Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It's like everything else, it's all drama and never materialises to anything. The EU is now saying the deal can be done this year and as usual is all over the shop. Thing is with the EU is not to talk to them but to talk at them, things move faster then.

Anyways, No time for long winded posts, I had a hetic weekend of brexit freedom parties, six nations and superbowl. Great weekend.

What are you basing this on? The recent evidence, WA, showed that all the tough talking from TM, her cabinet and then Johnson and his cabinet amounted to going with exactly what the EU wanted in the first place, but cost the UK massive amounts of time and, lest we not forget because even Johnson admits this, massive loss of investment (although of course Johnson claims this is not lost, the money is just waiting to be spent).

cryptocurrency

Watching Barnier now. This is good, Boris needs to double down and tell him to get stuffed. No Deal!!!

This guy is completely delusional, this speech is gold.

If anyone is watching Barnier on the Telegraph's YT, you can put the volume balance to the right so you can hear the translator more easily.

Boredstiff666

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Watching Barnier now. This is good, Boris needs to double down and tell him to get stuffed. No Deal!!!

This guy is completely delusional, this speech is gold.

Mate your wasting your time here. You are probably talking to multiple accounts all spouting same message and agreeing with each other all just by chance coming on at exactly the same time.

They are Brit haters who just want to talk them down but do not have the brains to understand that if the UK goes down, then so does the whole of the EU including Ireland.

They say this will happen and everybody will desert the UK. But they just expect the Uk to sit there and do nothing. It just ain't gonna happen. They may if things were bad even take Ireland's multi's from them with even bigger subs than they get here if things were so bad. But the handful of anti's here haven't worked that one out yet.

They just have visions of British people dressed in rags begging on the street for food and to be allowed back into the glorious EU.

Fella's .... It just will never ever happen. Different kind of people to Ireland with a different mind set to how things should and will be done.

Leroy42

Yet they have some of the most deprived areas in the EU?

It has nothing to do with Brit bashing, although Brexiteers seem to revel in bashing every other country, but about realities.

Why should we stand idly by while the UK try to take everything we worked so hard so? Why should we allow the UK to benefit from our club when they dislike it so much?

I just watched Barnier's part on trade. Seems reasonable to me. He's offering full access with no quotes or tariffs, and a lot of services access as well, with conditions. Not sure how anything he said is "delusional" and warrants an outrageous threat of No Deal before negotiations even begin.

Is is really so jarring that the EU would require safeguards if giving the UK what it wants? It seems to be.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

I just watched Barnier's part on trade. Seems reasonable to me. He's offering full access with no quotes or tariffs, and a lot of services access as well, with conditions. Not sure how anything he said is "delusional" and warrants an outrageous threat of No Deal before negotiations even begin.

Is is really so jarring that the EU would require safeguards if giving the UK what it wants? It seems to be.

Boris is on now.

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yet they have some of the most deprived areas in the EU?

It has nothing to do with Brit bashing, although Brexiteers seem to revel in bashing every other country, but about realities.

Why should we stand idly by while the UK try to take everything we worked so hard so? Why should we allow the UK to benefit from our club when they dislike it so much?

Now thats really insulting to British people. Where do you think those billions came from that Irish people have been pocketing for 47 years?

Boredstiff666

Deleted User wrote: »

I just watched Barnier's part on trade. Seems reasonable to me.

You dont say.:rolleyes:

Leroy42

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Now thats really insulting to British people. Where do you think those billions came from that Irish people have been pocketing for 47 years?

What is? The deprived areas? It's a fact, nothing to do with me.

As for the billions, some of it came from the UK for sure, and resulted in a much more prosperous neighbour. Doubt companies like Tesco thought it was a bad deal!

cryptocurrency

boris nailing it

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is? The deprived areas? It's a fact, nothing to do with me.

As for the billions, some of it came from the UK for sure, and resulted in a much more prosperous neighbour. Doubt companies like Tesco thought it was a bad deal!

Ireland have full control over what Tesco does. I am not talking about the UK. I am on about how you think the UK shouldnt be able to walk away with anything or succeed at anything when you have had your hands out taking their money from the EU for nearly 50 years.

Without the UK money Ireland would have still been in the Bog. But you think they should be made to suffer for not wanting to be ruled by others anymore.

Leroy42

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Ireland have full control over what Tesco does. I am not talking about the UK. I am on about how you think the UK shouldnt be able to walk away with anything or succeed at anything when you have had your hands out taking their money from the EU for nearly 50 years.

Without the UK money Ireland would have still been in the Bog. But you think they should be made to suffer for not wanting to be ruled by others anymore.

Wow, so you want to call people for Brit bashing and come out with that nonsense.

UK had 800 years to help us, it wasn't until we joined the EU that we started to make good but your belief is that it is because the UK gave us money?

I love the fact your position on the likes of Tesco is that Ireland had the choice, yet according to Brexiteers the problem with the EU was loss of sovereignty.

So which is it?

And even if you don't care how Tesco made their money, don't you understand the link between Ireland being more prosperous and the UK doing better because of it?

So it wasn't simply a case of UK spending billions with no return. They made significant gains out of it.

Tea Shock

Deleted User wrote: »

Nissan > Reality check for Remainers

You mean the Nissan thing....where closing the EU plants and keeping the UK one going is one of "several" models they are considering - but which is the only model that the UK press are widely reporting?

A model which by the way was devised before their new CEO Makoto Uchida was even in position!

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wow, so you want to call people for Brit bashing and come out with that nonsense.

UK had 800 years to help us, it wasn't until we joined the EU that we started to make good but your belief is that it is because the UK gave us money?

I love the fact your position on the likes of Tesco is that Ireland had the choice, yet according to Brexiteers the problem with the EU was loss of sovereignty.

So which is it?

And even if you don't care how Tesco made their money, don't you understand the link between Ireland being more prosperous and the UK doing better because of it?

So it wasn't simply a case of UK spending billions with no return. They made significant gains out of it.

Regardless you just basically said they shouldnt have anything or succeed at anything. Why?....You are a Brit hater.

You want to talk them down at every oppertunity. they aint gonna bow down to anyone and if cornered they will fight.

The uk going down or fighting back is not going to be in Irelands favour and so you are being self defeating in your own wishes.

Leroy42

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Regardless you just basically said they shouldnt have anything or succeed at anything. Why?....You are a Brit hater.

You want to talk them down at every oppertunity. they aint gonna bow down to anyone and if cornered they will fight.

The uk going down or fighting back is not going to be in Irelands favour and so you are being self defeating in your own wishes.

No I'm not. I'm saying the EU shouldn't deprive itself just to help the UK. It's the same on both sides.

I don't expect the UK to care what happens to the EU, so why shouldn't the EU look to protect itself?

It's not Brit bashing its self interest. Not sure why you consider the UK determination for self interest as a noble and worthwhile endeavour whilst the EU doing the same is brit bashing.

As for the UK going down not in our interests, totally agree. But that is why Leo worked hard to get Johnson to make a deal. Ireland, you seem to have forgotten, are the ones that got it done. We reached out to try to help the UK see sense.

Not that we got any thanks. But we never wanted any of this, worked hard to limit the damage, but it's out of our hands and it's a UK decision. But giving up on everything that has brought us to this point doesn't seem to be a viable option.

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why should we stand idly by while the UK try to take everything we worked so hard so? Why should we allow the UK to benefit from our club when they dislike it so much?

Because they were a major contributor for nearly 50 years paying in hundreds of billions which could have been spent in their own country.

Because its called trade/business. Whereas you just think that the EU should have access to the Uk's business but not the other way around.

It is a bolshy statement to make from a country which always has it's handout for part UK money and feels that you owe them nothing but spite.

The stark difference between Barnier's speech and Johnson's is that Johnson's ideas are detrimental to the EU. He wants an FTA, no regulatory alignment, and state aid, on the EU's doorstep. What Barnier is proposing does not put the UK at risk. It only affects its trade with others.

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

No I'm not. I'm saying the EU shouldn't deprive itself just to help the UK. .......They want no help from the the EU they want nothing but trade only

I don't expect the UK to care what happens to the EU, so why shouldn't the EU look to protect itself?.....From who the UK. The whole of Europe is littered with the graves of British and Commonwealth including Irish people sorting out their ****e. None of it was ever the Brits fault. The EU countries just either dragged them in or directly threatened them. The UK has never done same to them so are no threat at all.

It's not Brit bashing its self interest. Not sure why you consider the UK determination for self interest as a noble and worthwhile endeavour whilst the EU doing the same is brit bashing........Yes you are Brit bashing. All the UK is doing is walking away and letting you carry on. They are the ones who are getting nowt from the EU after paying so much into it. They are only looking for trade and nothing else. You want them to get nothing and suffer. Your own posts say that.

cryptocurrency

Deleted User wrote: »

The stark difference between Barnier's speech and Johnson's is that Johnson's ideas are detrimental to the EU. He wants an FTA, no regulatory alignment, and state aid, on the EU's doorstep. What Barnier is proposing does not put the UK at risk. It only affects its trade with others.

He rightfully pointed out the EU's hypocrisy. Boris is right, call them out.

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

They may if things were bad even take Ireland's multi's from them with even bigger subs than they get here if things were so bad. But the handful of anti's here haven't worked that one out yet.

If tax incentives were all they wanted, there are plenty of British run tax havens out there for them to choose from. Much of the multi-national sector in Ireland is here because we offer access to the EU market. The very last place those business will want to go is the UK becasue it does not offer the market access they want.

Leroy42

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Because they were a major contributor for nearly 50 years paying in hundreds of billions which could have been spent in their own country.

Because its called trade/business. Whereas you just think that the EU should have access to the Uk's business but not the other way around.

It is a bolshy statement to make from a country which always has it's handout for part UK money and feels that you owe them nothing but spite.

In other words, Ireland should know it place.

You really need to get over this self pity. The UK should be able to stand on its own, and understand that others will do the same.

The UK are owed nothing. They freely joined and repeated the benefits of EU membership. Crying about the membership fee at this point comes across as childish and petty.

Imreoir2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

They say this will happen and everybody will desert the UK.

They just have visions of British people dressed in rags begging on the street for food and to be allowed back into the glorious EU.

Fella's .... It just will never ever happen. Different kind of people to Ireland with a different mind set to how things should and will be done.

Sorry mate, but this is simply not true. No one here other than yourself has been suggesting such guff. You are arguing against a strawman.

cryptocurrency

Australian style trade agreement. Aussie +++

Dytalus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

They are the ones who are getting nowt from the EU after paying so much into it. They are only looking for trade and nothing else. You want them to get nothing and suffer. Your own posts say that.[/COLOR]

First off, nobody wants them to suffer. The EU wants a trade deal, but quite obviously also want to protect their own industries and economies. So naturally the EU asks for a level playing field, in return for free trade. The UK is equally in their own right to say no. This is how negotiations happen: one side offers one thing, asks for something else in return. The other side counters. Repeat until an agreement is reached on one or the other or something in-between, or nothing happens. The UK is under no obligation to agree to the EU's requests, and likewise the EU is under no obligation to accept the UK's.

But this idea that the EU owes the UK anything? Nope. Absolute garbage. The money the UK paid into the EU was a membership fee, and while they were a member they got enormous benefits: the largest collection of trade agreements in human history; free access to a massive market 450 million people strong; access to EU investment funds, agricultural subsidies, and regional development funds (for all those worryingly underdeveloped regions in the UK which London was not providing).

The UK has gotten the rewards for membership, and is no longer a dues paying member of the club. The EU 'owes' nothing - while they have repeatedly said they want to maintain a close friendship with the UK, the Member States can not do so while sacrificing their own well being. Why should Germany, France, Poland, or Ireland put the UK's wishes first ahead of their own? Especially when you're saying the UK was right to leave so that they could put their own interests first?

cryptocurrency

cryptocurrency wrote: »

He rightfully pointed out the EU's hypocrisy. Boris is right, call them out.

You mean that because the UK won't require the EU to adhere to some of its standards which are higher, it is hypocritical for the EU to require the UK to adhere to its standards? All that stuff about paternity care etc. he was going on about?

AllForIt

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

.... They are only looking for trade and nothing else. You want them to get nothing and suffer. Your own posts say that.

It's extraordinary that not only do you hear that kind of thing coming from non-uk countries but over the last weeks especially remainers within the UK, UK citizens, have been expressing the exact same sentiment...presumably just so they can be proven to be right.

Boredstiff666

Leroy42 wrote: »

In other words, Ireland should know it place.

You really need to get over this self pity. The UK should be able to stand on its own, and understand that others will do the same.

The UK are owed nothing. They freely joined and repeated the benefits of EU membership. Crying about the membership fee at this point comes across as childish and petty.

Nobody but you has said any of the things in your post.......This is just trying to distract and take away what you said earlier.

cryptocurrency

Dytalus wrote: »

First off, nobody wants them to suffer. The EU wants a trade deal, but quite obviously also want to protect their own industries and economies. So naturally the EU asks for a level playing field, in return for free trade. The UK is equally in their own right to say no. This is how negotiations happen: one side offers one thing, asks for something else in return. The other side counters. Repeat until an agreement is reached on one or the other or something in-between, or nothing happens. The UK is under no obligation to agree to the EU's requests, and likewise the EU is under no obligation to accept the UK's.

But this idea that the EU owes the UK anything? Nope. Absolute garbage. The money the UK paid into the EU was a membership fee, and while they were a member they got enormous benefits: the largest collection of trade agreements in human history; free access to a massive market 450 million people strong; access to EU investment funds, agricultural subsidies, and regional development funds (for all those worryingly underdeveloped regions in the UK which London was not providing).

The UK has gotten the rewards for membership, and is no longer a dues paying member of the club. The EU 'owes' nothing - while they have repeatedly said they want to maintain a close friendship with the UK, the Member States can not do so while sacrificing their own well being. Why should Germany, France, Poland, or Ireland put the UK's wishes first ahead of their own? Especially when you're saying the UK was right to leave so that they could put their own interests first?

Thats all nice words and i am sure heart felt but just like Barnier today, it means nothing.

UK has laid out it's stall and it's nothing like the fantasy going on in Michael Barniers head.

Boredstiff666

Dytalus wrote: »

First off, nobody wants them to suffer. The EU wants a trade deal, but quite obviously also want to protect their own industries and economies. So naturally the EU asks for a level playing field, in return for free trade. The UK is equally in their own right to say no. This is how negotiations happen: one side offers one thing, asks for something else in return. The other side counters. Repeat until an agreement is reached on one or the other or something in-between, or nothing happens. The UK is under no obligation to agree to the EU's requests, and likewise the EU is under no obligation to accept the UK's.

But this idea that the EU owes the UK anything? Nope. Absolute garbage. The money the UK paid into the EU was a membership fee, and while they were a member they got enormous benefits: the largest collection of trade agreements in human history; free access to a massive market 450 million people strong; access to EU investment funds, agricultural subsidies, and regional development funds (for all those worryingly underdeveloped regions in the UK which London was not providing).

The UK has gotten the rewards for membership, and is no longer a dues paying member of the club. The EU 'owes' nothing - while they have repeatedly said they want to maintain a close friendship with the UK, the Member States can not do so while sacrificing their own well being. Why should Germany, France, Poland, or Ireland put the UK's wishes first ahead of their own? Especially when you're saying the UK was right to leave so that they could put their own interests first?

All of my post was in direct to Leroy 42's and what he said earlier and nothing else. So you are banging along the wrong road.