Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

RobMc59

fash wrote: »

The word is "delusions"

Unfortunately for you you`re wrong fash.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Illusions%20of%20grandeur

Dytalus

RobMc59 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you you`re wrong fash.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Illusions%20of%20grandeur

Ah yes, that bastion of accurately recorded knowledge....urban dictionary.

The phrase very much is delusions of grandeur.

Delusions of grandeur are one of the more common ones. It’s when you believe that you have more power, wealth, smarts, or other grand traits than is true. Some people mistakenly call it “illusions” of grandeur.

RobMc59

Dytalus wrote: »

Ah yes, that bastion of accurately recorded knowledge....urban dictionary.

The phrase very much is delusions of grandeur.

A link to a discredited "hypochondriacs" website...You could`nt make it up! :pac:

ohnonotgmail

RobMc59 wrote: »

A link to a discredited "hypochondriacs" website...You could`nt make it up! :pac:

did you even bother to read the link you posted yourself? it is delusions of grandeur not illusions of grandeur.

from your link:

Stop. There is no such thing of having Illusions of Grandeur, because an Illusion means that you're seeing something that is actually real, but is such that is easily misinterpreted (like any numerous optical illusions- Think of looking at a mirror that makes you look super tall at a circus or fair)

Delusions of Grandeur however is when a person believes something that isn't true, and is usually grand... like them being the savior of the world, a secret agent, or a successful business man or woman, etc.

fash

RobMc59 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you you`re wrong fash.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Illusions%20of%20grandeur

I'm not sure if I'm more embarrassed on your behalf by your brexitism or by your lack of mastery of the English language. I'm leaning towards your brexitism. Question open to the crowd- what do you guys think?

ohnonotgmail

fash wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm more embarrassed on your behalf by your brexitism or by your lack of mastery of the English language. I'm leaning towards your brexitism. Question open to the crowd- what do you guys think?

too hard to call.

Dytalus

RobMc59 wrote: »

A link to a discredited "hypochondriacs" website...You could`nt make it up! :pac:

Would you like some other sources.

Back to the relevant topic:
I'm not entirely sure who you were claiming at 'illusions of grandeur', but based on context I assume you were accusing Ireland for imagining the US would support us over the UK.

Leaving aside that they have already done exactly that, for trade purposes it's not a question of Ireland vs UK. It's the EU vs the UK, and the EU is the much larger and wealthier market.

Granted, the US sees the EU has a competitor in the trading markets more than anything. It's not impossible they'd try to use the UK to weaken the EU's trading powers, but they have no real motivation to the give the UK a trade deal which is favourable to the UK. The US is much larger, much wealthier, and the UK has comparatively little to give - the USA would hold most of the cards in any negotiation and would (as all national powers are) be seeking to enrich themselves as much as possible-at the expense of the UK if necessary.

RobMc59

fash wrote: »

I'm not sure if I'm more embarrassed on your behalf by your brexitism or by your lack of mastery of the English language. I'm leaning towards your brexitism. Question open to the crowd- what do you guys think?

I`m not a brexiteer and you calling for backup by the `guys`is cringeworthy.

Leroy42

Its not either or. By signing the WA the UK have agreed to serious responsibilities and if rhey6look to break them the US will be faced with siding with a legimate international operator in the guise of the EU or siding with the UK.

Now, it is not beyond the realms of the imagination to think that the US will see the UK position as a way to help them weaken the EU. But in that case they are going to extort quite a price from the UK for that backing.

So we are right back to the cost of Brexit and the lie that is Taking Back Control.

There is no way to look at the UKs position, at least in the short (and given how long it is taking them to make any headway with either the EU or US would point to medium term) as anything other than significantly weakened.

Is much happening regarding the Northern Ireland situation? It's extremely complicated and only a few months away. I hope the UK doesn't renege on its first international agreement as a seemingly sovereign state.

ambro25

Leroy42 wrote: »

(...)

There is no way to look at the UKs position, at least in the short (and given how long it is taking them to make any headway with either the EU or US would point to medium term) as anything other than significantly weakened.

Relative to the US, I see the UK as already geopolitically snookered, considering the upcoming presidential election this November:

either Trump gets back in, in which case either the UK gets a highly-disadvantageous FTA replete with downgraded food standards, unprotected public markets, biased arbitration clauses <etc.>, or no FTA at all if the US is intent on driving the UK economy down and faster to asset-strip it better and earlier ;

or Biden gets in, in which case a return of US politics towards the centre together with a purge of Russian influence can be expected to result in flexing geopolitical muscles against a rogue-ish UK, particularly where its behaviour risks causing, or amplifying, economic or systemic shocks (2008 is not so long ago, that many would have forgotten the role of the City in it)

biko

declanflynn wrote: »

3. Japan (playing hardball already)

Indeed

Japan has given the UK just six weeks to strike a post-Brexit deal, putting Boris Johnson’s government under pressure to agree one of the fastest trade negotiations in history — and Britain’s first in more than 40 years.
https://www.ft.com/content/a70e644e-f585-4d20-8551-9e3972004f4f

Leroy42

And they will agree to it, what option do they have? They need a win, they need to show that Brexit is worth it.

It will be announced with great fanfare and lots of 'Remoaners are proved wrong' type headlines. The details of the deal won't de discussed, and of course the HoC don't even get to have a say in it.

It will then be used to 'prove' that the UK are willing to make deal s, but the EU are trying to punish the UK.

Of course, we know that whatever deal it is it cannot be any better than the deal they already have as part of the EU, since both Japan and the EU agreeed that any future deals must be offered to the other party.

Donald Trump

biko wrote: »

Indeed

Japan has given the UK just six weeks to strike a post-Brexit deal, putting Boris Johnson’s government under pressure to agree one of the fastest trade negotiations in history — and Britain’s first in more than 40 years.
https://www.ft.com/content/a70e644e-f585-4d20-8551-9e3972004f4f

That article is from 22nd June!

“To avoid a gap in January, we must pass this in the autumn session of the Diet [the Japanese parliament],” he told the Financial Times. “That means we must complete negotiations by the end of July.”

They have until tonight

davedanon

Chris Grey.

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/07/the-long-slow-grind-continues.html

"Yet, accepting that there are always differences of interpretation, truth does have its own validity and each and every truth claim made by Brexiters is gradually being demolished. Eighteen months was not “absolutely ample” to do a deal, German car makers didn’t have the influence it was claimed they would, trade deals haven’t all been rolled over, the European Medical Agency and European Banking Authority didn’t stay in the UK (£), Turkey isn’t joining the EU, GATT Article XXIV doesn’t have the meaning they claimed it did, the Irish border isn’t unaffected by Brexit, and the technological solutions to it do not, at least as yet, exist. In fact, I can’t think of a single claim made by the Brexiters that has so far proved true. Again, it’s only at this point, when the limitations of post-truth politics become unavoidable, that Brexit becomes cast as the ‘politics of faith’."

CelticRambler

biko wrote: »

Japan has given the UK just six weeks to strike a post-Brexit deal ...

Donald Trump beat me to it, but those six weeks were to run until the "end of July"

We're there; where's the deal?

joeguevara

CelticRambler wrote: »

Donald Trump beat me to it, but those six weeks were to run until the "end of July"

We're there; where's the deal?

There is wiggle room to go into August but not much more. Best UK can hope for is similar to what is there for EU already (but imo doubtful as Japan knows it has UK over a barrel) and worst is WTO. So whats the point of Brexit?

https://www.export.org.uk/news/519443/UK-close-to-first-post-Brexit-trade-deal-with-Japan--but-agreement-may-resemble-more-of-the-same.htm

Its fairly close to a deal, but only on the obvious things. Agriculture and elec are the sticking points it seems. But digital seems to be getting a slightly better deal.

trashcan

RobMc59 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you you`re wrong fash.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Illusions%20of%20grandeur

Rob, there's a phrase we have in Dublin, don't know if you're familiar with it - scarlet for ya !:p

davedanon

trashcan wrote: »

Rob, there's a phrase we have in Dublin, don't know if you're familiar with it - scarlet for ya !:p

One of many casualties of Brexit: a sense of shame.

Edit: not directed at Rob personally. It was intended as a generalised comment.

Eric Cartman

Donald Trump wrote: »

That article is from 22nd June!





They have until tonight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2dhD9zR6hk

davedanon

Headline in the Torygraph today:

"Our post-Brexit state-aid regime is NONE OF BRUSSELS' BUSINESS!!"

Caps and !s mine.

The self-delusion with these people is staggering.

RobMc59

trashcan wrote: »

Rob, there's a phrase we have in Dublin, don't know if you're familiar with it - scarlet for ya !:p

I'm not familiar with it,but fair play it's a good one !

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm not a brexiteer and do care about Ireland.

Well, you care about Unionism and the maintenance of the Union as it pertains to Ireland. You think anything that disagrees with that idea is RABID SF/IRA REPUBLICANISM.

So, care is a bit much.

BonnieSituation

davedanon wrote: »

Headline in the Torygraph today:

"Our post-Brexit state-aid regime is NONE OF BRUSSELS' BUSINESS!!"

Caps and !s mine.

The self-delusion with these people is staggering.

Eh, the self-illusion... but yeah, it is.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, you care about Unionism and the maintenance of the Union as it pertains to Ireland. You think anything that disagrees with that idea is RABID SF/IRA REPUBLICANISM.

So, care is a bit much.

Wanting the UK to remain united doesn't mean I don't care about Ireland.If I didn't care would I dispute the point when it's levelled at me?The same goes for being labelled a brexiteer,which I've never been.I live in hope a deal can be agreed which suits everyone.

timetogo1

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Eh, the self-illusion... but yeah, it is.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-delusion

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You think anything that disagrees with that idea is RABID SF/IRA REPUBLICANISM.

We have a saying in England Bonnie.

If the cap fits, wear it.

ExMachina1000

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/second-shock-of-brexit-may-be-too-much-for-ireland-to-cope-with-coveney-told-1.4317097

Panic and realisation has began to set in

First Up

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Panic and realisation has began to set in

The potential impact of Brexit has been recognised in Ireland and across the EU since the day after the referendum.

If you want to see panic and realisation I recommend Whitehall.

Junkyard Tom

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/second-shock-of-brexit-may-be-too-much-for-ireland-to-cope-with-coveney-told-1.4317097

Panic and realisation has began to set in

Yet somehow, it seems, all is calm at the epicentre of where the earthquake will strike in Britain.