Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

gmisk

DubInMeath wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/status/1227906931450425344

Delay is nothing to do with brexit

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/amsterdam-schiphol-airport-immigration-uk-after-brexit-tweet-1741659

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Delay is nothing to do with brexit

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/amsterdam-schiphol-airport-immigration-uk-after-brexit-tweet-1741659

Correct according to the article, it should have been included also in my original post.

joeguevara

Manchester City taking this Brexit lark a bit too seriously.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51510284

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Cummings is de man

Another unelected bureaucrat. Making decisions that you have no say in.

Brexit, taking back control!

Boredstiff666

PHG wrote: »

Figures suggest (and they are not greatly kept) that when you compare what Scotland receives from the UK vs what is puts in, is approx. net 0. So good job there!! England keep their submarines in Scotland, particularly the nuclear ones they own, so cannot see them chopping it off.........you really ought to check your facts.........besides money a lot of the work comes from down south as well and always has done........The shipyards are only open at the expence of the ones in England is just one example

Now, the Scottish referendum was based on Parliament saying that they would be staying in the EU, which has now been broken so definitely a contention for round 2.

Your posts come across as quite shouty, as in, I will shout very loud and thus I am right. Maybe look more to the facts than an isolated view.......Highlighting a text in a colour that stands out to reply to a quote is not shouty as you put it.

Side note, I have been to Scotland and it is a very stunning place in the right weather conditions. maybe you should book a trip to Edinburgh or the Highlands!! Actually, is there any place you don't detest?............I wasnt aware I had mentioned any place or anything I detested. You must be a mind reader with all this info you possess...all incorrect.


I too have been to Scotland. To quote my Glaswegian grandad......'why the hell would anybody want to go there?'.........he was correct. Probably why the whole rich family upped and moved south. I went around a fair bit of Scotland............You are correct. Very scenic.....through a glass double glazed window.

careless sherpa

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I too have been to Scotland. To quote my Glaswegian grandad......'why the hell would anybody want to go there?'.........he was correct. Probably why the whole rich family upped and moved south. I went around a fair bit of Scotland.......Now I know why everybody leaves the place except the new refugees/migrants. A lot of self respecting Scots gets out as soon as possible.........You are correct. Very scenic.....through a glass double glazed window.

Is there any reason why you are trying to come across as obnoxious as possible.

theological

Apparently the EU are "fighting like ferrets" to fill the £62bn hole Britain has left in the EU budget for the next 7 years.

I thought Brexit would be a good opportunity for the EU to learn that the answer isn't always more EU control but perhaps even less EU control. Perhaps cutting the budget could be a good way to put more power and responsibility into the hands of member states.

The UK’s withdrawal from the European Union has left a huge €75bn (£62bn) hole in the bloc’s budget for the next seven years, 2021 to 2027. “And now we are fighting like ferrets in a sack,” said one EU diplomat with a sigh.

Covering items ranging from agricultural subsidies to science programmes and the EU’s efforts to combat the climate emergency, the new multi-annual financial framework (MFF) needs to be agreed by the leaders and an increasingly unpredictable European parliament before the end of the year. Without agreement, everything risks grinding to a halt in just nine months’ time, including the flow of cohesion funds, the cash dedicated to supporting the poorest member states.

Boredstiff666

theological wrote: »

Apparently the EU are "fighting like ferrets" to fill the £62bn hole Britain has left in the EU budget for the next 7 years.

I thought Brexit would be a good opportunity for the EU to learn that the answer isn't always more EU control but perhaps even less EU control. Perhaps cutting the budget could be a good way to put more power and responsibility into the hands of member states.

The arguing was always going to happen and it really hasnt started yet because the effects of a country who paid so much in leaving, hasnt been felt by anybody. When it does sit back and watch.

cryptocurrency

DubInMeath wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ColinBrowning14/status/1227906931450425344

Been using the non Eu line since 2016 and 99% it is much much faster then the EU one at most airports, especially Dublin.

swampgas

theological wrote: »

Apparently the EU are "fighting like ferrets" to fill the £62bn hole Britain has left in the EU budget for the next 7 years.

I thought Brexit would be a good opportunity for the EU to learn that the answer isn't always more EU control but perhaps even less EU control. Perhaps cutting the budget could be a good way to put more power and responsibility into the hands of member states.

It's not much of a news story. The EU budget is very important, and is debated vigorously, sometimes heatedly, by the member states every time it comes around. I doubt very many are shouting for the benefits the EU budget might generate for their own countries to be reduced, they are (like all participants in a budget) arguing about what should be paid for and by whom.

I'd be more concerned if there wasn't any noise at all coming from the EU over such an important issue.

IMO the people of the UK get a distorted view and draw the wrong conclusions here. Most EU countries have political systems that promote haggling towards an agreement. They understand that there is give and take. The UK tradition is winner takes all, with no compromise and very little value given to consensus and compromise at the national level.

You seem to be making a similar assumption - that arguments and heated debates mean the system isn't working. In fact it's working exactly as it always has. An agreement will be reached, it may take time and effort, but the budget will be resolved. It's a pity the UK couldn't have a similar grown up approach for its own domestic political affairs.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

Apparently the EU are "fighting like ferrets" to fill the £62bn hole Britain has left in the EU budget for the next 7 years.

I thought Brexit would be a good opportunity for the EU to learn that the answer isn't always more EU control but perhaps even less EU control. Perhaps cutting the budget could be a good way to put more power and responsibility into the hands of member states.

Which works out at 22 euros per capita, per annum. Not quite the seismic shock Farage and his cronies had you believe.

theological

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Which works out at 22 euros per capita, per annum. Not quite the seismic shock Farage and his cronies had you believe.

I don't know why you're bringing Farage into this.

Anyway, I don't understand why they need to raise the amount anyway. If there are fewer countries in the EU then the overall spend should be less, and as I say it could be a welcome opportunity to have "less Europe" and learn from the lessons of Brexit.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

I don't know why you're bringing Farage into this.

Anyway, I don't understand why they need to raise the amount anyway. If there are fewer countries in the EU then the overall spend should be less, and as I say it could be a welcome opportunity to have "less Europe" and learn from the lessons of Brexit.

You don't remember Farage and Johnson lying? You surely saw pictures of Johnson's NHS bus? And Farage peddling lies ad nauseam such as "The EU costs Britain 55 million per day"? Strange.

The loss of Britain's contribution is only a small sideshow. The real debates are about integration, richer countries wanting to pay less and immigration.

theological

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You don't remember Farage and Johnson lying? You surely saw pictures of Johnson's NHS bus? And Farage peddling lies ad nauseam such as "The EU costs Britain 55 million per day"? Strange.

The loss of Britain's contribution is only a small sideshow. The real debates are about integration, richer countries wanting to pay less and immigration.

It's worth pointing out that the NHS is getting more funding under Johnson's government. Even if they used the gross rather than the net, the UK still contributed a large amount of money to the EU every year.


But you are trying to change the topic.


It isn't about wanting to pay less. It is about not wanting to pay more to compensate for Britain's exit. (Which IMO is entirely fair). Why fill the gap to begin with? Perhaps the EU should simply reduce what they do and hand back more competence and responsibility to member states.

CelticRambler

theological wrote: »

Apparently the EU are "fighting like ferrets" to fill the £62bn hole Britain has left in the EU budget for the next 7 years.

I thought Brexit would be a good opportunity for the EU to learn that the answer isn't always more EU control but perhaps even less EU control. Perhaps cutting the budget could be a good way to put more power and responsibility into the hands of member states.

If I had any say in EU budgeting matters, and despite being enthusiastically pro-EU, I'd be fighting like a ferret too, arguing against the pointless subsidising of countless new roundabouts on the edges of rural French towns and villages. I'd also be arguing in favour of spending more on Manfred Weber's free InterRail tickets for 18-year-olds.

Brexit has nothing to do with it.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that the NHS is getting more funding under Johnson's government. Even if they used the gross rather than the net, the UK still contributed a large amount of money to the EU every year.


But you are trying to change the topic.

Nope. You're now trying to avoid the topic because it doesn't suit your agenda or your narrative. Remember, you brought up the topic.

Britain did indeed contribute 8.9 billion net per annum. However, in return, they got unfettered access to their biggest market for £108 per capita per annum. Throwing that away is about as dumb an example of economic self-harm as I've ever heard.

It isn't about wanting to pay less. It is about not wanting to pay more to compensate for Britain's exit. (Which IMO is entirely fair). Why fill the gap to begin with? Perhaps the EU should simply reduce what they do and hand back more competence and responsibility to member states.

On average, member states will have to increase their EU contributions by 0.2% to compensate for Britain's contribution. Like I said, a small side show. Some member states want further integration. That's where the debate around more or less contributions lies. It will be thrashed out and the EU will move on because if the Brexit car crash has done one thing, it has ensured that member states realise that they are far better off in the EU than out.

cryptocurrency

CelticRambler wrote: »

If I had any say in EU budgeting matters, and despite being enthusiastically pro-EU, I'd be fighting like a ferret too, arguing against the pointless subsidising of countless new roundabouts on the edges of rural French towns and villages. I'd also be arguing in favour of spending more on Manfred Weber's free InterRail tickets for 18-year-olds.

Brexit has nothing to do with it.

And nobody will listen. The MEPs for them areas have a job to argue for them roundabouts ...this won’t change.

CelticRambler

cryptocurrency wrote: »

And nobody will listen. The MEPs for them areas have a job to argue for them roundabouts ...this won’t change.

Well, it might - because those MEPs are my MEPs and while I might not have a voice in Brussels, I can challenge them face-to-face when they're on the campaign trail ... or attending any public function in the region.

It's that annoyingly "unelected Brussels bureaucrat" myth collapsing in the face of on-the-ground reality again.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Which works out at 22 euros per capita, per annum. Not quite the seismic shock Farage and his cronies had you believe.

No way Prof. You aint gonna load the bill onto the bigger countries. They pay more than their fair share already why you have been taking billions and free riding.

You will find the missing billions are going to be shared between countries and some who have had plenty may now be paying a bigger proportion.

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

No way Prof. You aint gonna load the bill onto the bigger countries. They pay more than their fair share already why you have been taking billions and free riding.

You will find the missing billions are going to be shared between countries and some who have had plenty may now be paying a bigger proportion.

Please explain.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Please explain.

Tell a German and a French family that they have to pay more when they already have for over 40 years. When Ireland has received many billions of their and Brit money. But Ireland can afford to pay now so those countries similar can do their part and step in and pay the missing money instead of expecting other countries to do it 'again'.

Thats only fair dont you think?

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Tell a German and a French family that they have to pay more when they already have for over 40 years. When Ireland has received many billions of their and Brit money. But Ireland can afford to pay now so those countries similar can do their part and step in and pay the missing money instead of expecting other countries to do it 'again'.

Ireland has been a net contributor since 2014.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Ireland has been a net contributor since 2014.

A piddly amount for 5 out of 47 years. Well whoopie feckin doo.

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

A piddly amount for 5 out of 47 years. Well whoopie feckin doo.

It's just that your premise was wrong. Ireland's success despite a speed bump in 2008 makes it the poster boy for the EU and will encourage many other small countries who now see the EU as a wonderful institution.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's just that your premise was wrong. Ireland's success despite a speed bump in 2008 makes it the poster boy for the EU and will encourage many other small countries who now see the EU as a wonderful institution.

Yeah right. They see it as a way of getting billions for nowt.

But such is the close gang of mates. Now in their time of need little Paddy here only wants to pay the least he can when he can well afford more to help out and pay a lot more.

Hiding in the toilet when its your round are we?

You are the one who spouts the glory of being in the EU.

Padre_Pio

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

A piddly amount for 5 out of 47 years. Well whoopie feckin doo.

What's your problem?
Ireland was a backwater when we joined the EU.

The EU invested in us and now we're paying them back. They'll do the same for eastern European countries too.

Boredstiff666

Padre_Pio wrote: »

What's your problem?
Ireland was a backwater when we joined the EU.

The EU invested in us and now we're paying them back. They'll do the same for eastern European countries too.

I dont have a problem with that. I have a problem when someone tries to prove a point he turns around and says....we will only have to pay only 22 euro.

Well if I was a German or French fella I know what I would say to that especially when my economy has gone down the swanie and yours is still banging along strong.

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Yeah right. They see it as a way of getting billions for nowt.

It's more nuanced than you're able to see it. These countries see membership of the EU as being in their political, social and economic interest. And their citizens certainly do.

But such is the close gang of mates. Now in their time of need little Paddy here only wants to pay the least he can when he can well afford more to help out and pay a lot more.

Your use of "Paddy" further diminishes the credibility of what is yet again a rather shallow and cynical point. A point that entirely misses the wider importance of EU negotiations. Have a think about these words and see if they open your mind a little: Integration, immigration, trade, security, globalisation, environment.

Hiding in the toilet when its your round are we?

Facts, subtlety, cogent argument. It's all there.

You are the one who spouts the glory of being in the EU.

Correct.

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Tell a German and a French family that they have to pay more when they already have for over 40 years.

Dunno about the Germans, but the French seem quite happy to pay any amount of money for no particular return as long as no single group is targetted. Once upon a time, Nicolas Sarkozy spearheaded a polluter-pays project (that came in on time and under budget) intended to tax heavy, diesel driven vehicles - exactly the kind of measure that the ecologists are crying out for.

The peasants revolted, destroyed the physical infrastructure, disrupted the economy and the government conceded defeat. Now, every one of us has to help pay off the 1bn Euro compensation bill ... as well as find another way to deal with the polluting vehicles that still haven't been dealt with. The peasants have since been revolting (again) because they blamed Macron for the changes arising directly from their earlier revolt, with a consequent effect on the domestic economy. :rolleyes:

22€ per person here or there isn't going to make the slightest difference to a French household that's prepared to go on strike for weeks at a time because they don't want their retirement age raised from 55 to 56.

TL;DR : nothing to do with Brexit.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

It's more nuanced than you're able to see it. These countries see membership of the EU as being in their political, social and economic interest. And their citizens certainly do.



Your use of "Paddy" further diminishes the credibility of what is yet again a rather shallow and cynical point. A point that entirely misses the wider importance of EU negotiations. Have a think about these words and see if they open your mind a little: Integration, immigration, trade, security, globalisation, environment.



Facts, subtlety, cogent argument. It's all there.



Correct.

Put it like this..........A group of mates goes to the pub every week and one mate is on dole so his mates buy him his beer every week for a long time.....47 years.

Then the group of mates hit hard times and lose their jobs. But the one who was on dole is on a good earner and raking it in.

So when it comes to buying the beer the new big earner turns around and says .....'What if we just buy our own drinks lads'...........or runs to the bog.

That explanation may be easier for you to understand.