Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

RobMc59 · 27-01-2021 6:40pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Throughout the debate and process of Brexit, fishing was held up as the clearest and easiest to understand example of where the Brexit dividend lay. That it was so immaterial was passed off as an example of the great rewards awaiting Brexit Britain.

It is thus ironic that fishing should be the first and most public casualty of Brexit and among the first sectors to be calling it out as a failure.

If that's true,why all the squealing from coastal nations about reduced quotas?

J Mysterio · 27-01-2021 6:46pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

If that's true,why all the squealing from coastal nations about reduced quotas?

The issue for EU fishermen is not selling the fish, it's losing access they have enjoyed for hundreds or thousands of years which is their problem.

UK fishermen biggest problem is not quotas, it's that they are finding it impossible to sell their fish.

RobMc59 · 27-01-2021 6:53pm

J Mysterio wrote: »

The issue for EU fishermen is not selling the fish, it's losing access they have enjoyed for hundreds or thousands of years which is their problem.

UK fishermen biggest problem is not quotas, it's that they are finding it impossible to sell their fish.

So eu fishermen don’t think its a good deal for them then?

J Mysterio · 27-01-2021 7:28pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

So eu fishermen don’t think its a good deal for them then?

No.

Leroy42 · 27-01-2021 10:09pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

So eu fishermen don’t think its a good deal for them then?

Forget EU fishermen, the UK always wanted them to lose out.

But the UK fishermen, the paragons of Britishness that were going to be the first and most important beneficiaries of Brexit and now openly calling it out as a disaster.

Donald Trump · 27-01-2021 10:24pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

If that's true,why all the squealing from coastal nations about reduced quotas?

It's not, and never was, a zero sum game. The Brexiteer's played it like it was. But it never was. Everyone loses.

Seth Brundle · 27-01-2021 10:41pm

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's not, and never was, a zero sum game. The Brexiteer's played it like it was. But it never was. Everyone loses.

...and well he knows it!
I suspect there might be a sense of satisfaction knowing that the EU is suffering.

Donald Trump · 28-01-2021 12:10am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and well he knows it!
I suspect there might be a sense of satisfaction knowing that the EU is suffering.

I'd say the EU fishermen will be looked after by the EU.

UK fishermen to be looked after by the UK.......????

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1352566928393592833

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 12:44am

The Astrazeneca and broader vaccine situation is a complete PR disaster for the EU.

Big PR win for Britain and Boris.

Now Hungary is next to break ranks after Germany and is looking to Russia blaming slow vaccine delivery. Absolute certainty more will follow in coming days.

The EU had planned everyone would be on the same page...no longer it seems.

Britain done well here.

McGiver · 28-01-2021 1:07am

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Britain done well here.

100k dead, in 1 year. That's surely a success.

To compare - British WW2 military casualties were 382k in 6 years, 63k per year in average. And that's casualties in the whole British Empire not just the UK and on all fronts - Europe, North Africa and Asia

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 1:12am

Brexit Britain getting 2 million doses a week from AZ alone while EU is in a mess now.

Why not just acknowledge the EU has screwed up here?

Even Germany saw the writing on the wall a week a go.

ancapailldorcha · 28-01-2021 1:14am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Brexit Britain getting 2 million does a week from AZ alone while EU is in a mess now.

Why not just acknowledge the EU has screwed up here?

Even Germany saw the writing on the wall a week a go.

Because it's just more of your unsubstantiated hyperbole.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 1:19am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Because it's just more of your unsubstantiated hyperbole.

You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge Britain is far ahead of the EU here and the latter has shown incompetence at best.

EU members are now ignoring the commission and doing their own deals.

:rolleyes:

We should either ask for vaccines in the form of aid from Britain (they'll have 100 million doses and are pondering what to do with the spare product) or side order ourselves. If it's good enough for Germany...

Padre_Pio · 28-01-2021 1:33am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge Britain is far ahead of the EU here and the latter has shown incompetence at best.

EU members are now ignoring the commission and doing their own deals.

:rolleyes:

We should either ask for vaccines in the form of aid from Britain (they'll have 100 million doses and are pondering what to do with the spare product) or side order ourselves. If it's good enough for Germany...

Maybe it's because Astrazenica is a UK drug with a dedicated UK facility?
Plenty of other vaccines to go around.

Besides, vaccine rollout is small fry in the grand scheme. People under 50 don't really need a vaccine, the death rate is microscopic. We can wait. The death rate will drop so long as the over 70s are taken care of.

Seems like brexiters are clutching at any straw that makes Brexit look worthwhile, even though any country could have started earlier vaccinations.

In 6 months no one will remember who vaccinated quicker. The only thing people will remember is the number of deaths, and Britain's abysmal handling of the pandemic.

RobMc59 · 28-01-2021 10:42am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

...and well he knows it!
I suspect there might be a sense of satisfaction knowing that the EU is suffering.

No,I get no satisfaction from Irish fishermen suffering,I do think that whoever decided the quota reduction didn't do Ireland any favours.

Leroy42 · 28-01-2021 10:59am

RobMc59 wrote: »

No,I get no satisfaction from Irish fishermen suffering,I do think that whoever decided the quota reduction didn't do Ireland any favours.

so the UK!

That is who decided it.

And the point being that even with that, with Fishing being supposedly one the key reasons for Brexit, now the UK fishermen are screwed because shutting yourself off for your main market and the idea of sovereinght and 'happy fish' is a terrible idea and is going to cost everyone in the long run

But that is the choice that the UK people made. They wanted this

ancapailldorcha · 28-01-2021 11:11am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You just can't bring yourself to acknowledge Britain is far ahead of the EU here and the latter has shown incompetence at best.

EU members are now ignoring the commission and doing their own deals.

:rolleyes:

We should either ask for vaccines in the form of aid from Britain (they'll have 100 million doses and are pondering what to do with the spare product) or side order ourselves. If it's good enough for Germany...

More drivel.

They approved the vaccine while effectively still in the EU and bound by its laws. In the meantime, they faffed about at the beginning and allowed more than 100,000 people to die so I suppose in that regard they are way ahead of the curve.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-01-2021 11:31am

Great interview just now on Claire Bryne with Billy Kelleher and a British MP. Comments from callers refreshing and absolutely correct. Very rare to see such criticism of Brussels in Ireland but it's deserved here. We have been let down while Britain is way ahead.

No matter what your perspective on the EU you should be able to criticise them when it is deserved. Otherwise you are just deceiving yourself. If anything they are letting you down even more.

Germany and now Hungary have decided enough is enough and are not leaving the EU deal with things. More likely to follow in coming days. They are doing their own deals. I think we should do the same.

Professor Moriarty · 28-01-2021 11:34am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Great interview just now on Claire Bryne with Billy Kelleher and a British MP. Comments from callers refreshing and absolutely correct. Very rare to see such criticism of Brussels in Ireland but it's deserved here. We have been let down while Britain is way ahead.

No matter what your perspective on the EU you should be able to criticise them when it is deserved. Otherwise you are just deceiving yourself. If anything they are letting you down even more.

Germany and now Hungary have decided enough is enough and are not leaving the EU deal with things. More likely to follow in coming days. They are doing their own deals. I think we should do the same.

Did Germany buy vaccines independently? Would you have a link to this?

RobMc59 · 28-01-2021 12:01pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

so the UK!

That is who decided it.

And the point being that even with that, with Fishing being supposedly one the key reasons for Brexit, now the UK fishermen are screwed because shutting yourself off for your main market and the idea of sovereinght and 'happy fish' is a terrible idea and is going to cost everyone in the long run

But that is the choice that the UK people made. They wanted this

It was big brother in brussels who decided how the quotas will be divided,Germany has the largest reduction followed by Ireland.

Leroy42 · 28-01-2021 12:41pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

It was big brother in brussels who decided how the quotas will be divided,Germany has the largest reduction followed by Ireland.

But it was the UK that cut the quotas. Do you accept that? Brussles are splitting the quotas based on agreement from the member countries and since the UK decided to stop the EU having access that has meant less quotas for everyone.

You can certainly argue about the respective impact of the reduction of quotas on each member state, but the blame for any reduction lies directly, and solely, with the UK.

Its funny that the UK continued on with the narrative that anytime they didn't get what they wanted, and even know paperwork is called a punishment by Brussles for Brexit, but the UK actually took great pride from punishing the EU fishermen.

But that is just moving away from the initial point. Brexit was meant to deliver opportunities to the UK, that the costs and economic hit and the hit to their international standing would all be worth it. And Front and centre of those opportunities were fishermen. Everyone acknowledged that it was immaterial in the overall, but it was the principle. By delivering on fish, the rest of the more complex parts of the deal would follow.

And yet, fish is the first victim of Brexit. Of course you want to move the conversation to the EU, but at the heart of it fishing has blown a gaping hole in the very idea that Brexit will actually deliver any benefit to the UK.

ancapailldorcha · 28-01-2021 1:02pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

It was big brother in brussels who decided how the quotas will be divided,Germany has the largest reduction followed by Ireland.

Who in Brussels divide the quotas? How was it done?

RobMc59 · 28-01-2021 1:22pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Who in Brussels divide the quotas? How was it done?

Don't waffle,you know as well as the rest of us what has gone on but just for you...
"‘Mackerel maternity ward’ Ireland angry at Brexit fishing waters carve-up – POLITICO" https://www-politico-eu.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.politico.eu/article/ireland-fishing-quotas-anger-brexit/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16118363659357&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.eu%2Farticle%2Fireland-fishing-quotas-anger-brexit%2F

Leroy42 · 28-01-2021 1:52pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Don't waffle,you know as well as the rest of us what has gone on but just for you...
"‘Mackerel maternity ward’ Ireland angry at Brexit fishing waters carve-up – POLITICO" https://www-politico-eu.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.politico.eu/article/ireland-fishing-quotas-anger-brexit/amp/?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16118363659357&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.politico.eu%2Farticle%2Fireland-fishing-quotas-anger-brexit%2F

But do you acknowledge that it was entirely down the British decision to cut EU access to Uk fishing grounds that has led to the reduction quotas?

RobMc59 · 28-01-2021 1:59pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

But do you acknowledge that it was entirely down the British decision to cut EU access to Uk fishing grounds that has led to the reduction quotas?

Why are you referring to the deal which is supposed to be fantastic for the EU?This is a consequence of that deal.As I've said,I believe Ireland have been treated very badly by brussels over this.

ancapailldorcha · 28-01-2021 2:12pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why are you referring to the deal which is supposed to be fantastic for the EU?This is a consequence of that deal.As I've said,I believe Ireland have been treated very badly by brussels over this.

No, it hasn't. Brussels has stood up for Ireland and prevented Perfidious Albion from following through with repeated threats to renege on its commitment to no hard border in Ireland.

Leroy42 · 28-01-2021 2:14pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Why are you referring to the deal which is supposed to be fantastic for the EU?This is a consequence of that deal.As I've said,I believe Ireland have been treated very badly by brussels over this.

Why are you avoiding the question?

The deal wasn't fantastic for the EU. IT was a pretty good outcome from a negative impact imposed on them by the UK. The EU was always going to suffer a negative impact from Brexit. But al least they acknowledge that and looked to minimise it. The UK went out of its way to make the impact os severe as possible on all sides.

Brexit was a UK thing. Not EU. Eu is impacted due to the choices of the UK.

The UK decided to put fishing as a No 1 priority, above financial services, professional qualification acceptance, Erasmus etc etc etc

It was their big policy, one that they were determined to win. So they cut down EU access to their waters in a bid to show their sovereignty.

Faced with that the EU were forced to reduce the quotas. Yet you seem to be stuck on the EU reducing the quotas without acknowledging that it is all down to the UK.

And, as I repeatedly point out, even with that the UK have ended up with a disaster for many in the UK fishing industry. So they, the UK, and they alone, have led to the negative effect on both Eu fishermen and UK fishermen.

Imreoir2 · 28-01-2021 3:23pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

So eu fishermen don’t think its a good deal for them then?

You seem to think its a zero sum game, if the deal is bad for the EU it must be good for Britain.

In reality it's not a good deal for anyone, nobody 'won'. It's worse for everyone than the previous arangement, much like Brexit as a whole.

The Brexit conmen promised that Brexit would be a success, and that this success would be most evident in the area of fishing. They have, once again, been shown to be liars.

First Up · 28-01-2021 5:17pm

Imreoir2 wrote:

The Brexit conmen promised that Brexit would be a success, and that this success would be most evident in the area of fishing. They have, once again, been shown to be liars.

They must be close to running out of things to be wrong about and straws to clutch.

Scoondal · 28-01-2021 10:05pm

EU didn't end up "throwing Ireland under the bus".
UK did end up throwing NI under their own bus.
It's a UK problem now. Let them sort out the mess they have created in their "united" kingdom.
Ireland has shown much more immediate dynamic solutions than the UK. Businesses are better prepared, ports infrastructure has already been upgraded and we are increasing our direct shipping routes to other EU ports.
Little britain is scrabbling around trying to make things work and blaming the EU for being nasty and vindictive (ref Nigel Farage).