Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

theological

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's more nuanced than you're able to see it. These countries see membership of the EU as being in their political, social and economic interest. And their citizens certainly do.

This doesn't answer the question as to why it is necessary that the Europroject gets bigger rather than smaller however. Sometimes less is more. In respect to this I think that is definitely the case.


Perhaps spending this extra money isn't worth it.

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Put it like this..........A group of mates goes to the pub every week and one mate is on dole so his mates buy him his beer every week for a long time.....47 years.

Then the group of mates hit hard times and lose their jobs. But the one who was on dole is on a good earner and raking it in.

So when it comes to buying the beer the new big earner turns around and says .....'What if we just buy our own drinks lads'...........or runs to the bog.

That explanation may be easier for you to understand.

Nah. It's just more simplistic irrelevance. Bit like that friend down the pub who keeps repeating the same oneliner after a few pints. People stop taking him seriously.

Boredstiff666

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Nah. It's just more simplistic irrelevance. Bit like that friend down the pub who keeps repeating the same oneliner after a few pints. People stop taking him seriously.

You do find the fella who wont pay his way usually ends up drinking alone and gets snubbed by his 'mates' even for just suggesting....'can we just buy own own'.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

This doesn't answer the question as to why it is necessary that the Europroject gets bigger rather than smaller however. Sometimes less is more. In respect to this I think that is definitely the case.


Perhaps spending this extra money isn't worth it.

It remains to be seen. Compromise and consensus. Personally, I'd be happy to see further integration and increased contributions for economic security and to cohesively tackle issues like immigration and the environment - both of which will loom large in the decade to come.

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

A group of mates goes to the pub every week and one mate is on dole so his mates buy him his beer every week for a long time.....47 years.

Then the group of mates hit hard times and lose their jobs. But the one who was on dole is on a good earner and raking it in.

On the dole for 47 years, presumably after leaving school at 16, so now he's at least 63 years old and has suddenly got a high-paying job. :pac:

Maybe he'd be better off offering careers guidance to his equally elderly mates instead of free drinks.

Professor Moriarty

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You do find the fella who wont pay his way usually ends up drinking alone and gets snubbed by his 'mates' even for just suggesting....'can we just buy own own'.

Sounds like a metaphor for Brexit.

wexfordman2

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Sinn Fein/IRA may well be the next irish government

Sinn Fein are already in government in the UK, in fact every political party this side of the border has encouraged it, including a referendum on this side of the border overwhelmingly voted in favour of SF going in to power in the north, in addition to similar loyat/unionist parties. That was 20years ago, you need to move with the times, or get over it.

We pushed for SF to go into government, everyone did, including all parts of the Irish government, the vast majority of Irish citizens, the vast majority of northern Irelands citizens, and the British government.

gormdubhgorm

Well I would be pro-EU (but only so far) I did not want an enlarged EU.

I voted no to Nice twice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nice#The_Irish_referendums

I voted against the first Lisbon and second Lisbon referendum because I could see many of the problems that the Brexiteers complained about. But as Ireland is a much smaller state than the UK this was magnified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_Bill_2008#Reasons_for_rejection

wexfordman2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Put it like this..........A group of mates goes to the pub every week and one mate is on dole so his mates buy him his beer every week for a long time.....47 years.

Then the group of mates hit hard times and lose their jobs. But the one who was on dole is on a good earner and raking it in.

So when it comes to buying the beer the new big earner turns around and says .....'What if we just buy our own drinks lads'...........or runs to the bog.

That explanation may be easier for you to understand.

I get the impression you are proud of that little metaphor ?

1) 47 years (I assume refers to Irelands time of being a net recepeint) is an exceptionally long time for a person to be on the dole. 47 years is not a long time however for a relatively new nation to get in its feet, especially following a very long per independence period of being asset stripped (and that is being kind)
2) The group of mates (I assume here, you are referring to the eu nation's who were/are net contributes to the eu) have not lost there hobs, and are not on the door, in fact are still doing quite well. They are very far form being on the dole, never mind not being able to afford a pint .
3) The new big earner (and I assume here you mean Ireland as a net contributor) has not suggested that everyone buy their own pint, and is quite happy to contribute. In fact, the new earner rang home and asked the family for a quick poll on the matter, and they overwhelmingly voted to keep paying).

theological

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It remains to be seen. Compromise and consensus. Personally, I'd be happy to see further integration and increased contributions for economic security and to cohesively tackle issues like immigration and the environment - both of which will loom large in the decade to come.

Wow, so how much sovereignty being handed over would be too much for you?

What kind of integration exactly would you like?

Talking about handing over control over immigration, environmental controls, and "economic security" makes me all the more glad the Britain has left the EU and will be able to control these policy areas within Westminster.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

Wow, so how much sovereignty being handed over would be too much for you?

What kind of integration exactly would you like?

Talking about handing over control over immigration, environmental controls, and "economic security" makes me all the more glad the Britain has left the EU and will be able to control these policy areas within Westminster.

What part of compromise and consensus don't you understand? A unified EU approach on trade, immigration and the environment is in Ireland's interest.

theological

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What part of compromise and consensus don't you understand? A unified EU approach on trade, immigration and the environment is in Ireland's interest.

I honestly disagree with you. It isn't that I don't "understand".

If the other countries came and asked for corporation tax reform then I don't think that would be sovereignty worth handing over either.

If anything the amount of integration is too much already. It should be loosened.

Can you give me an idea of what would be too much for you?

Boredstiff666

wexfordman2 wrote: »

I get the impression you are proud of that little metaphor ?

1) 47 years (I assume refers to Irelands time of being a net recepeint) is an exceptionally long time for a person to be on the dole. 47 years is not a long time however for a relatively new nation to get in its feet, especially following a very long per independence period of being asset stripped (and that is being kind)
2) The group of mates (I assume here, you are referring to the eu nation's who were/are net contributes to the eu) have not lost there hobs, and are not on the door, in fact are still doing quite well. They are very far form being on the dole, never mind not being able to afford a pint .
3) The new big earner (and I assume here you mean Ireland as a net contributor) has not suggested that everyone buy their own pint, and is quite happy to contribute. In fact, the new earner rang home and asked the family for a quick poll on the matter, and they overwhelmingly voted to keep paying).

Mate lifes too short.

Professor Moriarty

theological wrote: »

I honestly disagree with you. It isn't that I don't "understand".

If the other countries came and asked for corporation tax reform then I don't think that would be sovereignty worth handing over either.

If anything the amount of integration is too much already. It should be loosened.

Can you give me an idea of what would be too much for you?

For me, it depends solely on whether, as a country, we are politically, socially and economically better off in the EU or not. Everybody will place different emphasis on different issues. For instance, national identity is important to me but not at the cost of poverty. Also, issues such as this aren't either/or - there are sliding scales. Bottom line is that, as things stand today, Ireland is infinitely better off in a strong and cohesive EU. If matters change fundamentally then we should reevaluate. As you ask for an example, a EU army (depending on size and purpose) might be too much integration for me.

wexfordman2

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Mate lifes too short.

Cheers, you reply, while short, reveals a lot about you.

Boredstiff666

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Cheers, you reply, while short, reveals a lot about you.

You would be shocked if you knew only a fraction.

wexfordman2

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Sinn Fein are already in government in the UK, in fact every political party this side of the border has encouraged it, including a referendum on this side of the border overwhelmingly voted in favour of SF going in to power in the north, in addition to similar loyat/unionist parties. That was 20years ago, you need to move with the times, or get over it.

We pushed for SF to go into government, everyone did, including all parts of the Irish government, the vast majority of Irish citizens, the vast majority of northern Irelands citizens, and the British government.

I think you need to read up on the difference between parliament and government.

cryptocurrency

Freeport’s, love it

wexfordman2

Aegir wrote: »

I think you need to read up on the difference between parliament and government.

Why do you think that ?

Peregrinus

Aegir wrote: »

I think you need to read up on the difference between parliament and government.

Sinn Fein are in the NI executive, which is one of the devolved governments of the UK, analogous to the Scottish government and the Welsh government. Sinn Fein are in government. In fact they have been in every government NI has had since 2007, so this is not a novelty.

ambro25

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Freeport’s, love it

You keep using that word...

...I don't think it means, what you think it means

PHG

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

PHG wrote: »

Figures suggest (and they are not greatly kept) that when you compare what Scotland receives from the UK vs what is puts in, is approx. net 0. So good job there!! England keep their submarines in Scotland, particularly the nuclear ones they own, so cannot see them chopping it off.........you really ought to check your facts.........besides money a lot of the work comes from down south as well and always has done........The shipyards are only open at the expence of the ones in England is just one example

Now, the Scottish referendum was based on Parliament saying that they would be staying in the EU, which has now been broken so definitely a contention for round 2.

Your posts come across as quite shouty, as in, I will shout very loud and thus I am right. Maybe look more to the facts than an isolated view.......Highlighting a text in a colour that stands out to reply to a quote is not shouty as you put it.

Side note, I have been to Scotland and it is a very stunning place in the right weather conditions. maybe you should book a trip to Edinburgh or the Highlands!! Actually, is there any place you don't detest?............I wasnt aware I had mentioned any place or anything I detested. You must be a mind reader with all this info you possess...all incorrect.


I too have been to Scotland. To quote my Glaswegian grandad......'why the hell would anybody want to go there?'.........he was correct. Probably why the whole rich family upped and moved south. I went around a fair bit of Scotland............You are correct. Very scenic.....through a glass double glazed window.

- I am checking my facts, where are yours? You don't provide anything credible bar hearsay

- You say you don't detest anywhere, your last point goes against your denial of it. At the minimum it is a severe disdain/dislike.

- It must be said that you seem to have inherited your traits from your Grandad. TBH though, my money is now on you being a troll. If you cannot provide evidence and just fiction and "life experiences" then no point entertaining you anymore.

Boredstiff666

PHG wrote: »

- I am checking my facts, where are yours? You don't provide anything credible bar hearsay

- You say you don't detest anywhere, your last point goes against your denial of it. At the minimum it is a severe disdain/dislike.

- It must be said that you seem to have inherited your traits from your Grandad. TBH though, my money is now on you being a troll. If you cannot provide evidence and just fiction and "life experiences" then no point entertaining you anymore.

Ahh well being as you know it all and all about me. I bow to your superior knowledge.

cryptocurrency

DAVID FROST LAYS DOWN UK RED LINES IN BRUSSELS

The Government’s chief future relationship negotiator David Frost set out the UK’s stall for future relationship agreement with the EU. It could hardly be more different from the approach taken under the previous government.

In his landmark speech at ULB Brussels University last night, Frost laid out the Burkean principles behind Brexit – explaining that British eurosceptics had always felt uncomfortable with the European imposition of a new order as opposed to the UK’s evolution over a millennium. He also touched on practical details shooting down the those who said that one year was too short a time to negotiate the future relationship, citing that the original Treaty of Rome “was negotiated and signed in just under 9 months”.

Perhaps most importantly of all, it was made clear that the UK is unafraid of more friction as a price of being an independent country. “we aim to manage it down as far as we can through modern customs facilitation arrangements – and I am convinced that other factors will outweigh it.” These other factors look to Guido like domestic regulatory innovation – supercharging the vast majority of the UK economy that does not trade with the EU…

Unlike Olly Robbins’ desire for a unique, aligned relationship, Frost made clear that the UK wants the same relationship that independent countries like Canada have with the EU – reiterating the Prime Minister’s point that the UK would not expect the EU to follow its high standards, and demanding a partnership of equals. He went on to set out in no uncertain terms the whole point of Brexit:

It is central to our vision that we must have the ability to set laws that suit us – to claim the right that every other non-EU country in the world has. So to think that we might accept EU supervision on so-called level playing field issues simply fails to see the point of what we are doing. That isn’t a simple negotiating position which might move under pressure – it is the point of the whole project. That’s also why we are not going to extend the transition period beyond the end of this year. At the end of this year, we would recover our political and economic independence in full – why would we want to postpone it? That is the point of Brexit.




From Guido but last paragraph is his actual quote

cryptocurrency

Love the way the media is going ape over even the first day of negotiations being in Brussels and not London, really setting the tone to Boris and Co that even a concession such as that is the next thing to a surrender. This drumming up of the hardening of public opinion really does take even more wriggle room away from the Tories. It's no deal or bust now.

cryptocurrency

Leo is avoiding both SF and FF like the plague because he knows his brexit strategy has been a disaster but wants to insist that when it goes south, it was all grand when he left it. Sneaky.

I noticed his former minister for information, Irelands comical Ali has not been making his constant tweets sniping about brexit since he become a TD. Another one distancing himself now.

Leroy42

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Love the way the media is going ape over even the first day of negotiations being in Brussels and not London, really setting the tone to Boris and Co that even a concession such as that is the next thing to a surrender. This drumming up of the hardening of public opinion really does take even more wriggle room away from the Tories. It's no deal or bust now.

No deal is bust.

No deal means that essentially Brexit, as it was offered, is a complete failure. No easiest trade deal, no they need us more.

cryptocurrency

Leroy42 wrote: »

No deal is bust.

No deal means that essentially Brexit, as it was offered, is a complete failure. No easiest trade deal, no they need us more.

Erm wut

It can be the easiest...EU wants to not do that with it's neighbour then it must be remembered. Not friends, not allies, just enemies. Grand.

Kermit.de.frog

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Leo is avoiding both SF and FF like the plague because he knows his brexit strategy has been a disaster but wants to insist that when it goes south, it was all grand when he left it. Sneaky.

I noticed his former minister for information, Irelands comical Ali has not been making his constant tweets sniping about brexit since he become a TD. Another one distancing himself now.

Perhaps you need to read the withdrawal agreement.

https://twitter.com/StefaanDeRynck/status/1228994527156940801

ambro25

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Love the way the media is going ape over even the first day of negotiations being in Brussels and not London, really setting the tone to Boris and Co that even a concession such as that is the next thing to a surrender. This drumming up of the hardening of public opinion really does take even more wriggle room away from the Tories. It's no deal or bust now.

There is a difference?