Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

sondagefaux

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Would love to see the studies/evidence for this claim.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/05/07/uk-productivity-grows-strongly-still-lags-behind-europe/

https://www.primeeconomics.org/articles/o91sdlu312b90filbobylfincxj5sb

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/24/why-is-uks-productivity-still-behind-that-of-other-major-economies

sondagefaux

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well you dont know what I am or where my family come from do you?

Don't know, don't care.

Boredstiff666

sondagefaux wrote: »

Don't know, don't care.

You should cus I might come and live next door to you.

Boredstiff666

Come on Beasty put an end to it or just ban me or something.

sondagefaux

Aegir wrote: »

So does a level playing field work with ways, or will the Eu continue to turn a blind eye to blatant tax evasion facilitated by member states?

Will we seen a new approach now one of the architects of tax evasion is no longer president of the commission?

The Commission had already taken legal action against several member states, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands among them, while Juncker was in office.

It also launched an investigation into every single member states' implementation of their tax laws, Luxembourg included, to see if any unfair advantages had been given by national tax authorities to certain companies, again while Juncker was in office.

sondagefaux

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

You should cus I might come and live next door to you.

I might be living in your attic as I type...

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No I didnt. I had actually singled out part of a post and replied to that item made. But of course nobody reads that do they. They just pick out what I put as if it was a stand alone post.

Didn't do what? Didn't post the following

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112459384&postcount=845

"The Germans and especially the French hate the UK and always have. whether its to do with the past when Britain defeated them or? I dont know. The old Spanish do as well.

The French and Spanish were always trying to invade Britain. Maybe it stems from there?

Maybe they just see Britain as the only country which can get its act together and compete with them?

Can't really blame the UK for all that. It was them trying to take over Britain or dragging Britain into their silly little wars they were always having"

If these countries hate the English why are there so many English people living in these countries, especially retired English people in Spain, without being constantly harassed etc?
Edit: Harassed not harnessed

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

Didn't do what? Didn't post the following

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112459384&postcount=845

"The Germans and especially the French hate the UK and always have. whether its to do with the past when Britain defeated them or? I dont know. The old Spanish do as well.

The French and Spanish were always trying to invade Britain. Maybe it stems from there?

Maybe they just see Britain as the only country which can get its act together and compete with them?

Can't really blame the UK for all that. It was them trying to take over Britain or dragging Britain into their silly little wars they were always having"

If these countries hate the English why are there so many English people living in these countries, especially retired English people in Spain, without being constantly harnessed etc?

You mean harrassed i think.

Some of them are. Just as same English living in Ireland will get same and vice versa.

Some of it may be justified....who knows.

People go to live in other countries for a million reasons besides the obvious like work.

Same with me.

Boredstiff666

sondagefaux wrote: »

I might be living in your attic as I type...

Feck thats were I hide my money.

Beasty

DubInMeath wrote: »

Fairly sure Beasty is English,

Just a correction - Yorkshire is where I hail from....

Boredstiff666

Beasty wrote: »

Just a correction - Yorkshire is where I hail from....

That explains lots of things. Don't worry Beasty. I am sure they will find a cure for it one day.

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

You mean harrassed i think.

Some of them are. Just as same English living in Ireland will get same and vice versa.

Some of it may be justified....who knows.

People go to live in other countries for a million reasons besides the obvious like work.

Same with me.

None of my English friends get any ****e for being English from what they tell me and that is even goes back to when I worked security in Dublin during the 90s with an ex squadie. He did get a beating or two for playing around with married women however being the chancer that he was.

Can't see why anyone would stay somewhere that they are getting constantly harassed, even for work.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

Just a correction - Yorkshire is where I hail from....

Ah don't be braunging lad :-)

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

None of my English friends get any ****e for being English from what they tell me and that is even goes back to when I worked security in Dublin during the 90s with an ex squadie. He did get a beating or two for playing around with married women however being the chancer that he was.

Can't see why anyone would stay somewhere that they are getting constantly harassed, even for work.

I never have from any Irish in 25 years. I have walked in on conversations on such and deliberately took the piss which more or less embarrassed them. I always say they should send these f*ckin foreigners back home. They do agree with me for that split second before they realise.:D

I know people who went to live in Spain years back and they got loads off the locals out in the country areas. same in some parts of France.

One famous or semi famous man now dead said he moved back to the UK because of anti-English in Ireland. But to be honest I thought he was a prat.

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

Ah don't be braunging lad :-)

Yorkshires in Lancashire isn't it? :rolleyes:

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I never have from any Irish in 25 years. I have walked in on conversations on such and deliberately took the piss which more or less embarrassed them. I always say they should send these f*ckin foreigners back home. They do agree with me for that split second before they realise.:D

I know people who went to live in Spain years back and they got loads off the locals out in the country areas. same in some parts of France.

One famous or semi famous man now dead said he moved back to the UK because of anti-English in Ireland. But to be honest I thought he was a prat.

Did security in Glasgow for a while and got some hassle but nothing to be unexpected from people your not letting in etc.

After a career change, worked down in England for a year and apart from the odd night out when someone would hear my accent and try to get smart, I only had issues with one guy in the office and sorted that quickly, but overall found most people to be grand.

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Yorkshires in Lancashire isn't it? :rolleyes:

Yorkshire girl I used to work with always said it to the lads on a Monday morning when overhearing their conversation about their weekend exploits, so always assumed it to be a Yorkshire saying, then again she said champion all the time too and I used to hear that every two seconds in Newcastle.

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

Did security in Glasgow for a while and got some hassle but nothing to be unexpected from people your not letting in etc.

After a career change, worked down in England for a year and apart from the odd night out when someone would hear my accent and try to get smart, I only had issues with one guy in the office and sorted that quickly, but overall found most people to be grand.

I won't go into detail but I grew up with Irish lads. My first girlfriend was from an Irish family. It was in really bad times. We never thought of them as Irish or different than us. They were just 'those mates, girls' we knew. Besides nicknames which was just taking the piss. There was nothing even on really bad days.

I laugh my nuts off over here when some start on boards. They always refer to a a quote which actually came from a famous Irish actor who at the time was an IRA supporter. Point is most people have no idea where the quote comes from.

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

Yorkshire girl I used to work with always said it to the lads on a Monday morning when overhearing their conversation about their weekend exploits, so always assumed it to be a Yorkshire saying, then again she said champion all the time too and I used to hear that every two seconds in Newcastle.

No you miss the point but Beasty won't. I was taking the piss.

Yorkshire people do not like Lancashire people.

J Mysterio

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No dont report them. I find it very entertaining how the Brits are to blame for everything wrong in Ireland.

Sorry, no.

The Brits are to blame for everything wrong in Ireland during their occupation of Ireland. See banning of religion, language, games. See famine, land grabbing and mismanagement. Also the legacy costs of the occupation in terms of how they stunted the development of this country and its occupants. I fail to see how that is 'entertaining'.

But as a populace, we have 'got over it'. In fact the English (it was England who subjugated us, just as it is England which dominates the UK and drives Brexit) Irish relationship was never better prior to Brexit. Cameron had just apologised for the British atrocities in Northern Ireland. Martin McGuinness shook the Queens hand and the Queen visited Ireland and gave a gracious speech. This was the high point of Irish - English ('British') relations.

Since that point, things have gone rapidly downhill. The rise of English nationalism has been a sorry sight. Even the Unionists in Northern Ireland who were at first very enthusiastic have rowed back rapidly - its not 'Britain first', it's 'England first'. Brexit will see the break up of the UK where Scotland will finally break free and rule itself, freeing itself from Westminster mismanagement. The population of Northern Ireland are quickly discovering Westminster doesnt give a damn about them either.

You can be as snide and condescending as you like, but this nationalist ****show will be the end of the UK. England will soon find that not only is the empire over, but their other possesions aren't quite satisfied with being pissed on either. The disdain that the English politicians regularly show for their Scottish and Welsh counterparts in Westminster will finally come home to roost. English arrogance and superiority will be your undoing. You had your day in the sun and have proven yourself to be unworthy.

Be smug as you like but Brexit has shown the world what yout leaders are like, what the Tories are like and how dumb all the people are who vote for them. Give them a thumping majority no less. The EU are ready to stand up to the UK in these trade negotiations and they will. All the bluster and bluffing will get the UK nowhere - we all see through it. I'm afraid the sad reality is the UK has fucķed itself. I had sympathy and empathy for quite some time but that well is exhausted. Prepare yourself.

Boredstiff666

J Mysterio wrote: »

Sorry, no.

The Brits are to blame for everything wrong in Ireland during their occupation of Ireland. See banning of religion, language, games. See famine, land grabbing and mismanagement. Also the legacy costs of the occupation in terms of how they stunted the development of this country and its occupants. I fail to see how that is 'entertaining'.

But as a populace, we have 'got over it'. In fact the English (it was England who subjugated us, just as it is England which dominates the UK and drives Brexit) Irish relationship was never better prior to Brexit. Cameron had just apologised for the British atrocities in Northern Ireland. Martin McGuinness shook the Queens hand and the Queen visited Ireland and gave a gracious speech. This was the high point of Irish - English ('British') relations.

Since that point, things have gone rapidly downhill. The rise of English nationalism has been a sorry sight. Even the Unionists in Northern Ireland who were at first very enthusiastic have rowed back rapidly - its not 'Britain first', it's 'England first'. Brexit will see the break up of the UK where Scotland will finally break free and rule itself, freeing itself from Westminster mismanagement. The population of Northern Ireland are quickly discovering Westminster doesnt give a damn about them either.

You can be as snide and condescending as you like, but this nationalist ****show will be the end of the UK. England will soon find that not only is the empire over, but their other possesions aren't quite satisfied with being pissed on either. The disdain that the English politicians regularly show for their Scottish and Welsh counterparts in Westminster will finally come home to roost. English arrogance and superiority will be your undoing. You had your day in the sun and have proven yourself to be unworthy.

Be smug as you like but Brexit has shown the world what yout leaders are like, what the Tories are like and how dumb all the people are who vote for them. Give them a thumping majority no less. The EU are ready to stand up to the UK in these trade negotiations and they will. All the bluster and bluffing will get the UK nowhere - we all see through it. I'm afraid the sad reality is the UK has fucķed itself. I had sympathy and empathy for quite some time but that well is exhausted. Prepare yourself.

You just totally embarrassed yourself with your rant.

For a start you cannot hold the people of today accountable for what their long dead ancesters may have done.

Secondly. Brexit is a democratic right of the British people. It is not nationalist to vote for Brexit just as it isnt racist to vote against immigration. (example).

The Tories and Labour were pledging to have a referendum on the EU up until it happened in 2016. It was never a Tory idea.

It is laughable when you talk of an 'empire' because nobody in the UK ever does. It is only ever 'anti's who try to use it as a slur.

Anglo/Irish relations have been soured by the 2 fools who are about to get booted out. Nothing to do with anyone in the UK.

You forget that upto 1916. Ireland was part of a 1st world country. Ireland decided to walk away from that. What happened to them then was all down to the donkeys who led your country. Nothing to do with anyone else.

What NI or Scotland do is all up to the. My personal view is let them go. It will cost the rest so much less money and hassle.

On a side note. The banning of religion (if true) was a good thing considering what those people did to the Irish people up until quite recently.

J Mysterio

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

You just totally embarrassed yourself with your rant.

For a start you cannot hold the people of today accountable for what their long dead ancesters may have done.

Secondly. Brexit is a democratic right of the British people. It is not nationalist to vote for Brexit just as it isnt racist to vote against immigration. (example).

The Tories and Labour were pledging to have a referendum on the EU up until it happened in 2016. It was never a Tory idea.

It is laughable when you talk of an 'empire' because nobody in the UK ever does. It is only ever 'anti's who try to use it as a slur.

Anglo/Irish relations have been soured by the 2 fools who are about to get booted out. Nothing to do with anyone in the UK.

You forget that upto 1916. Ireland was part of a 1st world country. Ireland decided to walk away from that. What happened to them then was all down to the donkeys who led your country. Nothing to do with anyone else.

What NI or Scotland do is all up to the. My personal view is let them go. It will cost the rest so much less money and hassle.

On a side note. The banning of religion (if true) was a good thing considering what those people did to the Irish people up until quite recently.

I'll just leave this here for now.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1053662098574716929?s=20

The rest can wait.

Boredstiff666

Do you honestly think that man could mean returning to a hundred years ago:D:D:D:D

It's a bit like saying a vote for Sein Fein is a vote to bomb the UK.

What a ridiculous example and point of view you have.

It's an amazing example of how a few probably not the best words could fall onto the ears of someone who could only ever see them as meaning the worst possibly thing.

What he probably meant was trading between the countries who were supposed to be part of what some refer to as the empire. Others prefer the commonwealth.

joeguevara

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

You just totally embarrassed yourself with your rant.

For a start you cannot hold the people of today accountable for what their long dead ancesters may have done.

Secondly. Brexit is a democratic right of the British people. It is not nationalist to vote for Brexit just as it isnt racist to vote against immigration. (example).

The Tories and Labour were pledging to have a referendum on the EU up until it happened in 2016. It was never a Tory idea.

It is laughable when you talk of an 'empire' because nobody in the UK ever does. It is only ever 'anti's who try to use it as a slur.

Anglo/Irish relations have been soured by the 2 fools who are about to get booted out. Nothing to do with anyone in the UK.

You forget that upto 1916. Ireland was part of a 1st world country. Ireland decided to walk away from that. What happened to them then was all down to the donkeys who led your country. Nothing to do with anyone else.

What NI or Scotland do is all up to the. My personal view is let them go. It will cost the rest so much less money and hassle.

On a side note. The banning of religion (if true) was a good thing considering what those people did to the Irish people up until quite recently.

I’m going to do something I thought I wouldn’t have to do on this thread. However entrenched Bored is in his ideas. However infuriating he is in his beliefs. The only times it has annoyed me reading his posts is when he called Ireland irrelevant.

But he is a decent skin. I am actually impressed in his arguments. He won’t listen to me and thinks I’m talking out my ass but doesn’t keeps to the point without personal attack.

To say all that is wrong in Ireland is to do with English occupation is nonsense. It was mentioned about non access to housing, education culture etc. But what about the highly educated Irish, in accommodation and cultured. Yes we had issues but not any more, well not to do with English.

Brexit is bizarre. I don’t agree with it. I think it won’t be successful but it is understandable when you look at demographic who voted it. The areas and people who voted to leave had reasons. They saw no advantages from EU unlike Areas where cash was pumped in. Fishing industries decimated, coal and steel too. Car industries losing out. Urban areas saw growth and cash injections.

Honestly if you look at groups who protest homelessness in Ireland the constant theme is giving out about refugees getting houses. (Not my belief).

Honestly for how much we think Brexit is crazy, if Ireland had a vote, a lot of people would follow.

Anyway I’m off topic. But as much as Boredstiff gets under my skin with his arguments, he didn’t deserve that attack..


Now back to normality

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Secondly. Brexit is a democratic right of the British people. It is not nationalist to vote for Brexit just as it isnt racist to vote against immigration. (example).

This makes no sense at all. Do you want to have another go at saying whatever it is you are trying to say?

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

It is laughable when you talk of an 'empire' because nobody in the UK ever does. It is only ever 'anti's who try to use it as a slur.

Nonsense. I have often seen Brexiters use “empire” a slur, when they characterise the EU as an empire.

The EU is nothing like an empire, of course, but Brexiters cannot conceive of the EU operating in any way other than the way the British ran their empire, back in the day.

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Anglo/Irish relations have been soured by the 2 fools who are about to get booted out. Nothing to do with anyone in the UK.

The contempt and disdain with which Northern Ireland has been systematically treated throughout the Brexit process has had no effect on Anglo-Irish relations, and has nothing to do with anyone in the UK? Yeah, right.

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

You forget that upto 1916. Ireland was part of a 1st world country. Ireland decided to walk away from that. What happened to them then was all down to the donkeys who led your country. Nothing to do with anyone else.

And you forget - or, possibly, never knew - that over the period since independence Ireland has performed much better than the UK, and in particular better than the part of Ireland which remained within the UK. Quite why this means that the Irish leaders are donkeys is not clear, and I shudder to think what it implies about UK leaders. Dodos? Turnips? Simple unicellular organisms? Mark Francoises?

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

What NI or Scotland do is all up to the. My personal view is let them go. It will cost the rest so much less money and hassle.

“What NI or Scotland do is all up to them, which is why their votes on Brexit, and their views on Brexit, have been completely ignored, and a hard Brexit which they do not want and do not like is being imposed on them in an attempt to gratify the English right, which is also why Scotland is being told by the right-wing Tory government that it is not allowed to have an independence referendum. By ‘up to them’ I in fact mean ‘the English will tell them what will be done to them and they will just have to put up with it’”.

theological

Thought we could do with a bit of new content. On Wednesday Andrew Neil grilled Natalie Loiseau French MEP on her position on the FTA with the UK and said that they are being double minded saying they are open to a Canada arrangement while expecting forced alignment and ECJ oversight which they do not demand of any other country they have a FTA with. She basically becomes so exasperated that she says "I didn't realise I was speaking to Boris Johnson's spokesman" because Neil dared to grill her in the EU's approach.

For those of you with access to iPlayer it is here from 12:15 in full.
For those without a snippet.

theological

theological wrote: »

Thought we could do with a bit of new content. On Wednesday Andrew Neil grilled Natalie Loiseau French MEP on her position on the FTA with the UK and said that they are being double minded saying they are open to a Canada arrangement while expecting forced alignment and ECJ oversight which they do not demand of any other country they have a FTA with. She basically becomes so exasperated that she says "I didn't realise I was speaking to Boris Johnson's spokesman" because Neil dared to grill her in the EU's approach.

It's his job to grill people and he's good at it. But he could have done a better job had he not just repeated the same maternity leave stuff that Johnson talked about in his speech.
- It's not a particularly relevant example of alignment or standards in a trade deal.
- The UK ranks poorly in Europe when it comes to paid maternity leave.
- Comparing a country's voluntary level with a bloc's minimum level is pointless. It also shows that the UK decides on its own laws.

Regardless, if 2020 is going to be the UK pointing at other deals and saying "Why not us?", they're not going to get far. There is a very clear and simple reason for why more safeguards have to be in place in a deal.. Geography.

Peregrinus

theological wrote: »

Thought we could do with a bit of new content. On Wednesday Andrew Neil grilled Natalie Loiseau French MEP on her position on the FTA with the UK and said that they are being double minded saying they are open to a Canada arrangement while expecting forced alignment and ECJ oversight which they do not demand of any other country they have a FTA with. She basically becomes so exasperated that she says "I didn't realise I was speaking to Boris Johnson's spokesman" because Neil dared to grill her in the EU's approach.

For those of you with access to iPlayer it is here from 12:15 in full.
For those without a snippet.

Neil is often accused of being biassed against them by people on both sides of the Brexit question. Loiseau accuses him of being “Boris Johnson’s spokesman”, while Johnson is famously so scared of Neil that he took considerable political and reputational damage rather than be interviewed by him during the election campaign.

I guess if they both feel like that about you then, as a journalist, you’re doing something right.

On the issue of demanding “forced alignment and ECJ oversight” in an FTA with the UK but not in FTAs with other countries, we have to start with a nitpick: nothing which is in a Free Trade Agreement that the UK makes is “forced” on the UK; by definition, it is something that the UK agrees to.

But on the question of why the EU wants this degree of alignment in a Canada-style agreement with the UK when it didn‘t want it in a Canada-style agreement with, well, Canada, the short answer is that the UK is not Canada. Given the UK’s size and location, Canada-style levels of access present issues for the EU that don’t arise with Canada. On balance, the EU concludes that it’s in its interests to make such an agreement with Canada without requiring that degree of alignment, but not with the UK. By the same token the UK would presumably decline to enter into an Irish-style Common Travel Area with the EU, even though it has already done so with Ireland.

The other point to bear in mind is that the UK is (or was, until this week) seeking not a mirror of the Canada deal, but merely a Canada-style deal. The Canada deal still retains certain tariffs, and while it increases quotas it does not abolish them altogether, whereas the UK was targetting a zero-tariff, zero-quota deal. That would give the UK a level of market access that no country has, that does not accept regulatory alignment and ECJ oversight. Which would raise the question, why does the UK think it should get this, when no-one else does? And why would the EU grant it?

The debate may now be moot since the UK is apparently (if we take the latest ministerial statements to represent anything like a settled position) no longer targeting a Canada-style deal, but rather a Russia-style deal. Or, if we prefer Tory marketing-speak, an Australia-style deal. Or, if we call a spade a spade, no FTA at all. Time will tell if the UK position, um, evolves further as affected stakeholders make known in Westminster their views on having no FTA with the EU.

theological

Deleted User wrote: »

It's his job to grill people and he's good at it. But he could have done a better job had he not just repeated the same maternity leave stuff that Johnson talked about in his speech.
- It's not a particularly relevant example of alignment or standards in a trade deal.
- The UK ranks poorly in Europe when it comes to paid maternity leave.
- Comparing a country's voluntary level with a bloc's minimum level is pointless. It also shows that the UK decides on its own laws.

Regardless, if 2020 is going to be the UK pointing at other deals and saying "Why not us?", they're not going to get far. There is a very clear and simple reason for why more safeguards have to be in place in a deal.. Geography.

The thing that is great about Neil as a presenter is that he automatically plays devils advocate for the opposing position. For example if a Tory MP comes on he will challenge them from a Labour perspective.

Neil was right to argue from precedence as to what other countries have previously agreed. I think Johnson is right to refuse automatically adopting EU rules and it is good to make that clear now. If the EU were convinced that Canada's labour laws were good enough they should be convinced in respect to UK laws.

ECJ oversight is not included in the Canada FTA either.

The comment about being Boris Johnson's spokesman was silly. It's almost like she expects journalists to fall behind and advocate automatically for the EU.

theological

Peregrinus wrote: »

The other point to bear in mind is that the UK is (or was, until this week) seeking not a mirror of the Canada deal, but merely a Canada-style deal. The Canada deal still retains certain tariffs, and while it increases quotas it does not abolish them altogether, whereas the UK was targetting a zero-tariff, zero-quota deal. That would give the UK a level of market access that no country has, that does not accept regulatory alignment and ECJ oversight. Which would raise the question, why does the UK think it should get this, when no-one else does? And why would the EU grant it?

Johnson has been pretty clear that he wants a Canada deal with the EU.

I think he's right to reject any proposal that requires automatic alignment of the EU rule book and any oversight by a body that doesn't have both UK and EU representatives on it with a third party. That means even if the EU say quotas are required.

I think there's still a strong enough argument for the merits of an FTA without these demands in it. If there was the case for Canada there's the case for the UK.