Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

If the UK average 3% growth over the next 10 years and Italy, Germany, France average 1%, it is an outright failure for the EU

And if doesn't it isn't but where's the abyss you were talking about?

Skyfloater

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If the UK average 3% growth over the next 10 years and Italy, Germany, France average 1%, it is an outright failure for the EU

You know that phrase "If my auntie had balls..."

cryptocurrency

It's the risk...all this talk "i hope the UK does well" is nonsense ...the EU needs it to struggle, and that's a fact

Padre_Pio

cryptocurrency wrote: »

If the UK average 3% growth over the next 10 years and Italy, Germany, France average 1%, it is an outright failure for the EU

The UK hasn't gotten above 3% growth in 15 years.
Hasn't got above 2% since Brexit vote in 2016.

Why would it do well after Brexit?
Unless these are the British Leprechaun economics, like when they said Britain was doing fantastic coming up to one of their many deadlines, but really the GDP bump was stockpiling and panic buying.


Also, why is it that Brexit supporters are always so optimistic about the future? The UK govt has been a shambles the last 4 years, but all along the way Brexiters have been so optimistic that things will go well.

astrofool

I would imagine the next 4-5 years of figures from the UK will be heavily massaged to look like success regardless of what the reality is, similarly, every trade deal will be trumpeted but detail will be lacking.

timetogo1

astrofool wrote: »

similarly, every trade deal will be trumpeted but detail will be lacking.

Well that bit has already been going on. So far the trade deals they've gotten have been copy / paste of what they already had, or worse. Doesn't stop them selling them as a success.

(https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1376934/brexit-trade-deal-EU-UK-world-liz-truss) - The link is to the Express so no need to click it, you can guess what it says.

They've conveniently forgotten all the new amazing deals they were going to get on day one.

Bonniedog

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Both major parties in Norway, Centre and Centre left, have come out and said the UK deal is much better than their EEC arrangments. Looks like the EU team have scored a massive own goal if that is the case. Sweden making noises too.

Well that's the real issue. EU do not want member states to be picking and choosing. Poles and Hungarians have basically told them that they are happy to be part of the economic aspects and Poles do like the security given their history, but draw the line at Brussels interference in domestic matters.

Was reading book on De Gaulle a few months ago, and he was pretty adamant that the then EEC ought to remain as an economic entity and as a mechanism for ensuring that there would be no more continental wars. He would likely have been closer to Le Pen now regarding all the other issues.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well that's the real issue. EU do not want member states to be picking and choosing. Poles and Hungarians have basically told them that they are happy to be part of the economic aspects and Poles do like the security given their history, but draw the line at Brussels interference in domestic matters.

Was reading book on De Gaulle a few months ago, and he was pretty adamant that the then EEC ought to remain as an economic entity and as a mechanism for ensuring that there would be no more continental wars. He would likely have been closer to Le Pen now regarding all the other issues.

The 'EU' as some sinister entity above it 'member states' stuff again. Yawn. Yawn especially after 4 years of the EU (Us and all the other member states) unifying behind it's core beliefs.

fly_agaric

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's the risk...all this talk "i hope the UK does well" is nonsense ...the EU needs it to struggle, and that's a fact

You posting it does not make it a fact...quite the contrary (!)

No one knows the future. The year just past should demonstrate that. The UK could "prosper mightily" outside the EU. I think it unlikely, and probably impossible with the current UK govt.

That's not to say they couldn't have an excellent, competent + honest govt. in future that will implement some great policies or takes advantage of their new position outside the EU in some way (that I cannot see/emerges due to future events).

Again, if the UK succeeds, it cannot be because they retained too many benefits of EU membership without responsibilities + essentially were allowed to freeload off or exploit the remaining EU members. That would be a massive, maybe fatal problem for the EU and I think that is what the UK has been aiming for. I have not read the agreement and don't have knowledge to understand all implications anyway.

It will emerge over the coming years if they achieved that goal but I really doubt it given the future existence of the EU could depend on them not getting what they wanted.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'EU' as some sinister entity above it 'member states' stuff again. Yawn. Yawn especially after 4 years of the EU (Us and all the other member states) unifying behind it's core beliefs.

What core beliefs would they be now?

Time was you'd have been booted out of shinners for your EU sycophancy.

Then again there was a time you'd have been booted out for supporting Partition and running the north for the Brits

First Up

cryptocurrency wrote:

It's the risk...all this talk "i hope the UK does well" is nonsense ...the EU needs it to struggle, and that's a fact

I don't know what strange world you inhabit but in the real one, the EU is 27 countries, each with it's own electorate, economy, industries and concerns. Each one of them will deal with Brexit in its own way - minimising the damage and making the most of the opportunities.

Also in the real world, wealth is created by the private sector, not by governments. The private sector will do what it takes to survive and prosper in whatever political or ideological situation in finds itself in.

So there is no "EU" that "needs" the UK to struggle. The thousands of industries and millions of citizens that make up the EU have other things to worry about. If the UK struggles (which it almost certainly will) it will be because they have made it too difficult, too uncertain and too expensive for others to do business with them.

That won't happen by anyone's design: it will be because not enough people who live in a real world knew a good thing when they saw it.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

What core beliefs would they be now?

Time was you'd have been booted out of shinners for your EU sycophancy.

Then again there was a time you'd have been booted out for supporting Partition and running the north for the Brits

Typical...revert to invective when your myth making about a sinister 'EU' that is different to the EU made up of it's members, is challenged.

That EU coalesced to protect itself over the last 4 years and held to it's core beliefs that the SM and CU integrity is intrinsic to it's success. Everyone in the EU realised the problems posed by Brexit on this island and did nothing to undermine us.
We won't always win and never should have expected to win everytime in the EU, but enough of the yawn inducing Irexit myth making...eh Bonnie? It's tired and doesn't stand a second of scrutiny.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical...revert to invective when your myth making about a sinister 'EU' that is different to the EU made up of it's members, is challenged.

That EU coalesced to protect itself over the last 4 years and held to it's core beliefs that the SM and CU integrity is intrinsic to it's success. Everyone in the EU realised the problems posed by Brexit on this island and did nothing to undermine us.
We won't always win and never should have expected to win everytime in the EU, but enough of the yawn inducing Irexit myth making...eh Bonnie? It's tired and doesn't stand a second of scrutiny.

Don't like being reminded of where the Shinner's wonderful "journey" has taken you all to?

All those lives wasted on all sides to put more carpet bagging careerists in clover.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Don't like being reminded of where the Shinner's wonderful "journey" has taken you all to?

All those lives wasted on all sides to put more carpet bagging careerists in clover.

Well you are hindsight expert in all these things.

I'm sure if the 'RA or SF had consulted you they might have thought differently, but sadly that didn't happen did it.

Could you deal with the thread topic and not your bug bears?

Dyr

Bonniedog wrote: »

What core beliefs would they be now?

Time was you'd have been booted out of shinners for your EU sycophancy.

Then again there was a time you'd have been booted out for supporting Partition and running the north for the Brits

Harsh, but true

FrancieBrady

A few folk need to get over the fact the world moved on or maybe join the dissidents if you miss the old days.

Scoondal

26 hours to go. Get Britain out. Lets start supporting EU football. Buy our stuff from EU websites. Go study in EU countries. Parle une langue comme nos voisons a l'Union Européen.
Oh how the Earth turns.

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well you are hindsight expert in all these things.

I'm sure if the 'RA or SF had consulted you they might have thought differently, but sadly that didn't happen did it.

Could you deal with the thread topic and not your bug bears?

Well like a lot of republicans in the early 90s I was "consulted", then lied to. no one joined the republican movement then for the reasons that attracted the likes of you.

Bubbaclaus

Scoondal wrote: »

26 hours to go. Get Britain out. Lets start supporting EU football. Buy our stuff from EU websites. Go study in EU countries. Parle une langue comme nos voisons a l'Union Européen.
Oh how the Earth turns.

The UK left the EU 11 months ago.

Doctor Roast

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'EU' as some sinister entity above it 'member states' stuff again. Yawn. Yawn especially after 4 years of the EU (Us and all the other member states) unifying behind it's core beliefs.

It doesn't even believe in its own core beliefs, it opposes the will of the people

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well like a lot of republicans in the early 90s I was "consulted", then lied to. no one joined the republican movement then for the reasons that attracted the likes of you.

I didn't 'join' any movement and didn't vote for SF until they evolved (you know that thing that happens when you don't stay stuck in hidebound allegiance?) into what they are now.

I am not the person you need to see/deal with if you were 'lied' to. Personally, I hold Adams and McGuinness in huge regard in where they took the 'movement'. Clearly they were dealing with people who wanted to stay put or regress, not easy to please those, hence the dissident 'movement'.

astrofool

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't 'join' any movement and didn't vote for SF until they evolved (you know that thing that happens when you don't stay stuck in hidebound allegiance?) into what they are now.

Out of interest, who did you vote for before SF? When did you switch?

FrancieBrady

astrofool wrote: »

Out of interest, who did you vote for before SF? When did you switch?

I have voted for SF in a GE the grand total of 'once'.

I didn't 'switch', no party ever owned my vote and I have voted for most of them at various elections over the years.

VinLieger

Doctor Roast wrote: »

It doesn't even believe in its own core beliefs, it opposes the will of the people

LOL ill bite, go on how exactly does the EU oppose the will of the people?

Doctor Roast

VinLieger wrote: »

LOL ill bite, go on how exactly does the EU oppose the will of the people?

The French and Dutch referendums on an EU constitution only to have their votes ignored,all subsequent referendums in other countries were cancelled when they seen the French and Dutch votes, of course they wanted more EU.... various treaties that were rejected only to have to vote again until they give the EU approved answer.. Bite away, the truth is the EU has a repeated pattern of antidemocratic behaviour

Leroy42

Doctor Roast wrote: »

The French and Dutch referendums on an EU constitution only to have their votes ignored,all subsequent referendums in other countries were cancelled when they seen the French and Dutch votes, of course they wanted more EU.... various treaties that were rejected only to have to vote again until they give the EU approved answer.. Bite away, the truth is the EU has a repeated pattern of antidemocratic behaviour

And Brexit?

Doctor Roast

Leroy42 wrote: »

And Brexit?

They wouldn't get away with that on the Brits... Plenty of talk and calls for a second referendum though... Until the desired result is achieved

Junkyard Tom

Doctor Roast wrote: »

They wouldn't get away with that on the Brits... Plenty of talk and calls for a second referendum though... Until the desired result is achieved

Being able to change political direction is the essence of democracy. The inability to change one's political position, or representatives, is known as totalitarianism.

Dyr

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Being able to change political direction is the essence of democracy. The inability to change one's political position, or representatives, is known as totalitarianism.

Oh right, so how do we repeal legislation and laws imposed on us by the EU?

FrancieBrady

Bambi wrote: »

Oh right, so how do we repeal legislation and laws imposed on us by the EU?

Vote for those who will represent you. Quaint wee thing called democracy.