Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Junkyard Tom

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

So we could say that really they would prefer to be out of the EU?

Categorically no. If SF had ran on an out-of-the-EU platform they'd be nowhere because the Irish population are, unfortunately for you and the other Tele-graph-tubbies, pro-EU.

Boredstiff666

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Can you imagine your best mate Boris and Mary Lou sitting down for a chat.....she would ate him without the salt. If she gets the top job in Irish government......a united Ireland is a very big step closer. Question is can she get it over the line before they bankrupt the country.......

Thats what I mean it is all so off the wall. Its unreal. Its as if Ireland has just landed itself the biggest problem nobody could have dreampt up.

Another problem for the EU.

Just wait until the French elections in two years time. If the EU hasnt gone by then it will that day. Because no EU party will be in power in France.

Boredstiff666

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Categorically no. If SF had ran on an out-of-the-EU platform they'd be nowhere because the Irish population are, unfortunately for you and the other Tele-graph-tubbies, pro-Eu.

Tom it makes no difference any more mate. If they get in power they can do what they like for 4 or 5 years regardless of what anybody thinks.

Irishmale0399

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Thats what I mean it is all so off the wall. Its unreal. Its as if Ireland has just landed itself the biggest problem nobody could have dreampt up.

Another problem for the EU.

Just wait until the French elections in two years time. If the EU hasnt gone by then it will that day. Because no EU party will be in power in France.

What we have seen today is a protest vote. People will see the side effects and I suspect that we will be electing a new government very soon again. Ireland is and remains pro EU, people will quickly see what Sinn Fein are about and will want change quicker than ever before.

Boredstiff666

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

What we have seen today is a protest vote. People will see the side effects and I suspect that we will be electing a new government very soon again. Ireland is and remains pro EU, people will quickly see what Sinn Fein are about and will want change quicker than ever before.

I am not disagreeing with you. But also you could be wrong just as everybody was in the UK in 2016.

Your protest vote as you call it may have put a party into power which could drastically change everything in this country and you cant do anything until the next election.

Remember they may be in 'power' and that holds supreme because they were democratically elected..........protest vote or not.

Junkyard Tom

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Your protest vote as you call it may have put a party into power which could drastically change everything in this country...

One of the reasons SF have done so well is because they've moved to the middle. Mary Lou is a Dub, Martin McGuinness is dead and Gerry Adams is out to pasture. On the continent they'd be considered a regular Social Democratic party.

The ethno-nationalist, anti-EU, lunatic fringe got less than 2% of the vote.

Boredstiff666

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

One of the reasons SF have done so well is because they've moved to the middle. Mary Lou is a Dub, Martin McGuinness is dead and Gerry Adams is out to pasture. On the continent they'd be considered a regular Social Democratic party.

The ethno-nationalist, anti-EU, lunatic fringe got less than 2% of the vote.

But their aim and it is their goal is not to push what is already there/here. It is to get a united Ireland. They will now if able to throw everything at that.

You know as well as anybody that this country cannot afford those people.

It is a huge problem that wasnt even there but now it could be.

Junkyard Tom

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

But their aim and it ... is to get a united Ireland.

They can't force a UI. SF are playing the long game on a UI and I think most people know that it's likely the first border poll in the north will be lost, meaning that another is at least 7 years away, so we could be looking at 10+ years at best for a United Ireland.

Bit cynical

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They're traditionally Euro-sceptic even anti-EU if you go back far enough. I'd describe them as moderately EU critical now and utterly stupid if they don't realise that being in the EU is a gift to Irish sovereignty.

Sinn Fein could set themselves up as the party that publicly fights for Ireland's interests within the EU. Of course other governing parties do this but it tends to be behind closed doors.

greenfield21

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

But their aim and it is their goal is not to push what is already there/here. It is to get a united Ireland. They will now if able to throw everything at that.

You know as well as anybody that this country cannot afford those people.

It is a huge problem that wasnt even there but now it could be.

Don't the EU commission set the spending and deficit limits for individual countries. That should be fun trying to raise them. No doubt they will need someone to blame for all their failed promises no easier target than the big bad eu. Take a leaf out of the trump and brexit playbook.

Padre_Pio

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

They can't force a UI. SF are playing the long game on a UI and I think most people know that it's likely the first border poll in the north will be lost, meaning that another is at least 7 years away, so we could be looking at 10+ years at best for a United Ireland.

A border poll will be called when they're 100% sure it'll pass.

Give it 20 years. The troubles will be out of living memory, most of the hardcore unionists will be in the grave and hopefully the hard border in the Irish Sea will have pushed many towards a United Ireland

Donald Trump

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Tom it makes no difference any more mate. If they get in power they can do what they like for 4 or 5 years regardless of what anybody thinks.

Not really. They can't get a majority. They will need others to keep them in there.

Boredstiff666

Padre_Pio wrote: »

A border poll will be called when they're 100% sure it'll pass.

Give it 20 years. The troubles will be out of living memory, most of the hardcore unionists will be in the grave and hopefully the hard border in the Irish Sea will have pushed many towards a United Ireland

Well one thing I have learned is that when you live through a time/era. You remember exactly what it was like and you never want that again.

Younger people only see the nicer/romantic side of it.

So regards the troubles I wouldnt push that behind the door yet.

Yesterdays cold blooded indiscriminate murderer is todays hero.

Boredstiff666

Well so far thats one hell of a protest vote. from nowhere to the top first vote preference.

Must have been a big thing to protest about.........Take your pick.

Boredstiff666

The people of the UK who the the two fools condemned every Sunday on Brit TV must be pissing themselves now.

You did one hell of a job Leo. There is even talk now that Mary Lou is excluding you and the other mob from Government........ https://news.sky.com/story/irish-election-sinn-fein-to-exclude-fine-gael-and-fianna-fail-from-new-coalition-mcdonald-11930261

Junkyard Tom

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

The people of the UK who the the two fools condemned every Sunday on Brit TV must be pissing themselves now.

Can you clarify what you mean here?

Padre_Pio

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well one thing I have learned is that when you live through a time/era. You remember exactly what it was like and you never want that again.

Younger people only see the nicer/romantic side of it.

So regards the troubles I wouldnt push that behind the door yet.

Yesterdays cold blooded indiscriminate murderer is todays hero.

The Troubles hit it's peak about 40 years ago and officially ended just over 20 years ago. Most people that lived through it would be in their 40s right around now. I'm in my 30s and the Omagh bombing is the only thing I vaguely remember.

Give it another 20 years and the demographic will swing towards those who have only seen the Troubles on Reeling in the Years or heard the stories from their grandparents.
Also, the religious demographic is swinging towards majority Catholic in all areas in the North, coupled with an ovverall decrease in religious practice.

Boredstiff666

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The Troubles hit it's peak about 40 years ago and officially ended just over 20 years ago. Most people that lived through it would be in their 40s right around now. I'm in my 30s and the Omagh bombing is the only thing I vaguely remember.

Give it another 20 years and the demographic will swing towards those who have only seen the Troubles on Reeling in the Years or heard the stories from their grandparents.
Also, the religious demographic is swinging towards majority Catholic in all areas in the North, coupled with an ovverall decrease in religious practice.

So your younger years and not living in that era tells you that it was just Catholics against a majority protestant population.

Straight away you have a false view of what was actually happening.

This gets exaggerated and distorted as time goes on to where the actual truth is just somebodies version of it and most likely bears no resemblance to the truth at all.

Then it all becomes heroic and sanitized when it was just senseless murder, mayhem, grief, and nothing good at all.

Padre_Pio

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

So your younger years and not living in that era tells you that it was just Catholics against a majority protestant population.

Straight away you have a false view of what was actually happening.

This gets exaggerated and distorted as time goes on to where the actual truth is just somebodies version of it and most likely bears no resemblance to the truth at all.

Then it all becomes heroic and sanitized when it was just senseless murder, mayhem, grief, and nothing good at all.

I don't agree with the first part. I know what the troubles were, but I definitely agree with your second part a la a sanitised, summarised, retrospective, fit for print version of events.

joeguevara

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

So your younger years and not living in that era tells you that it was just Catholics against a majority protestant population.

Straight away you have a false view of what was actually happening.

This gets exaggerated and distorted as time goes on to where the actual truth is just somebodies version of it and most likely bears no resemblance to the truth at all.

Then it all becomes heroic and sanitized when it was just senseless murder, mayhem, grief, and nothing good at all.

So in a nutshell you are saying somebodies version of the truth bares no resemblance to the truth, by giving your version of the truth. Now I understand,

Peregrinus

greenfield21 wrote: »

Don't the EU commission set the spending and deficit limits for individual countries. That should be fun trying to raise them. No doubt they will need someone to blame for all their failed promises no easier target than the big bad eu. Take a leaf out of the trump and brexit playbook.

People who have taken leaves out of the Trump and Brexit playbook have done disastrously in this election.

As for SF's economic stance, according to a Bloomberg report international analysts are saying that their spending plans "while greater than those of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, are still conservative", and the markets seem unspooked by the prospect of SF in government in Ireland. Have SF said they want to breach EU debt/deficit rules?

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Then it all becomes heroic and sanitized when it was just senseless murder, mayhem, grief, and nothing good at all.

A perfect description of the British re-interpretation of WW1 & WW2.

Boredstiff666

CelticRambler wrote: »

A perfect description of the British re-interpretation of WW1 & WW2.

The only way I can answer that is my mrs had an uncle who was a prisoner of the Japanese on the bridge of the river Kwai.........He would never talk of that time ever right up until he died.

When we were younger we all had relations who fought in WW1.........We knew very little from them as they would never talk of those times.

You never see old soldiers who actually fought try and glamourise what they did. Just the opposite.

It is the writers and documakers who put the brave and heroic side to it. I imagine the soldier would just not want to talk or ever try to think of it anymore.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

People who have taken leaves out of the Trump and Brexit playbook have done disastrously in this election.

You may be right except the polls say that Brexit for example was down around a few percent of the reasons people voted.

People voted on the people of Ireland and issues around them. Not what goes on around the world which has nothing to do with them and they cant alter.

People are concerned about homeless people on the streets and all the other social issues like health etc.

Snickers Man

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Can you clarify what you mean here?

I'm guessing he's talking about Varadkar and Coveney and their regular contributions to British TV re Brexit.

I also guess he believes that British people might be surprised by the sight of a party that has been in power for more than 10 years being edged aside (and it is just a case of edging, hardly a landslide) as the sort of thing that never happens in normal democracies :rolleyes:

I know there's quite a few people in Britain who were annoyed by the stridency of Coveney in particular as he fought Ireland's corner during the Withdrawal Agreement negotiations and many extreme Brexiteers liked to portray Leo as a Brussels poodle, slavishly doing his masters' bidding by trying to stymie Brexit through obstructing British attempts to push through their version of disentanglement from Ireland (hard Irish border).

Like I said, I don't think that did him any harm in the Irish election and if anything, it is probably what held his vote up more than a long-term incumbent Government party might have expected.

Those irked by Coveney and Varadkar might be delighted at the sight of an FG defeat. Wait till they meet the new Aire Gnóthaí Eatracha, especially if it's someone like Mary Lou, or Pearse Doherty or Dessie Ellis:eek:.

Professor Moriarty

Snickers Man wrote: »

I'm guessing he's talking about Varadkar and Coveney and their regular contributions to British TV re Brexit.

I also guess he believes that British people might be surprised by the sight of a party that has been in power for more than 10 years being edged aside (and it is just a case of edging, hardly a landslide) as the sort of thing that never happens in normal democracies :rolleyes:

I know there's quite a few people in Britain who were annoyed by the stridency of Coveney in particular as he fought Ireland's corner during the Withdrawal Agreement negotiations and many extreme Brexiteers liked to portray Leo as a Brussels poodle, slavishly doing his masters' bidding by trying to stymie Brexit through obstructing British attempts to push through their version of disentanglement from Ireland (hard Irish border).

Like I said, I don't think that did him any harm in the Irish election and if anything, it is probably what held his vote up more than a long-term incumbent Government party might have expected.

Those irked by Coveney and Varadkar might be delighted at the sight of an FG defeat. Wait till they meet the new Aire Gnóthaí Eatracha, especially if it's someone like Mary Lou, or Pearse Doherty or Dessie Ellis:eek:.

Dessie will fight them like a man.

Boredstiff666

Snickers Man wrote: »

I'm guessing he's talking about Varadkar and Coveney and their regular contributions to British TV re Brexit. ....I have explained it quite a few times before and cant be arsed again....but thank you for saving me the time.

I also guess he believes that British people might be surprised by the sight of a party that has been in power for more than 10 years being edged aside (and it is just a case of edging, hardly a landslide) as the sort of thing that never happens in normal democracies :rolleyes:.......British people would have zero knowledge of Irish politics and I guess 50% wouldn't even know the place excists.......if they did know anything about Irish it would be their view of your ex-pats on sites up and down the UK...........A tip go on Youtube and laugh at Brits visiting Ireland for the first time.......their reactions and surprise are quite funny.

I know there's quite a few people in Britain who were annoyed by the stridency of Coveney in particular as he fought Ireland's corner during the Withdrawal Agreement negotiations and many extreme Brexiteers liked to portray Leo as a Brussels poodle, slavishly doing his masters' bidding by trying to stymie Brexit through obstructing British attempts to push through their version of disentanglement from Ireland (hard Irish border). .......I think it was more why is this Irish man coming over here telling us we are stupid voting for Brexit and why must we hold another vote on it........then after they did he came back and started telling them what they must do.....again

Like I said, I don't think that did him any harm in the Irish election and if anything, it is probably what held his vote up more than a long-term incumbent Government party might have expected. ........The polls say that the electorate concern with Brexit was in the single figures so I think most Irish people took less notice of Leo banging on about Brexit than what the Brits did.

Junkyard Tom

Snickers Man wrote: »

I'm guessing he's talking about Varadkar and Coveney and their regular contributions to British TV re Brexit.

Oh right so the Daily Mail version of reality? Hardly worth engaging.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

I know there's quite a few people in Britain who were annoyed by the stridency of Coveney in particular as he fought Ireland's corner during the Withdrawal Agreement negotiations .I think it was more why is this Irish man coming over here telling us we are stupid voting for Brexit and why must we hold another vote on it........then after they did he came back and started telling them what they must do.....again

I don't think they ever told them to hold another referendum. I don't think ANY Irish politician ever told the British that they couldn't leave the EU. But they DID say that there were some aspects of the future relationship, especially regarding N Ireland, that the Irish would not accept being told unilaterally by Britain what would happen. An agreement had to be reached. And the EU backed us in that, which the British didn't like. Or some of them, anyway

Snickers Man wrote: »

The polls say that the electorate concern with Brexit was in the single figures so I think most Irish people took less notice of Leo banging on about Brexit than what the Brits did.

It wasn't a concern at the election because, apart from a few loonies in the National Party and Independence Party, there was very little disagreement about how to proceed. Didn't matter who you voted for, the policy would be the same.

That's not the same as saying nobody cared about it.

Boredstiff666

Snickers Man wrote: »

I don't think they ever told them to hold another referendum. I don't think ANY Irish politician ever told the British that they couldn't leave the EU. But they DID say that there were some aspects of the future relationship, especially regarding N Ireland, that the Irish would not accept being told unilaterally by Britain what would happen. An agreement had to be reached. And the EU backed us in that, which the British didn't like. Or some of them, anyway........Ok I dont want to upset Tom and let him think I only read the Mail and Express. So heres an Irish version I think. Appears he wasnt in touch with the UK public as well as his own........ https://www.irishpost.com/news/leo-varadkar-sparks-outrage-saying-britain-must-another-brexit-vote-172122



It wasn't a concern at the election because, apart from a few loonies in the National Party and Independence Party, there was very little disagreement about how to proceed. Didn't matter who you voted for, the policy would be the same.

That's not the same as saying nobody cared about it.....Point taken just the wrong words i suppose.