Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)
Options
Comments
-
When this whole ****show broke I posted that it will be amusing to watch the gymnastics some posters will perform to avoid admitting that its a ****show of the EUs making
The EU made a balls of their vaccination strategy, long before they started a public war of words with AZ. The British vaccine strategy was on the money. The results speak for themselves.
The EU tried to trigger article 16, the Brits didn't
None of that is "tabloid spin". You'll just find on boards the type of Irish person who will defend their percieved betters no matter what. The Germans, the Dutch, The French, don't suffer from that particularly Irish inferiority complex. They're not going "but...but what about Brexit". They're calling for heads to roll for this shambles
That said, They werent glefully predicting that the Brits would be enduring shortages of medicine post Brexit.
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that this row means nothing in terms of whether Brexit is a success or not.
There is no tabloid spin, hence the universal negative reaction. Can you point out the spin that you are talking about?
If you mean the 'spin' that people are saying that this really isn't such a massive problem, although it certainly had the possibility of becoming one, since the EU stepped back after listening to its members, then is more the reality of the situation rather than the hyperbole from the DUP and Tory claiming that Art 16 was something nobody should ever even mention...despite Johnson two weeks ago claiming he would invoke it at any time if he felt like it.
Of course there needs to be a review, I don't think anyone is denying that. Unlike, for example, the UK, which continues to say that now is not the time to review anything to do with Covid.
The EU didn't make a balls of it, but certainly but I would say that they should have been more proactive and aggressive in their targeting of vaccines. For one, they should have made sure that they got a guaranteed delivery, and that others would have to suffer. It seems they took the view that AZ would treat everyone equally.
As I posted earlier, I think the EU will learn a big lesson from this. I also think they will look for a stronger unified approach in the future. They lost time by having individual countries start the process before getting involved. As an issue like Covid affects everyone in the EU, it makes sense to have a collective approach.
Nobody is defending the EU, what people like myself are stating is that the pearl-clutching is a bit much to take from the UK when they acted like spoilt children for the last 4 years. Demanding they get special treatment.
But now they have the upper hand, they are making sure that the EU is made feel as uncomfortable as possible.
There are a number of things that can be true at the same time
1) The Eu made a mistake
2) Brexit is a disaster
3) The UK has done well in the vaccines
4) the bet that the Uk made on vaccines may have failed and it would have ended up like the EU were the wiser.0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,708 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 36570
When this whole ****show broke I posted that it will be amusing to watch the gymnastics some posters will perform to avoid admitting that its a ****show of the EUs making
The EU made a balls of their vaccination strategy, long before they started a public war of words with AZ. The British vaccine strategy was on the money. The results speak for themselves.
The EU tried to trigger article 16, the Brits didn't
None of that is "tabloid spin". You'll just find on boards the type of Irish person who will defend their percieved betters no matter what. The Germans, the Dutch, The French, don't suffer from that particularly Irish inferiority complex. They're not going "but...but what about Brexit". They're calling for heads to roll for this shambles
That said, They werent glefully predicting that the Brits would be enduring shortages of medicine post Brexit.
So you're only here to gloat about some sort of imaginary win, basically.The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
0 -
-
-
ancapailldorcha wrote: »So you're only here to gloat about some sort of imaginary win, basically.
Here to highlight the blind devotion we see from some posters towards the EU that precludes any criticism of it. In the hope others realise its not a healthy thing to see in our society
It's a terrible loss for Ireland, our vaccine rollout up on blocks, our position on the broder undermined by the EU, showing us that they can impose a border over our heads if they want.
It might serve to Illustrate why the powers of a state should be not be divested from elected governments, that are answerable to voters and a parliamentary oppostion, to be given to a commission appointed by international bargaining. But thats just me y'know, thinking nation states are far more democratic and accountable than international bodies. 0 -
Advertisement
-
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,708 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 36570
Here to highlight the blind devotion we see from some posters towards the EU that precludes any criticism of it. In the hope others realise its not a healthy thing to see in our society
It's a terrible loss for Ireland, our vaccine rollout up on blocks, our position on the broder undermined by the EU, showing us that they can impose a border over our heads if they want.
It might serve to Illustrate why the powers of a state should be not be divested from elected governments, that are answerable to voters and a parliamentary oppostion, to be given to a commission appointed by international bargaining. But thats just me y'know, thinking nation states are far more democratic and accountable than international bodies.
This is just the usual Europhobic sophistry.
I don't think the EU is perfect and I've no problem criticising it but the fake-outrage on display here and the fawning over a country whose leader didn't even bother attending Cobra meetings, boasted about shaking hands with patients and dithered about locking down resulting in over 100,000 deaths.
The only reason the vaccine worked was because it was developed by experts at Oxford and AstraZeneca. I'd estimate the current Conservative party wouldn't have let the foreign team members into the country when they immigrated if they'd the chance. Now they want to undermine it by mixing and match and delaying the boosters for numbers.
The one triumph about the British response and it has nothing to do with the government.The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
0 -
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Peregrinus wrote: »Apart from making a few phone calls and having the decision reversed less than 24 hours after it was made, you mean?
The EU hasn't exactly covered itself with glory here and there are a number of lessons to be learned. But it requires an extraordinarily one-eyed view to conclude that one of those lessons is that Ireland is without influence in the EU. The course of events shows that the exact opposite is the case.
Previously it was next to impossible for the Brits to impose a hard border on this Island daue to the GFA. Now we've found out that both the EU and Brits can do so over our heads via Article 16 and our Government will have no say, other than ring up either party and ask if they very kindly wouldnt mind letting us have our peace deal back, pretty please.
And some posters on here think we should be grateful to the EU that we've dont have a hard border...after they unilaterally imposed a hard border and made it far eaiser for the Brits to justify doing so in the future
You have to believe that this is the level of competence in the commision for that to fly, in which case how could you not demand resignations
You literally have to believe to believe this is how events unfolded0 -
Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,708 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 36570
Previously it was next to impossible for the Brits to impose a hard border on this Island daue to the GFA. Now we've found out that both the EU and Brits can do so over our heads via Article 16 and our Government will have no say, other than ring up either party and ask if they very kindly wouldnt mind letting us have our peace deal back, pretty please.
And some posters on here think we should be grateful to the EU that we've dont have a hard border...after they unilaterally imposed a hard border and made it far eaiser for the Brits to justify doing so in the future
You have to believe that this is the level of competence in the commision for that to fly, in which case how could you not demand resignations
You literally have to believe to believe this is how events unfolded
All wrong. Article 16 was never activated. It was just a proposal.The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
0 -
Previously it was next to impossible for the Brits to impose a hard border on this Island daue to the GFA. Now we've found out that both the EU and Brits can do so over our heads via Article 16 and our Government will have no say, other than ring up either party and ask if they very kindly wouldnt mind letting us have our peace deal back, pretty please.
And some posters on here think we should be grateful to the EU that we've dont have a hard border...after they unilaterally imposed a hard border and made it far eaiser for the Brits to justify doing so in the future
You have to believe that this is the level of competence in the commision for that to fly, in which case how could you not demand resignations
You literally have to believe to believe this is how events unfolded
Despite its imperfections, on the world stage, the EU is the only show in town for Ireland.0 -
-
Previously it was next to impossible for the Brits to impose a hard border on this Island daue to the GFA. Now we've found out that both the EU and Brits can do so over our heads via Article 16 and our Government will have no say, other than ring up either party and ask if they very kindly wouldnt mind letting us have our peace deal back, pretty please.
And some posters on here think we should be grateful to the EU that we've dont have a hard border...after they unilaterally imposed a hard border and made it far eaiser for the Brits to justify doing so in the future
You have to believe that this is the level of competence in the commision for that to fly, in which case how could you not demand resignations
You literally have to believe to believe this is how events unfolded
It was the UK decision to trigger Brexit that started the need for a hard border. Only for the EU agreeing to set aside its own rules was a border avoided.
A border, either now or in the future, is 100% down to the decision of the Uk to leave the EU. Where the UK still in the EU then a border wouldn't even be being talked about.
The GFA did not create a No Border. The standard rules across the two countries, UK and ROI, due to EU membership meant that the need for a border was much reduced and both countries could live with the non existence of a border.
Brexit is based entirely on erecting and controlling borders.
How you can possibly call any border the EU's fault, when the entire point of the EU has been to reduce borders, is frankly, laughable.0 -
ancapailldorcha wrote: »All wrong. Article 16 was never activated. It was just a proposal.
There's gymnastics and then theres plain dishonesty
"The EU invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.
In a new regulation, the European Commission stated: "This is justified as a safeguard measure pursuant to Article 16 of that Protocol in order to avert serious societal difficulties due to a lack of supply threatening to disturb the orderly implementation of the vaccination campaigns in the Member States." "
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442
"The Commission said it triggered Article 16 using the emergency procedure, which allows it to “act fast before the Member States are formally consulted” due to “the urgency of the situation, justified by the lack of transparency in a time where the production and delivery of vaccines is still in the building-up phase and the ensuing temporary global shortage.”"
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-fight-crisis-call/
"Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Mr Coveney said triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol was a mistake that should not have happened."
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0201/1194281-article-16-brexit-politics/Despite its imperfections, on the world stage, the EU is the only show in town for Ireland.
Used to be a lot of people on this Island who made similar statements about the British Empire. Didn't work out well for us in the end 0 -
There's gymnastics and then theres plain dishonesty
"The EU invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.
In a new regulation, the European Commission stated: "This is justified as a safeguard measure pursuant to Article 16 of that Protocol in order to avert serious societal difficulties due to a lack of supply threatening to disturb the orderly implementation of the vaccination campaigns in the Member States." "
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442
"The Commission said it triggered Article 16 using the emergency procedure, which allows it to “act fast before the Member States are formally consulted” due to “the urgency of the situation, justified by the lack of transparency in a time where the production and delivery of vaccines is still in the building-up phase and the ensuing temporary global shortage.”"
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-fight-crisis-call/
"Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne, Mr Coveney said triggering Article 16 of the Northern Ireland protocol was a mistake that should not have happened."
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0201/1194281-article-16-brexit-politics/
Used to be a lot of people on this Island who made similar statements about the British Empire. Didn't work out well for us in the end
It was triggered but had no effect because we intervened.
Are you proposing we team up with the UK or a 'go it alone' alternative?0 -
-
-
Advertisement
-
Advertisement