Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

An Claidheamh

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

On Question Time there's was a Tory moaning about 'stupid' 'spiteful' EU rules on shellfish (that the UK helped craft while in the EU) while bringing the north into it as a possible hostage to force the EU to kneel before Lord Boris, what a complete and utter bastard.

I remember why I stopped watching Question Time it's essentially a form of psychological self-harming.

You get the impression that the audience in that show are the types that get up early to put their towels on sun loungers

It’s jingoistic nonsense most of the time

Out of interest, how did he want to use the North against the EU?

Britain are not in a position to threaten anyone, quite the opposite

Tell me how

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

On Question Time there's was a Tory moaning about 'stupid' 'spiteful' EU rules on shellfish (that the UK helped craft while in the EU) while bringing the north into it as a possible hostage to force the EU to kneel before Lord Boris, what a complete and utter bastard.

I remember why I stopped watching Question Time it's essentially a form of psychological self-harming.

Priti Patel

“This paper appears to show the government were well aware Ireland will face significant issues in a no-deal scenario. Why hasn’t this point been pressed home during negotiations,”

These were the people saying the EU weren't negotiating in good faith.

Junkyard Tom

An Claidheamh wrote: »

Out of interest, how did he want to use the North against the EU?

He started off by crying about the EU's rules on shellfish and ended up suggesting that they'll have to renegotiate everything because of the trouble they're having in the north. I can't remember his exact words but I interpreted them as a coded threat. I'd have to see it again.

An Claidheamh

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

He started off by crying about the EU's rules on shellfish and ended up suggesting that they'll have to renegotiate everything because of the trouble they're having in the north. I can't remember his exact words but I interpreted them as a coded threat. I'd have to see it again.

More like the trouble his crowd are having in the North, 5 years and the kid gloves have never worked with the Brits

An Claidheamh

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-02-10/brexit-deal-backfired-on-us-garden-centre-in-northern-ireland-struggles-to-import-soil-from-britain

2 hours and 10 minutes into the report, John Ray mentioned the empty supermarket shelves left by missing British goods.

But there is a grace period in force. So why have those shortages still happened in Northern Ireland?

Don’t think that John Ray fella has a clue

Keeps referring to the North as “Ulster”, interviews two flower merchants and the leader of the British version of the KKK

I wonder is it mandatory to be ignorant and smug when working in the British media, it is not as if they own that part of the world for hundreds of years or something ...

View

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

He started off by crying about the EU's rules on shellfish and ended up suggesting that they'll have to renegotiate everything because of the trouble they're having in the north. I can't remember his exact words but I interpreted them as a coded threat. I'd have to see it again.

FTAs are rarely altered and then maybe once every thirty to forty years or so. They can get back to the EU countries about the FTA in 2060...

Leroy42

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Meh EU can destroy UK crown jewel the finance sector at stroke of pen by passing stricter antimoney laundering and kyc directives. If people and businesses have to prove the uk financial institutions they deal with is not laundering for Putin or moving money into any of British offshore locations then it be quite a barrier to these services.

As added bonus it be a kick in balls to dark and dirty money which is used to drive anti democratic agendas in Europe.

Let's not get too carried away. You can be certain that plenty of companies and people in the EU also take advantage of CoL for the same ends and won't be to excited at the prospect of tighter regulations if the business needs to move into the EU.

CoL will remain a powerhouse in the financial markets. The issue it will have is that other alternatives are being sought out, as can be seen by the movement of funds away in the last few weeks. One thing that is true across history, is that those at the top nearly always assume that nothing can ever replace them. They have always been proved wrong.

Donald Trump

Leroy42 wrote: »

Let's not get too carried away. You can be certain that plenty of companies and people in the EU also take advantage of CoL for the same ends and won't be to excited at the prospect of tighter regulations if the business needs to move into the EU.

CoL will remain a powerhouse in the financial markets. The issue it will have is that other alternatives are being sought out, as can be seen by the movement of funds away in the last few weeks. One thing that is true across history, is that those at the top nearly always assume that nothing can ever replace them. They have always been proved wrong.

Amsterdam overtakes London in terms of average daily trading volume for month of January. London dropped from 17.5bn to 8.6bn Euro per day. Amsterdam went from 2.6bn to 9.2bn



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/11/amsterdam-overtakes-london-as-europes-top-share-trading-centre


You can argue symbolic etc. But the point is that nothing lasts forever and should not be taken for granted. I think the UK is too arrogant over the nice buildings they have in the City that they have built up over the last 30-40 years.



Other locations can also build buildings too. Ireland's IFSC was built from nothing but some tax incentives and underutilized, almost waste, ground in the city centre. Obviously not a massive player globally in terms of Front Office work but actually sizeable enough in terms of Back Office. Middle Office operations have also increase substantially over the last decade.

Snickers Man

Amirani wrote: »

Stop using Ray Bassett (or the Express) as a source for anything, seriously.

Ray Bassett, the one fat cat bureaucrat on a massive public service pension from an EU country that the pro-Brexit zealots in Britain can't get enough of!!!

You'd almost think he had something worthwhile to say, given the number of times the EU-obsessed British YouTube vloggers quote him.

He has got to be the most beloved Irish commentator, by English audiences anyway, since Conor Cruise O'Brien. And at least the Cruiser had some writing talent.

First Up

Snickers Man wrote:

Ray Bassett, the one fat cat bureaucrat on a massive public service pension from an EU country that the pro-Brexit zealots in Britain can't get enough of!!!

They must both be desperate to need each other!

statesaver

"I Wouldn't Vote Leave Again" Northern Irish Brexiteers Furious At Boris Johnson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80qK6teaYw&feature=youtu.be

Padre_Pio

statesaver wrote: »

"I Wouldn't Vote Leave Again" Northern Irish Brexiteers Furious At Boris Johnson

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h80qK6teaYw&feature=youtu.be

"We should have been told what Brexit was going to look like, and then vote for it".

Sorry mate, you WERE told. You were told it was unworkable and no matter what the outcome, the UK was going to be worse off.

We've been talking about Brexit for 8 years, the referendum is coming up on 5 years and it's only now the penny is dropping figuratively (and literally on the currency exchange) for Brexiters.

Lucy8080

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I'm not sure I follow, it is a very long standing fact of British political life. Why should anyone be especially disturbed by it now any more than they were 50 or 100 years ago?

Unionism seems to be disturbed by that arrangement ,right now. Carson made it plain 100 years ago.

One has to wonder about what lessons have been learned (by N.I. Unionists) in the intervening years.

Snickers Man

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Kate Hoey obviously wants to the troubles to return...

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1359525130859339780

It's long been known that Red and Orange don't mix.

She's in the finest tradition of the Socialist Harry Midgley, who started off in the Northern Ireland Labour Party and ended up as a particularly bigoted Ulster Unionist minister.

Ditto Baroness Hoey: once a Blairite Labour cabinet member, now indistinguishable from the nasty end of the DUP.

J Mysterio

https://twitter.com/gray/status/1375028977199370242?s=20

Doctor Roast

How's the EU vaccine rollout going...

Padre_Pio

Doctor Roast wrote: »

How's the EU vaccine rollout going...

You can track it here: https://covid19-vaccine-report.ecdc.europa.eu/

ExMachina1000

Doctor Roast wrote: »

How's the EU vaccine rollout going...

UK is top of class by a country mile.

Leroy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

UK is top of class by a country mile.

Yeah, for the moment and thanks in part to imports from the EU.

Which flies in the face of what the UK want. They, apparently, want to be able to control their laws and their borders. But are aghast that the EU want to do the same.

Eventually, as other vaccines rollout, the EU will catch up. And the UK still needs to make deals with the EU about services, but also NIP and trade in general.

Telling the EU to suck it up, together with the unabashed triumphalism, is not going to help in the long run.

The UK performance on Covid, including millions given to party donors, was terrible and thus it is not surprising that they are taking the successful vaccine rollout as a PR gold mine and pushing it for everything it is worth.

But as with everything with the UK, it is short term political gain they are focused on rather than long term YK wide benefit.

I wish the EU had done as good a job on vaccines as the UK, lessons need to be learned. And the EU attempts to resolve the issue appear ham fisted and poorly thought out.

But, if for no other reason than simply time, it will be resolved and then we will be back to the cote issues facing the UK because of Brexit.

ExMachina1000

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah
I wish the EU had done as good a job on vaccines as the UK

That is the main takeaway for me. UK are top of the class in vaccine rollout. That was all the poster asked

irelandrover

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

That is the main takeaway for me. UK are top of the class in vaccine rollout. That was all the poster asked

Thats not what the poster asked at all. They asked how the EU roll out was going and you responded with an answer about a different country.

Peregrinus

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

UK is top of class by a country mile.

Depends on how you measure the class.

If you look at how countries are doing at getting their population fully vaccinated - i.e. two jabs, with at least the appropriate spacing between them - UK (3.9% fully vaccinated) is outclassed by several countries, including Serbia (12.5%), Malta (10.2%), Turkey, Iceland, Demark, Switzerland, Hungary, Slovenia, Norway, Spain, Poland, Greece, Slovakia, Italy, Portugal, Estonia, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus, Romania, Belgium and Austria. It's level with Ireland (also 3.9%).

If you rank countries by total doses of vaccine administered, then the UK is way ahead. And it's also ahead if you rank them by total doses of vaccine administered, relative to size of population - the UK has administered 47,700 doses of vaccine per 100,000 people, which is more than twice as many as any EU country has managed. This is partly because they started earlier - their vaccination programme has been running for about 4 months, as opposed to 3 months for most EU countries and its partly because they have been very efficient and effective at organising delivery locally.

ExMachina1000

irelandrover wrote: »

Thats not what the poster asked at all. They asked how the EU roll out was going and you responded with an answer about a different country.

Actually you are right. I read it as UK rather than EU.
My bad. Disregard my comment

RobMc59

Peregrinus wrote: »

Depends on how you measure the class.

If you look at how countries are doing at getting their population fully vaccinated - i.e. two jabs, with at least the appropriate spacing between them - UK (3.9% fully vaccinated) is outclassed by several countries, including Serbia (12.5%), Malta (10.2%), Turkey, Iceland, Demark, Switzerland, Hungary, Slovenia, Norway, Spain, Poland, Greece, Slovakia, Italy, Portugal, Estonia, Germany, Sweden, Cyprus, Romania, Belgium and Austria. It's level with Ireland (also 3.9%).

If you rank countries by total doses of vaccine administered, then the UK is way ahead. And it's also ahead if you rank them by total doses of vaccine administered, relative to size of population - the UK has administered 47,700 doses of vaccine per 100,000 people, which is more than twice as many as any EU country has managed. This is partly because they started earlier - their vaccination programme has been running for about 4 months, as opposed to 3 months for most EU countries and its partly because they have been very efficient and effective at organising delivery locally.

What all this furore surrounding vaccine strategies has shown is a country acting on its own is able to adapt quickly to a developing situation whereas an unwieldy,centrally controlled bureaucracy isn't.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but individual European nations should have been allowed to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies as the combined approach has clearly left the EU at a disadvantage.

The Raging Bile Duct

RobMc59 wrote: »

What all this furore surrounding vaccine strategies has shown is a country acting on its own is able to adapt quickly to a developing situation whereas an unwieldy,centrally controlled burocreacy isn't.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but individual European nations should have been allowed to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies as the combined approach has clearly left the EU at a disadvantage.

They were allowed to negotiate separately if they wanted to but they all chose to come together under the EU vaccine scheme as it gave better bargaining power and equity of supply amongst the 27 countries. What Britain did in terms of vaccine procurement they could have still done if they were part of the EU.

timetogo1

RobMc59 wrote: »

What all this furore surrounding vaccine strategies has shown is a country acting on its own is able to adapt quickly to a developing situation whereas an unwieldy,centrally controlled bureaucracy isn't.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but individual European nations should have been allowed to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies as the combined approach has clearly left the EU at a disadvantage.

So would you say that Ireland would have the same power negotiating as Germany? I'm sure the vaccine companies would have just said sure Ireland, we'll get to you in June, ooooor do you want to pay more?
It gets pricey when each country negotiates by themselves. The UK have ordered 400m vaccines for their 60m population.

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

What all this furore surrounding vaccine strategies has shown is a country acting on its own is able to adapt quickly to a developing situation whereas an unwieldy,centrally controlled bureaucracy isn't.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but individual European nations should have been allowed to negotiate with the pharmaceutical companies as the combined approach has clearly left the EU at a disadvantage.

That is rubbish. First off, no EU country was excluded from acting alone, as is evidenced by the very fact that Britain did so whilst still in the transition phase.

So the very cornerstone of your argument fails.

Second, the big advantage to the EU is the combination of the individual countries. Again, Brexit has highlighted just how valuable that is when Ireland could actually stand up to the demands of the UK as a more than equal partner to the negotiations. Something the UK fought very hard to try to avoid.

And if the UK is this eutopia of decentralised non bureaucracy, how did Covid itself become such a terrible disaster within the UK.

AZ clearly pulled a fast one. on the EU, do you really think they would not have done so with Ireland, Malta etc?

Doctor Roast

They've made a dogs dinner of the roll out and are now fighting like ferrets in a sack to shift the blame, an ineffective bureaucracy strangled in its own red tape and trying to get countries to work in sync. Unelected Ursula compared the EU to a really big ship, yesterday Macron compared it to a diesel engine...

RobMc59

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is rubbish. First off, no EU country was excluded from acting alone, as is evidenced by the very fact that Britain did so whilst still in the transition phase.

So the very cornerstone of your argument fails.

Second, the big advantage to the EU is the combination of the individual countries. Again, Brexit has highlighted just how valuable that is when Ireland could actually stand up to the demands of the UK as a more than equal partner to the negotiations. Something the UK fought very hard to try to avoid.

And if the UK is this eutopia of decentralised non bureaucracy, how did Covid itself become such a terrible disaster within the UK.

AZ clearly pulled a fast one. on the EU, do you really think they would not have done so with Ireland, Malta etc?

This may be an unpopular comment but Ireland probably would have been better aligning its vaccine strategy with the UK ,which would have resulted in a sucessful British isles/North Atlantic archipelago approach.

Leroy42

Doctor Roast wrote: »

They've made a dogs dinner of the roll out and are now fighting like ferrets in a sack to shift the blame, an ineffective bureaucracy strangled in its own red tape and trying to get countries to work in sync. Unelected Ursula compared the EU to a really big ship, yesterday Macron compared it to a diesel engine...

So exactly like the UK government in terms of Covid itself!

The point is that it isn't anything inherent in either the UK or the EU that lead to this situation. A series of missteps, misjudgements and lack of proper management has led to the situation that the EU finds itself in, with a large dollop of pretty shady business practice by AZ.

But at no point does this mean anything in terms of Brexit. Neither the death tolls from Covid, or the vaccine rollout, have anything to do with Brexit or the lack of anything positive to come from it.

The UK, having nothing but bad news, issues and the need to break international law, are banking on the feel-good factor from winning this 'battle' with the EU to avoid real examination of both the handling of Covid and Brexit.

And it it very much working. People are happy to see UK getting one over the EU, that is more than enough to keep them from actually questioning the realities they face.