Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Nqp15hhu

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Tbh, I'd rather follow what we're doing at the moment in terms of trying to fully vaccinate people as quick as we can rather than half vaccinate people and run the risk of having trouble when it comes to the second dose because of potential supply issues.

Yes, and Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom is also ahead of the Republic in doing that.

Leroy42

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Don't write gross lies about the United Kingdom if you're not prepared to provide facts to back it up.

It is a discussion forum, after all.

The UK gave us a bail out loan, ostensibly to cover their own banks at inflated interest rate and early repayment penalty clause.

They tried to sideline Ireland in Brexit, refused to take our concerns seriously and then attempted to stronger arm us into siding with them.

They have plenty of vaccine but have offered us nothing.

But yeah other than that, UK can't wait to help us.

Nqp15hhu

Leroy42 wrote: »

The UK gave us a bail out loan, ostensibly to cover their own banks at inflated interest rate and early repayment penalty clause.

They tried to sideline Ireland in Brexit, refused to take our concerns seriously and then attempted to stronger arm us into siding with them.

They have plenty of vaccine but have offered us nothing.

But yeah other than that, UK can't wait to help us.

Your country did very well out of Brexit. To the detriment of the people of NI.

The Raging Bile Duct

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Your country did very well out of Brexit. To the detriment of the people of NI.

So Brexit was actually instigated for our benefit?

Nqp15hhu

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

So Brexit was actually instigated for our benefit?

No but you milked the situation and extracted more than you had previously.

The Raging Bile Duct

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No but you milked the situation and extracted more than you had previously.

I never realized we were being so nefarious to the plucky British underdogs.

Padre_Pio

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Your country did very well out of Brexit. To the detriment of the people of NI.

To the detriment of people in the UK you mean.

Lets not forget the BoJo and Arlene should have the best interests of NI at heart and any detriment should be squarely blamed at them

Nqp15hhu

Padre_Pio wrote: »

To the detriment of people in the UK you mean.

Lets not forget the BoJo and Arlene should have the best interests of NI at heart and any detriment should be squarely blamed at them

No, people in Northern Ireland have been negatively affected by the NI Protocol.

Padre_Pio

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No, people in Northern Ireland have been negatively affected by the NI Protocol.

I agree with you, but I don't see how this is Irelands or the EUs fault.

The Irish sea border and NI protocol was BoJos idea. He won the 2019 election off the back of it.

PeadarCo

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No but you milked the situation and extracted more than you had previously.

Well the people arguably most responsible for North Irelands current situation are the DUP. The DUP decided to opt for a hard brexit and went into coalition with a Conservative party that was and is being led by English nationalists. Given the DUPs history with Sinn Fein and opposition to nationalists within North Ireland it's very strange that they went into government with Boris Johnson. A person who is a God send for Scottish and Welsh nationalists and who seems inadvertently to doing nearly everything possible to break up the UK. For a party that supports the UK as a unitary state it has been a stupid and self defeating move.


The Irish government would have preferred the UK to stay in the EU single market and customs Union. That would have been the ideal post Brexit situation for the Irish government. A hard Brexit like what we have now is the exact opposite of what Ireland has wanted. If the UK had opted to stay in the EU customs Union and single market there would be no need for any border checks.

Nqp15hhu

PeadarCo wrote: »

Well the people arguably most responsibilitie for North Irelands current situation are the DUP. The DUP decided to opt for a hard brexit and went into coalition with a Conservative party that was and is being led by English nationalists. Given the DUPs history with Sinn Fein and opposition to nationalists within North Ireland it's very strange that they went into government with Boris Johnson. A person who is a God send for Scottish and Welsh nationalists and who seems inadvertently to doing nearly everything possible to break up the UK. For a party that supports the UK as a unitary state it has been a stupid and self defeating move.


The Irish government would have preferred the UK to stay in the EU single market and customs Union. That would have been the ideal post Brexit situation for the Irish government. A hard Brexit like what we have now is the exact opposite of what Ireland has wanted. If the UK had opted to stay in the EU customs Union and single market there would be no need for any border checks.

Neale Richmond amongst others goad Unionists and continually request the tough administration of the Protocol despite its horrible impacts.

Which btw has impacted us. I worked in retail when it was introduced, the first day was a sad day indeed, completely empty stock room where the previous day it was full.

Nothing to laugh it, now we are having the same issues as we go into April. M&S as an example did not stock its chicken this week or next week. I do not think that this is a good thing and all sides should be working to enable ease of trade between GB and NI, instead of using us as a battering ram.

PeadarCo

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Neale Richmond amongst others goad Unionists and continually request the tough administration of the Protocol despite its horrible impacts.

Which btw has impacted us. I worked in retail when it was introduced, the first day was a sad day indeed, completely empty stock room where the previous day it was full.

Nothing to laugh it, now we are having the same issues as we go into April. M&S as an example did not stock its chicken this week or next week. I do not think that this is a good thing and all sides should be working to enable ease of trade between GB and NI, instead of using us as a battering ram.

But this is what the DUP wanted. If you look at the consequences of the DUPs actions under the Johnson lead government that was in coalition with the DUP, the DUP acted like republicans. They did more to increase the prospects of a united Ireland than any nationalist party has done in the last 100 years. If the DUP had used their influence to support a soft Brexit there would have been no talk of any controls in North Ireland due to a soft Brexit ie UK still in EU single market and customs Union and less talk of Scottish independence/UK breaking up in general.

The UK needs a trade deal with the EU full stop. The English nationalists who's support Boris Johnson relies for support don't give a dam about Northern Ireland and that's been shown in many opinion polls. The DUP and North Ireland in general were always going to have to deal with that reality. The reality being any deal would be on the EUs terms as has proven to be the case.

030802

The consequences of Brexit lay at the door of the people who voted for Brexit.

Leroy42

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Neale Richmond amongst others goad Unionists and continually request the tough administration of the Protocol despite its horrible impacts.

Which btw has impacted us. I worked in retail when it was introduced, the first day was a sad day indeed, completely empty stock room where the previous day it was full.

Nothing to laugh it, now we are having the same issues as we go into April. M&S as an example did not stock its chicken this week or next week. I do not think that this is a good thing and all sides should be working to enable ease of trade between GB and NI, instead of using us as a battering ram.

I welcome all sides looking to solve the issues. For too long it has only been Ireland and the EU that have been taking it seriously. Unfortunately for NI, and by extension Ireland, the previous UK, which is now GB only, decided that BRexit was worth more to Britain that NI was to the union.

That decision lies 100% with Johnson.

The issues you allude to could be resolved easily. Britain just needs to choose the options available to it. ATM, it has decided that the ability to change its standards (although none it can actually think of) is worth more than it citizens having access to food distribution.

The UK and EU signed a deal, there is no work on both sides. The fairest thing the EU can do is to stick to the deal that the UK negotiated. If the UK want a different deal then it really is up to them to put forward the changes they want and what they are prepared to deal to get them.

timetogo1

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Your country did very well out of Brexit. To the detriment of the people of NI.

Ireland has been impacted by Brexit. Plenty of jobs have been lost. We didn't vote for it or want it. Once the UK voted for it, it was the responsibility of our government to make the best out of it that we could.
It was the responsibility of the UK government too for the UK. The UK gov seemed to go the more populist rather than pragmatic route. That's entirely the UKs responsibility. So go moaning to them.
The DUP had a big advantage initially, they could have taken the advantage they had, but they squandered it for money. That seems to be the DUP way.

People are blaming the EU for the NI Protocol, which was proposed by Johnson, after the DUP said No to the Backstop, which would have resulted in no problems for NI.

These people are not worth listening to.

Seth Brundle

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No, people in Northern Ireland have been negatively affected by the NI Protocol.

The NIP puts the people of NI in a better position than they would be without it. They could have been in an even better position but it was the DUP who opposed that proposal.
Remind us, how did Johnson describe the NIP to the world immediately after signing it?

Also remind us how the people of NI are being negatively affected by the NIP. Has this anything to do with the UK not preparing for the end of the Transition Period and not implementing everything needed for being a third country?

Leroy42

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No, people in Northern Ireland have been negatively affected by the NI Protocol.

Wrong. NI has done, relative to the rest of the UK very well out of NIP. They still have FoM across EU. Open access to EU market. They can attract FDI with unfettered access to EU.

Of course there are negatives, but like Ireland they need to move their focus away from GB and towards Dublin and the EU.

Of course for many that is unacceptable. But Brexit as a whole is a negative, NI have been given a less negative outcome.

While DUP claim its all a disaster, think about fishermen around Britain who have been decimated because of it. Export companies close to closing because of it. Domestic companies that will suffer because of lack of border controls. Students losing Erasmus and the ability to work abroad for summer. Pensioners no longer able to travel and live freely in Spain.

NI needs to change its distribution channels from Britain to Dublin. Thats it.

It is ironic that the DUP fought so hard to get away from the controlling hand of the EU, only now to be under the control of London who are forcing them into these terrible situations.

The EU gave them freedoms and London is taking them away, but its the EU who are to blame

RobMc59

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

I never realized we were being so nefarious to the plucky British underdogs.

Ireland can't be blamed for taking advantage of the situation but shouldn't whinge and blame the UK about the poor fishing quotas brussels gave them or how the UK vaccine strategy has outperformed the EU.

Donald Trump

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Neale Richmond amongst others goad Unionists and continually request the tough administration of the Protocol despite its horrible impacts.

Which btw has impacted us. I worked in retail when it was introduced, the first day was a sad day indeed, completely empty stock room where the previous day it was full.

Nothing to laugh it, now we are having the same issues as we go into April. M&S as an example did not stock its chicken this week or next week. I do not think that this is a good thing and all sides should be working to enable ease of trade between GB and NI, instead of using us as a battering ram.

We were told that people who voted for Brexit knew what they were voting for. Brexit means Brexit.



Now they have it. So they should be happy and stop whinging about it. Because whinging about it makes it look like they didn't actually know what they were voting for.

Leroy42

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ireland can't be blamed for taking advantage of the situation but shouldn't whinge and blame the UK about the poor fishing quotas brussels gave them or how the UK vaccine strategy has outperformed the EU.

Ireland are perfectly entitled to lobby to greater fishing quotas. That is what being a member is about. The EU didn't give us the quatos, it was agreed that that was the best outcome for all concerned given the negative impacts of Brexit.

Ireland fully understands the trade offs, the negative impact of BRexit, and have been warning he UK about it form the very start.

So lets compare the daily complaints in the UK media, the calls to trash the agreement, the breaking of international law by unilaterally extended transition periods with the issues being raised by Ireland. The DUP are almost daily complaining about the NIP, the fishermen are complaining about loss of access, exporters, musicians, pensioners in Spain, the ist goes on and on and on.

Which of the two parties is whinging more?

ExMachina1000

Leroy42 wrote: »

Ireland are perfectly entitled to lobby to greater fishing quotas. That is what being a member is about. The EU didn't give us the quatos, it was agreed that that was the best outcome for all concerned given the negative impacts of Brexit.

Ireland fully understands the trade offs, the negative impact of BRexit, and have been warning he UK about it form the very start.

So lets compare the daily complaints in the UK media, the calls to trash the agreement, the breaking of international law by unilaterally extended transition periods with the issues being raised by Ireland. The DUP are almost daily complaining about the NIP, the fishermen are complaining about loss of access, exporters, musicians, pensioners in Spain, the ist goes on and on and on.

Which of the two parties is whinging more?

The UK are whining more. They want to keep pushing for more and more.
Ireland says nothing and takes what it is given.

You paint wanting more as a bad thing. We all want more but only those who look for it tend to get it.

The definition of ambition = I want more

Leroy42

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The UK are whining more. They want to keep pushing for more and more.
Ireland says nothing and takes what it is given.

You paint wanting more as a bad thing. We all want more but only those who look for it tend to get it.

The definition of ambition = I want more

I was responded to a post that Ireland shouldn't be whinging.

No problem with UK looking for more, except that they shouldn't have signed a deal, which they themselves now seem to consider, is poor.

So what are they going to offer in return. Now that they have left, their borders are completely open, and they don't actually know what they want save for getting back what they threw away, it is just whinging.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

a country acting on its own is able to adapt quickly to a developing situation whereas an unwieldy,centrally controlled bureaucracy isn't.

There is no such thing as a country 'acting on its own' and the smaller the country gets the more true that statement is.

The AZ vaccine has fifteen countries in its supply chain. Britain was in the EU when it got its contract for vaccines. Britain is also still very much within the manufacturing ecosystem of the EU.

I'd imagine the EU will seek to ring-fence pharmaceutical manufacturing in times of crisis in the future if it's possible.

Risteard81

Brexit is a positive thing. The so-called "EU" is the enemy of the Irish Republic and all free Nations. It must be eradicated permanently.

Seth Brundle

Risteard81 wrote: »

Brexit is a positive thing. The so-called "EU" is the enemy of the Irish Republic and all free Nations. It must be eradicated permanently.

I see that the schools are off for Easter.

ancapailldorcha

Risteard81 wrote: »

Brexit is a positive thing. The so-called "EU" is the enemy of the Irish Republic and all free Nations. It must be eradicated permanently.

Why is it the "so-called "EU""?

Peregrinus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Why is it the "so-called "EU""?

Why is it the "Irish Republic" as opposed to "Ireland", the name of the state, or "Republic of Ireland", the description of the state? Why is "Nations" given an arbitrary capital letter?

These are not helpful questions to ask. Rationality, coherence, even sense, are not the strong suits in this particular post.

ancapailldorcha

Peregrinus wrote: »

Why is it the "Irish Republic" as opposed to "Ireland", the name of the state, or "Republic of Ireland", the description of the state? Why is "Nations" given an arbitrary capital letter?

These are not helpful questions to ask. Rationality, coherence, even sense, are not the strong suits in this particular post.

The poster is referring to the EU as "the so-called EU". I would like to know why but I'm not expecting a high quality answer.

Padre_Pio

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The poster is referring to the EU as "the so-called EU". I would like to know why but I'm not expecting a high quality answer.

Based on the posters opinions on COVID and lockdown, I would say you're correct.