Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

timetogo1

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yet somehow, it seems, all is calm at the epicentre of where the earthquake will strike in Britain.

I think its the boiling frog affect in Britain. Various aspects of the UK have deteriorated since 2016 but the Brexiters are oblivious. Now they have an extra scapegoat in Covid and the UK government will keep talking about how its world beating and a reasonable propotion of the electorate will swallow it. Sure it seemed to work for America. Say "we're number 1" enough and the populous begin to believe it.

Who knows whatll happen after Jan, because they still don't have a deal.

ExMachina1000

First Up wrote: »

The potential impact of Brexit has been recognised in Ireland and across the EU since the day after the referendum.

If you want to see panic and realisation I recommend Whitehall.

The coronavirus virus and the unfolding economic shock wasn't a factor though. Now it is and its huge. Unprecedented

ExMachina1000

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yet somehow, it seems, all is calm at the epicentre of where the earthquake will strike in Britain.

I don't care about the brits. They can do as they please and deal with the consequences afterwards. I care about Ireland and the countries future prosperity.

The yeah but look over at them attitude wont help

First Up

ExMachina1000 wrote:

The coronavirus virus and the unfolding economic shock wasn't a factor though. Now it is and its huge. Unprecedented

Ireland has taken a realistic approach to both Brexit and the virus from the start.

ExMachina1000

First Up wrote: »

Ireland has taken a realistic approach to both Brexit and the virus from the start.

Did you see the internal government memo?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/second-shock-of-brexit-may-be-too-much-for-ireland-to-cope-with-coveney-told-1.4317097

ExMachina1000

timetogo1 wrote: »

Good job we're in the EU.

Yeah for sure

First Up

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Did you see the internal government memo?

Yes, its a good example of a realistic appraisal of the situation.

ExMachina1000

First Up wrote: »

Yes, its a good example of a realistic appraisal of the situation.

It is. And it's a window into the situation we are really in. Varadkar has been made enemy number 1 by pro brexit media from his time at the top. EU fanboy etc.

Ireland is super reliant on a good outcome. Cant be understated enough

First Up

ExMachina1000 wrote:

Ireland is super reliant on a good outcome. Cant be understated enough

I think you mean overstated but what the UK brexit media say is a matter of supreme indifference to anyone in the EU.

Donald Trump

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/second-shock-of-brexit-may-be-too-much-for-ireland-to-cope-with-coveney-told-1.4317097

Panic and realisation has began to set in

I don't think so. In fairness to the Irish politicians or the civil servants or whoever was involved, they recognised some important issues straight away and got the EU on board early on in relation to those concerns long before the UK realised they might be problems that need actual solving rather than being faffed away (e.g. Northern Ireland).

Leroy42

It is right that the Irish government should be concerned, and increasingly so due to the UKs apparent desire to crash out.

However, one should never give in to bullies, which is exactly how the UK have treated Ireland in all of this.

That the UK, or more specifically England, are putting both their own but also our futures in doubt should not be forgotten.

The fact that the UK are still in talks, despite all the deadlines and demands, shows they know the importance of a deal but cannot bring themselves to admit it publicly. So are would rather create chaos and financial harm than work together.

Not sure if you have ever had the experience of an alcoholic friend or family member, but there comes a point where the solution can only come when they are ready. UK is currently that person.

Leroy42

It is right that the Irish government should be concerned, and increasingly so due to the UKs apparent desire to crash out.

However, one should never give in to bullies, which is exactly how the UK have treated Ireland in all of this.

That the UK, or more specifically England, are putting both their own but also our futures in doubt should not be forgotten.

The fact that the UK are still in talks, despite all the deadlines and demands, shows they know the importance of a deal but cannot bring themselves to admit it publicly. So are would rather create chaos and financial harm than work together.

Not sure if you have ever had the experience of an alcoholic friend or family member, but there comes a point where the solution can only come when they are ready. UK is currently that person.

O'Neill

timetogo1 wrote: »

I think its the boiling frog affect in Britain. Various aspects of the UK have deteriorated since 2016 but the Brexiters are oblivious. Now they have an extra scapegoat in Covid and the UK government will keep talking about how its world beating and a reasonable propotion of the electorate will swallow it. Sure it seemed to work for America. Say "we're number 1" enough and the populous begin to believe it.

Who knows whatll happen after Jan, because they still don't have a deal.

Dido Harding

RobMc59

Donald Trump wrote: »

I don't think so. In fairness to the Irish politicians or the civil servants or whoever was involved, they recognised some important issues straight away and got the EU on board early on in relation to those concerns long before the UK realised they might be problems that need actual solving rather than being faffed away (e.g. Northern Ireland).

Its been suggested the UK and France sort out an agreement regarding eurotunnel.I wonder if a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK can be thrashed out to safeguard current arrangements(dairy, livestock etc).I believe there is a special case for this as after all, both countries exist on the same islands and any disruption in dealings between them isn't good for anyone.

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

Its been suggested the UK and France sort out an agreement regarding eurotunnel.I wonder if a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK can be thrashed out to safeguard current arrangements(dairy, livestock etc).I believe there is a special case for this as after all, both countries exist on the same islands and any disruption in dealings between them isn't good for anyone.

That's all well and good, but any such agreements would need to not affect dealings between the EU country and other EU states.


For example, a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK on livestock would be far less useful to Ireland should it place restrictions on other livestock being shipped to the EU

J Mysterio

RobMc59 wrote: »

Its been suggested the UK and France sort out an agreement regarding eurotunnel.I wonder if a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK can be thrashed out to safeguard current arrangements(dairy, livestock etc).I believe there is a special case for this as after all, both countries exist on the same islands and any disruption in dealings between them isn't good for anyone.

Whatever about the Eurotunnel, there is no prospect on bilateral agreement between UK/ Ireland on livestock, other than what has already been agreed vis a vis the North. That has all been settled - sanitary standards and so forth.

davedanon

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/second-shock-of-brexit-may-be-too-much-for-ireland-to-cope-with-coveney-told-1.4317097

Panic and realisation has began to set in

'Begun'.

And fraudulent. The article says no such thing.

ExMachina1000

davedanon wrote: »

'Begun'.

And fraudulent. The article says no such thing.

What does it say?

Apart from a no deal Brexit on top of an already covid destroyed economy not being able to cope. Its game over

davedanon

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

What does it say?

Apart from a no deal Brexit on top of an already covid destroyed economy not being able to cope. Its game over

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

Its been suggested the UK and France sort out an agreement regarding eurotunnel.

Suggested by whom?
The UK don't want to follow EU standards and rules but want EU members ignore them just to suit their own madness?

RobMc59 wrote: »

I wonder if a bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK can be thrashed out to safeguard current arrangements(dairy, livestock etc).

...and bypass any EU rules?

RobMc59 wrote: »

I believe there is a special case for this as after all, both countries exist on the same islands and any disruption in dealings between them isn't good for anyone.

...so what was the benefit to removing themselves from the EU again?
This madness is all the UK's doing but it's like everyone else is expected to bend over and facilitate them.

ExMachina1000

davedanon wrote: »

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Denial of reality.

Ongoing coronavirus economic shock added with a no deal Brexit second shock. Its very real and possible

davedanon

First it's GAME OVER, now it's 'real and possible'.

Make your mind up.

ExMachina1000

davedanon wrote: »

First it's GAME OVER, now it's 'real and possible'.

Make your mind up.

It's not up to me. I'm not pretending that there isn't serious financial hardship coming. It's not my fault either

Do you believe that all is well?

davedanon

Of course not. But your contention seems to be that Ireland alone is doomed because of Brexit & Covid. Which is nonsense.

ExMachina1000

davedanon wrote: »

Of course not. But your contention seems to be that Ireland alone is doomed because of Brexit & Covid. Which is nonsense.

Not literally doomed obviously. We wont die. The country wont turn Venezuelan overnight.

Economically speaking let's just say the good times of full employment, budget surpluses, tax cuts, increased spending etc are done.

EU wide tax levy on bug6 tech will also bite Ireland.
Its gloomy all over

Junkyard Tom

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I don't care about the brits.

I feel bad for the British people, especially the ones who fell for the '£350m a week for the NHS' spiel as that appealed to people's good nature. Hopefully when this all blows over the liars, frauds and bluffers will be exposed and there'll be a new political paradigm.

davedanon

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Its gloomy all over

Exactly. Not just us.

Padre_Pio

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I feel bad for the British people, especially the ones who fell for the '£350m a week for the NHS' spiel as that appealed to people's good nature. Hopefully when this all blows over the liars, frauds and bluffers will be exposed and there'll be a new political paradigm.

Not a chance.

Anyone who had a hand in Brexit will vanish out of public spotlight with no repercussions.

ExMachina1000

davedanon wrote: »

Exactly. Not just us.

Ireland will be most affected by Brexit. Italy and Spain got 130 billion in grants between them while MM came back to Ireland with an increased eu budget bill of 16 billion euro.

We will be in bad shape for a long time to come

Seth Brundle

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Ireland will be most affected Brexit. Italy and Spain got 130 billion in grants between them while MM came back to Ireland with an increased eu budget bill of 16 billion euro.

We will be in bad shape for a long time to come

Italy and Spain got 130 billion in grants but not for Brexit. You're comparing different things. The EU has not given us money to assist us from Brexit because we don't know what will happen yet. :rolleyes: