daimler the horrors of French-style redundancies and 'social plans'.

The Brexit angle to this story, is really just still more Schadenfreude (Cassandrafreude, I saw recently - like it!) about jobs not being created in the UK.

Donald Trump

ambro25 wrote: »

It's just opportunistically-good business sense from Ratcliffe, of course well-removed from any ideological influence surrounding Brexit: Mercedes announced the forthcoming closure of that plant last weekend, with at least 1500 jobs going, in the local press.

ambro25 wrote: »

The Brexit angle to this story, is really just still more Schadenfreude (Cassandrafreude, I saw recently - like it!) about jobs not being created in the UK.

Not really. The Brexit angle is the hypocritical irony of a man who backed what was basically a jingoistic nationalistic campaign, whose end result would not make "good business sense" to the common people, turns around and makes his decision on what might make him more money?


Jingoistic nonsense about taking back control and not being accountable to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels etc. and and soon as it affects his own wallet, he suddenly doesn't mind locating his business where it will be equally as much "under Brussels rule" as the UK was.


It was fine for the common person to make a decision that would negatively impact them, but when it comes to himself, he decides not to do it.... the importance of "sovereignty" seemed to go out the window fairly quickly when it was himself losing out didn't it?

ohnonotgmail

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can only laugh

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/brexit-backer-s-land-rover-tribute-may-get-built-in-france?utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic

Looks more like a GWagen than a defender.

ambro25

Donald Trump wrote: »

Not really. The Brexit angle is the hypocritical irony of a man who backed what was basically a jingoistic nationalistic campaign, whose end result would not make "good business sense" to the common people, turns around and makes his decision on what might make him more money?

Jingoistic nonsense about taking back control and not being accountable to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels etc. and and soon as it affects his own wallet, he suddenly doesn't mind locating his business where it will be equally as much "under Brussels rule" as the UK was.

It was fine for the common person to make a decision that would negatively impact them, but when it comes to himself, he decides not to do it.... the importance of "sovereignty" seemed to go out the window fairly quickly when it was himself losing out didn't it?

Yes really: 4+ years down the line from the referendum, and with a freighter-load of Brexiteers far more influential than Ratcliffe in pushing and bringing Brexit about all piling on the exact same bandwagon of feathering their EU27 nest the entire time, this is much more of a level business decision than most of the others by other prominent Brexiteers.

There is nothing going or built in the UK yet for that Landy tribute thing, there is a modern factory ready-to-go but for the car-specific tooling going for a song in France, Brexit or no Brexit why on earth would Ratcliffe choose to build a brand new factory in the UK instead and double or triple his CAPEX?

Bit of a difference relative to Dyson shifting most of his existing UK business to Singapore, Rees-Mogg shifting much of his UK-domiciled assets of his fund management business to Dublin <etc., there's oodles more>

You can certainly cast stones at him over the Brexit push, plus the £-ms which he must have ready-invested into crash-capitalistic hedges maturing end 2020, but this particular one, not so much. IMHO.

Donald Trump

ambro25 wrote: »

Yes really: 4+ years down the line from the referendum, and with a freighter-load of Brexiteers far more influential than Ratcliffe in pushing and bringing Brexit about all piling on the exact same bandwagon of feathering their EU27 nest the entire time, this is much more of a level business decision than most of the others by other prominent Brexiteers.

There is nothing going or built in the UK yet for that Landy tribute thing, there is a modern factory ready-to-go but for the car-specific tooling going for a song in France, Brexit or no Brexit why on earth would Ratcliffe choose to build a brand new factory in the UK instead and double or triple his CAPEX?

Bit of a difference relative to Dyson shifting most of his existing UK business to Singapore, Rees-Mogg shifting much of his UK-domiciled assets of his fund management business to Dublin <etc., there's oodles more>

You can certainly cast stones at him over the Brexit push, plus the £-ms which he must have ready-invested into crash-capitalistic hedges maturing end 2020, but this particular one, not so much. IMHO.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Whataboutery referring to other people being more influential means nothing.


He was always safe in the knowledge that he could just as easily take personal advantage of what the EU had to offer even if the UK was outside of it. The same could not be said of the common person who was convinced to take a hit to regain "sovereignty".


And so it has come to pass - "do as I say, not as I do".

ambro25

Donald Trump wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree. Whataboutery referring to other people being more influential means nothing.

He was always safe in the knowledge that he could just as easily take personal advantage of what the EU had to offer even if the UK was outside of it. The same could not be said of the common person who was convinced to take a hit to regain "sovereignty".

And so it ha come to pass - "do as I say, not as I do".

Happy to agree to disagree, particularly as you seem to be ranting or venting in the above.

The Leave-voting (then Tory-voting) common person did what they were told, as usual, and they're getting exactly that, which those who told them intended to give to them, as usual.

It's not exclusive to Brexit at all, by far; indeed it's as old as politics.

davedanon

Chris Grey...

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/07/brexit-britains-place-in-world.html


On Britain's place in the world. Having 'lost' an empire, they had found a role - as a mid-sized nation but part of a group large enough to throw its weight around in the world - but that evidently wasn't enough, and now Britain is going it alone, at possibly the very worst time. Sandwiched in between much bigger opponents, in the EU, China & US, and finding it very difficult to navigate a course. Negotiate/deal with one bloc, and they risk upsetting/offending another. Even worse, their own union looks doomed in the long run. Scottish independence isn't going away, and Britain's own policies have made Irish re-unification much more likely. But this is only my own synopsis. Read the piece. He is, and always has been, consistently excellent.

Donald Trump

ambro25 wrote: »

Happy to agree to disagree, particularly as you seem to be ranting or venting in the above.

The Leave-voting (then Tory-voting) common person did what they were told, as usual, and they're getting exactly that, which those who told them intended to give to them, as usual.

It's not exclusive to Brexit at all, by far; indeed it's as old as politics.

It's a bit strange that you can't understand that people might point out the hypocrisy of a strong Brexit backer voluntarily deciding to change his mind and set up a factory inside the EU instead of a post-Brexit UK.


Anyway, for whatever reason, you think it's not valid to point that simple fact out. We won't mention it again as it seems to upset you!

ambro25

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's a bit strange that you can't understand that people might point out the hypocrisy of a strong Brexit backer voluntarily deciding to change his mind and set up a factory inside the EU instead of a post-Brexit UK.

Anyway, for whatever reason, you think it's not valid to point that simple fact out. We won't mention it again as it seems to upset you!

Ah, so you're not agreeing to disagreeing, in the end.

Can you explain to me, how have I "failed to understand" your point about Ratcliffe being a hypocrite, and why I think it is "not a valid point"?

I'm not upset in the least, here. Just bemused. Take all the time you need.

gmisk

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/12/revealed-dominic-cummings-firm-paid-vote-leaves-ai-firm-260000&ved=2ahUKEwiIjOCm98nqAhW3QRUIHa4fAokQFjAMegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw06-fzpl0Aa1V4cA-dd_yAs&ampcf=1

Nothing to see here....move along.....brexit means brexit etc etc

Cummings and the like have played the voters in the UK like a fiddle.

Leroy42

Seems the government are finally starting to come clear about the real costs of Brexit, with their latest advertising blitz, aimed at getting people ready for end of transition pointing out that

Brexit era brings rise in holiday insurance costs

Of course not only an increase in costs, but many insurers will not cover pre-existing conditions (which the E111 does) and for many the increased costs is actually the easier problem to solve.

But it goes into roaming charges, pet passports, increased border checks and requirements and border (sufficient cash, return journey etc).

All of this was of course previously laughed off as Project Fear.

The government is launching an information campaign with warnings about passports, travel insurance, mobile phone charges and travelling with pets. The initiative, “The UK’s new start: let’s get going”, features guidance for visiting the EU from January 1. Much of the information is aimed at raising awareness of higher costs, with travel insurance premiums expected to rise once eligibility for free healthcare in EU countries ends.

The public will be urged to check for mobile phone roaming charges in the EU and told that they will need six months of validity on their passport to travel. Pet owners will be advised to give vets four months’ notice before trying to take an animal to Europe.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-era-brings-rise-in-holiday-insurance-costs-lpsd3rwl2

Here is Ian Dunt's take on it. https://politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/07/13/brexit-ad-campaign-s-new-start-is-a-trip-to-the-past

timetogo1

Who thinks up these slogans?

"Britain's new start, let's get going" - and here are all the new issues you need to worry about if you want to go anywhere.

Last week we had "Eat out to help out".

Is somebody trolling over there?

Donald Trump

ambro25 wrote: »

Ah, so you're not agreeing to disagreeing, in the end.

Can you explain to me, how have I "failed to understand" your point about Ratcliffe being a hypocrite, and why I think it is "not a valid point"?

I'm not upset in the least, here. Just bemused. Take all the time you need.

Well you see, you said this.

ambro25 wrote: »

The Brexit angle to this story, is really just still more Schadenfreude (Cassandrafreude, I saw recently - like it!) about jobs not being created in the UK.

The Brexit angle is simple. This man backed Brexit to take the UK out of the EU. Now he is choosing to create jobs, previously expected to be in Wales, in France instead. So they have a story about him and the move and describe him as a "Brexit backer".



You see, the reason they mention that he backed Brexit is because he actually did back Brexit.



I don't know what you are finding difficult about that to be honest.

ancapailldorcha

Brexit era brings rise in holiday insurance costs.

Like, if there's no sentence I've seen that so wholly and succinctly encapsulates Brexit as this one.

So many of the people who voted for it just do not care about anyone else. To vote for it was the ultimate act of selfish indulgence. If you were stuck in some dead end, economically abandoned sh*thole town in Wales, the north of England or the coast then fair enough but it's the middle classes who voted for it who I tend to hold in contempt. This is reflected in some of the news. Screw anyone losing their job or their business but the second the EU ask for a few quid for a travel visa or insurance costs rise as in the above statement then it becomes important. Witness the obscene obsession with garden centres reopening during the pandemic. We effectively have a demographic or ageing, white conservative voters in the wealthy southeast of England running the country. Of course, this was not enough for them so they've had to throw the whole country into an artificial economic catastrophe because of their racism, xenophobia and their contempt for anyone they think is too different.

The sovereignty case has been blown to bits. How is being subjected to pressure from the US and China superior to wielding disproportionate control over the world's largest and most lucrative trading bloc incorporating over half of the G7?

And immigration? Most immigrants were from outside the EU in the years leading up to the referendum. So tell me, why was that the case? Closing the door to mainly young migrants from white, traditionally Christian countries while letting in more people from Asia, Africa, Australasia and the Americas. Why is there no uproar about that?

So f*ck these people. They're happy for people to lose their jobs and businesses over Brexit but they second they see a slight increase in their insurance premiums or a visa cost. That just exemplifies their selfishness, avarice and the contempt in which they hold the rest of the country.

I'm aware that plenty of people in the north voted for the Tories in 2019 and for Brexit. I lived there. They have a right to be angry. I don't think they've chosen a good outlet for their rage but I do think that it is wholly justified. They voted Labour for decades and the party in the last few years has been taken over by toxic London lefties and socialists who bleat on and on about corporation tax, climate change and identity politics.

davedanon

Jesus, from Dunt's post, Bloomberg's figures show that by 2030, UK trade with the EU, while it will be nearly halved, will still be more than twice that with the US, China, India, Japan, Australia & NZ combined.

davedanon

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Like, if there's no sentence I've seen that so wholly and succinctly encapsulates Brexit as this one.

So many of the people who voted for it just do not care about anyone else. To vote for it was the ultimate act of selfish indulgence. If you were stuck in some dead end, economically abandoned sh*thole town in Wales, the north of England or the coast then fair enough but it's the middle classes who voted for it who I tend to hold in contempt. This is reflected in some of the news. Screw anyone losing their job or their business but the second the EU ask for a few quid for a travel visa or insurance costs rise as in the above statement then it becomes important. Witness the obscene obsession with garden centres reopening during the pandemic. We effectively have a demographic or ageing, white conservative voters in the wealthy southeast of England running the country. Of course, this was not enough for them so they've had to throw the whole country into an artificial economic catastrophe because of their racism, xenophobia and their contempt for anyone they think is too different.

The sovereignty case has been blown to bits. How is being subjected to pressure from the US and China superior to wielding disproportionate control over the world's largest and most lucrative trading bloc incorporating over half of the G7?

And immigration? Most immigrants were from outside the EU in the years leading up to the referendum. So tell me, why was that the case? Closing the door to mainly young migrants from white, traditionally Christian countries while letting in more people from Asia, Africa, Australasia and the Americas. Why is there no uproar about that?

So f*ck these people. They're happy for people to lose their jobs and businesses over Brexit but they second they see a slight increase in their insurance premiums or a visa cost. That just exemplifies their selfishness, avarice and the contempt in which they hold the rest of the country.

I'm aware that plenty of people in the north voted for the Tories in 2019 and for Brexit. I lived there. They have a right to be angry. I don't think they've chosen a good outlet for their rage but I do think that it is wholly justified. They voted Labour for decades and the party in the last few years has been taken over by toxic London lefties and socialists who bleat on and on about corporation tax, climate change and identity politics.

Yes, perfectly understandable that they preferred to vote for a gang of incompetent Tory thugs who had already been running the country into the ground for a decade. They hardly had any other option. Just think of the mess Labour would have made of things.

Padre_Pio

davedanon wrote: »

Yes, perfectly understandable that they preferred to vote for a gang of incompetent Tory thugs who had already been running the country into the ground for a decade. They hardly had any other option. Just think of the mess Labour would have made of things.

I don't agree with the lesser of two evils argument.

The Tories got an overwhelming majority, and Boris was basically unopposed for leadership of the party.
People knew who and what they were voting for.

Brexit was 4 years ago and people still back it. There has been no large scale public outcry to reverse the vote, in spite of the shambles of the last 4 years.
Leave them at it. It's an absolute sh*t show, but at least it's their sh*t show.
I hope Irish exporters are ramping up efforts to export to the Continent.