Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

RobMc59

Leroy42 wrote: »

This is what you posted as well;

"One third of the worlds population make up the Commonwealth so the potential of a trading alliance would be beneficial to its members imo".

My reading of that is that you think the Commonwealth is a potential positive from Brexit.

All I am asking is why you think that. On what basis do you think it will be better than EU membership, what the potential trading benefits are, the costs to the UK, what the new system will look like and how it will operate.

My key issue would be why the UK government hasn't produced any plan for this. Have they been working in it?

Your question is answered in my post you have replied to.My speculation is just that.I didn't imply the UK has realistically explored the possibility of such an alliance although the Commonwealth exists as an alliance so the possibility is surely there for expansion.
If you read all my posts from yesterday you would have seen I would have preferred to remain within the EU but now we as a nation have to move on and explore other possibilities.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

I didn't say any of that Seth.
I am beginning to wonder though if the UK is able to sign free trade deals with other countries(like it has with Turkey)doesn't that make the whole point of the EU redundant?It must at least make other countries sit up and take notice.

I'd ask why but since I couldn't get an answer after six requests yesterday I think you're just regurgitating Brexity talking points with no thought whatsoever here. You say you voted remain and now you think there's something exciting about the Commonwealth but you don't know what that is, Ireland should join but you don't know why and now the EU is pointless for reasons you don't know.

I've been reading your posts for some time and they've usually come across as reasonable but this weird grasping for reasons why the EU is pointless and Britannia will once again rule the waves is just weird to be honest.

RobMc59

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's the end of 2020 and you've been active on this topic for years. There are no excuses for this level of ignorance.

Resorting to insults because I don't tow the echo chamber line is very illuminating.
Whilst on the subject of insults,if I'm lucky enough to relocate to Ireland I wouldn't spend all my spare time on a forum telling all and sundry what a bunch of gobsh@tes they all are and how inferior it is!

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'd ask why but since I couldn't get an answer after six requests yesterday I think you're just regurgitating Brexity talking points with no thought whatsoever here. You say you voted remain and now you think there's something exciting about the Commonwealth but you don't know what that is, Ireland should join but you don't know why and now the EU is pointless for reasons you don't know.

I've been reading your posts for some time and they've usually come across as reasonable but this weird grasping for reasons why the EU is pointless and Britannia will once again rule the waves is just weird to be honest.

The idea of Empires and colonial rule is long gone but there are sadly many in Ireland who refuse to let it go.Its a sorry situation that anyone who critises the EU apparently wants a return to Brittannia rules the waves Victorian times.

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

The idea of Empires and colonial rule is long gone but there are sadly many in Ireland who refuse to let it go.Its a sorry situation that anyone who critises the EU apparently wants a return to Brittannia rules the waves Victorian times.

Eh? Ireland has gone from being a poor country exploited by the UK to being a forward thinking, diverse, services-based economy with vast reserves of soft power, influence and foreign investment which is now a net contributor to the EU's budget.

The British have, on the other hand voted themselves into a recession, denuded the prospects of the next generation of Britons, perhaps fatally undermined their union and humiliated themselves on the world stage just to revive a vision of Britain that only existed in Enid Blyton books.

RobMc59

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I didn't insult you. I simply stated that there is no excuse for the level to ignorance you have about the EU and why its members are happy with it.

The trade deal with turkey is pretty much a copy paste of the EU's trade policies. Nothing about services as of yet and none of the other benefits. Throwing out wild comments saying it would make other countries sit up and notice is absurd. It's like you sold your account.

I'm under the impression this is a forum for discussion.Asking if the UK being able to replicate trading conditions with other countries on it own could raise the question of the relevance of EU membership to some nations is a reasonable question I'd say.

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

The idea of Empires and colonial rule is long gone but there are sadly many in Ireland who refuse to let it go.Its a sorry situation that anyone who critises the EU apparently wants a return to Brittannia rules the waves Victorian times.

I would say the British obsession with superiority and empire is one of the main reasons the UK has entered this situation. How do you think it reflects on a nation when a referendum to leave the EU focused primarily on fear of the other? Cause that's what the immigration obsession amounts to.

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm under the impression this is a forum for discussion.Asking if the UK being able to replicate trading conditions with other countries on it own could raise the question of the relevance of EU membership to some nations is a reasonable question I'd say.

Of course they can try to replicate existing deals or come up with new ones. Every country used to do that. However the last year or so should give an indication of the time and effort involved. For example, if there was no EU then the US could try to negotiate 27 separate trade deals, all at least slightly different, with the different countries. Much better to do one uniform deal.



The UK appeared to be struggling to do one deal with one entity over the past year. Imagine if it had been 27 deals with 27 nations! The ones that they have done appear to have been a cut and paste continuation of the status quo



Suppose you want to set up your own business Rob. You can buy or set up a local independent corner shop. Anyone can do that. Yet you see Spar and Centra shops everywhere. The reason for that is that it is better for them to be part of a group even though it costs a fee.

People pay this franchise fee and then have to abide by certain rules of the franchise. They could leave the franchise, rebrand the shop and do their own deals and logistics with suppliers etc. Yet most choose to pay the franchise fee. There are reasons for this.

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm under the impression this is a forum for discussion.Asking if the UK being able to replicate trading conditions with other countries on it own could raise the question of the relevance of EU membership to some nations is a reasonable question I'd say.

But you didn't ask. You jumped in telling Irish how exciting it would be to rejoin the commonwealth and the only fiscal benefit you can cite is that Australia made money hosting a sporting event.
In terms of replicating trading conditions, the UK had brilliant trading conditions and through incompetence and lies has thrown it away. Now you think we or other EU members should follow suit yet you still can't show one actual benefit apart from possiblys and maybes?

First Up

RobMc59 wrote:

I'm under the impression this is a forum for discussion.Asking if the UK being able to replicate trading conditions with other countries on it own could raise the question of the relevance of EU membership to some nations is a reasonable question I'd say.

The UK has been part of the EU's Customs union with Turkey since 1995.
UK exports to Turkey are less than a quarter of those to Ireland.

The deal with Turkey announced yesterday replicates what the UK has had for 25 years, at the cost of a risk to exports to Ireland and the rest of the EU which account for 43% of exports

You are free to contribute your opinions and questions to the discussion. The rest of us are free to respond.

cryptocurrency

Both major parties in Norway, Centre and Centre left, have come out and said the UK deal is much better than their EEC arrangments. Looks like the EU team have scored a massive own goal if that is the case. Sweden making noises too.

cryptocurrency

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/12/30/news/headline-2172960/

If he is right then those who negotiated te destruction of the EU and agreed on favourable terms for those outside it should be called to publically explain themselves

6541

Ian Paisley - how can anyone take that chap seriously, hasn't a brain cell in his head.

cryptocurrency

6541 wrote: »

Ian Paisley - how can anyone take that chap seriously, hasn't a brain cell in his head.

point is, if the UK does well, the EU has failed. It is that simple.

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

point is, if the UK does well, the EU has failed. It is that simple.

It is quite possible the UK will do well...so what?

Why would it mean the EU has failed?

cryptocurrency

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is quite possible the UK will do well...so what?

Why would it mean the EU has failed?

means it will fail

ArmaniJeanss

RobMc59 wrote: »

Most of what is posted on any of the brexit/piss off threads amounts to probabilities and possibilities.
Queensland reported an A$2.5 billion boost to their economy as a direct result of hosting the 2018 Commonwealth games.

Interesting you picked the Gold Coast edition but left out Delhi.
Quite the long article on how well it went for India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_and_controversies_over_the_2010_Commonwealth_Games#Financial_costs
Always tough to get the bottom line on finance, but seems the original plan was to run the games for $270M but this ever-so-slightly spiralled to $4.1B.

How about Durban, South Africa 2022. Or Birmingham UK, 2022 as its now known. The South African government worked out quite quickly that the games were a money-pit and got themselves removed as host.

So (even ignoring the fact that no city here has the venues required to run a multi-sport games) it doesn't appear to always be the profitable endeavour you suggest.

FrancieBrady

cryptocurrency wrote: »

means it will fail

Why would the UK dong well mean a trade bloc like the EU would 'fail'?


Make some sense can you?

cryptocurrency

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Interesting you picked the Gold Coast edition but left out Delhi.
Quite the long article on how well it went for India.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerns_and_controversies_over_the_2010_Commonwealth_Games#Financial_costs
Always tough to get the bottom line on finance, but seems the original plan was to run the games for $270M but this ever-so-slightly spiralled to $4.1B.

How about Durban, South Africa 2022. Or Birmingham UK, 2022 as its now known. The South African government worked out quite quickly that the games were a money-pit and got themselves removed as host.

So (even ignoring the fact that no city here has the venues required to run a multi-sport games) it doesn't appear to always be the profitable endeavour you suggest.

Looking at that and the former hosts, it is basically an event well past its sell-by date. It is mostly held in the UK, sometimes Aus and the odd time Canada..it hardly runs any other time anywhere else. 50 odd nations and it is a ego trip to remember a long gone empire. Should be laughed at.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is quite possible the UK will do well...so what?

Why would it mean the EU has failed?

So all those who post on the myriad of anti UK threads aren't bothered whether the UK does well or not post brexit ?
As someone else pointed out,its like a spurned ex who can't get over being dumped.

cryptocurrency

RobMc59 wrote: »

So all those who post on the myriad of anti UK threads aren't bothered whether the UK does well or not post brexit ?
As someone else pointed out,its like a spurned ex who can't get over being dumped.

I don't care either way but if the EU membership is meant to be a trade and financial advantage it needs to demonstrate that. The UK doing well after leaving shows different

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

So all those who post on the myriad of anti UK threads aren't bothered whether the UK does well or not post brexit ?
As someone else pointed out,its like a spurned ex who can't get over being dumped.

What 'anti UK' threads? You are being your usual oversensitive self. There is a strong 'anti Brexit' cohort here not anti UK.

Can you explain why the EU would 'fail' if the UK does well?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'anti UK' threads? You are being your usual oversensitive self. There is a strong 'anti Brexit' cohort here not anti UK.

Can you explain why the EU would 'fail' if the UK does well?

When did I say the EU would fail if the UK does well?
Your comments regarding anti UK/brexit threads doesn't fool anyone Francie.If people are just anti brexit now its about to happen do you think all the anti British threads will disappear?Highly unlikely.

timetogo1

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I don't care either way but if the EU membership is meant to be a trade and financial advantage it needs to demonstrate that. The UK doing well after leaving shows different

The UK can do well outside of the EU.
That doesn't mean it couldn't do better inside of the EU. So just doing well is not a good enough metric.

No matter how the UK does, the UK government will spin it as world beating anyway.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

When did I say the EU would fail if the UK does well?
Your comments regarding anti UK/brexit threads doesn't fool anyone Francie.If people are just anti brexit now its about to happen do you think all the anti British threads will disappear?Highly unlikely.

What 'anti British' threads? Do you mean threads criticising aspects of what Britain does or how it affects us?
Oh dear, excuse our impertinence...were's me hat until I doff it?

cryptocurrency

timetogo1 wrote: »

The UK can do well outside of the EU.
That doesn't mean it couldn't do better inside of the EU. So just doing well is not a good enough metric.

No matter how the UK does, the UK government will spin it as world beating anyway.

If the UK growth well outstrips the equiv sized economies in the EU like Germany, France and Italy, then it has prospered...that is a powerful message and one that will destroy the EU.

Barnier and co are playing a high stakes game and I feel now the whole future of the EU is staring into the abyss

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

Barnier and co are playing a high stakes game and I feel now the whole future of the EU is staring into the abyss

What abyss would that be? The UK was 8% of the EU market. Some of that business will be lost and the disruption to supply chains is a pain in the ass. A nuisance we could do without but that's all.

My contacts in Germany and elsewhere have long stopped even talking about it. They are too busy looking after their own businesses - including picking off the new customers that UK suppliers will lose because they can't compete any more.

cryptocurrency

First Up wrote: »

What abyss would that be? The UK was 8% of the EU market. Some of that business will be lost and the disruption to supply chains is a pain in the ass. A nuisance we could do without but that's all.

My contacts in Germany and elsewhere have long stopped even talking about it. They are too busy looking after their own businesses - including picking off the new customers that UK suppliers will lose because they can't compete any more.

If the UK average 3% growth over the next 10 years and Italy, Germany, France average 1%, it is an outright failure for the EU

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'anti British' threads? Do you mean threads criticising aspects of what Britain does or how it affects us?
Oh dear, excuse our impertinence...were's me hat until I doff it?

Having said that,I understand your attitude to brexit as it has probably affected you significantly due to uncertainty with your proximity to the border.

jmreire

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If the UK average 3% growth over the next 10 years and Italy, Germany, France average 1%, it is an outright failure for the EU

So, in that case, win/ win for Ireland. If the UK powers ahead, free of the EU "shackles", then time for "Irexit". BUT if it does not do that, and drop's even further behind.. we stay put.