Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

weisses

Eric Cartman wrote: »

and if they pull it off youll have a few other countries repeating it to try avoid the scourge of non EU migrants flooding countries.

I think for the countries considered non EU migrants would be the least of their worries

weisses

Eric Cartman wrote: »

thats part of the governments plan,

step 1 : stop importing more people who do nothing
step 2 : get your current do nothings to do something.

Noble idea ... which is not gonna work

First Up

Eric Cartman wrote:

and if they pull it off youll have a few other countries repeating it to try avoid the scourge of non EU migrants flooding countries.

What will the UK be able to do about non -EU immigrants when outside the EU that it cannot do now?

Eric Cartman

weisses wrote: »

Noble idea ... which is not gonna work

atleast theyre trying instead of just going 'ohh well it happens'

Thargor

This Elgin Marbles business is going to be entertaining, I hope the EU make their return to Greece a red line issue. Sky News being surprisingly sympathetic to Greeces position all evening. Its crazy the UK think they can hold on to another nations national treasure like that.

Professor Moriarty

Thargor wrote: »

This Elgin Marbles business is going to be entertaining, I hope the EU make their return to Greece a red line issue. Sky News being surprisingly sympathetic to Greeces position all evening. Its crazy the UK think they can hold on to another nations national treasure like that.

The problem for Britain is that agreeing to return the Elgin Marbles will open the floodgates.

weisses

Eric Cartman wrote: »

atleast theyre trying instead of just going 'ohh well it happens'

They are not trying anything .... Its still all political BS at this stage

Nothing stopped the people on the dole from working when the UK was in the EU and even the government did feck all about it ... Nothing changed after brexit other then the Tories creating more unrest on an already tight labor market

Bit cynical

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The problem for Britain is that agreeing to return the Elgin Marbles will open the floodgates.

The Gibraltar thing probably opens more floodgates. It will be interesting if the EU makes that a red line.

Imreoir2

Bit cynical wrote: »

The Gibraltar thing probably opens more floodgates. It will be interesting if the EU makes that a red line.

What exactly do you think the "Gibraltar thing" is?

irishproduce

A lot of talk that the new regime on immigration would lead to increase costs and the like. Why is that a bad thing? The British chose a new way for their country, they may well be willing to both role their sleeves up and get on with it with new pride and vigour in their state.
Paying a bit more for a better outcome is not new. It's very difficult to have cheap and good quality.
Think of it like buying a house, yes you can get cheap houses but they're likely to be where people don't want to live.
Likewise, having a British indigenous workforce greeting you at the various cafés bars garages and workshops - if you are seeking to have same greeting you - might just be worth paying a little more for.
It's not proven that the Brits want cheap and British. They might have factored in paying a bit more to have their British.

Boredstiff666

Bit cynical wrote: »

The Gibraltar thing probably opens more floodgates. It will be interesting if the EU makes that a red line.

The Gibraltar thing is actually in a legal agreement between countries that Britain should have Gibraltar.

It wasn't stolen or whisked away when the Spanish werent looking. It was actually given away by the Spanish in reparations for their endless wars and aggression against other nations. In this case Britain and Holland.

They got away lightly considering.

On a similar point Germany still owes hundreds possibly thousands of billions for their little escapades which they have never paid.

Be quite interesting if they started pushing for a Gibraltar style claim. Then you would see floodgates open from numerous countries.

Peregrinus

irishproduce wrote: »

A lot of talk that the new regime on immigration would lead to increase costs and the like. Why is that a bad thing? The British chose a new way for their country, they may well be willing to both role their sleeves up and get on with it with new pride and vigour in their state.
Paying a bit more for a better outcome is not new. It's very difficult to have cheap and good quality.
Think of it like buying a house, yes you can get cheap houses but they're likely to be where people don't want to live.
Likewise, having a British indigenous workforce greeting you at the various cafés bars garages and workshops - if you are seeking to have same greeting you - might just be worth paying a little more for.
It's not proven that the Brits want cheap and British. They might have factored in paying a bit more to have their British.

If they want to increase payrates for unskilled service jobs so that they meet the expectations of indigenous British workers, they don't need to Brexit to do that, or to restrict immigration. They same result can be acheived at far less cost and disruption by just raising the minimum wage, and enforcing minimum wages and conditions of employment laws.

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

The Gibraltar thing is actually in a legal agreement between countries that Britain should have Gibraltar.

It wasn't stolen or whisked away when the Spanish werent looking. It was actually given away by the Spanish in reparations for their endless wars and aggression against other nations. In this case Britain and Holland.

They got away lightly considering.

The Treaty of Utrecht ended the War of the Spanish Succession which started because other countries, including Great Britain, felt that they should have the right to say who the King of Spain would be, and because they didn't want to see France become too powerful.

The notion that it had anything to do with Spain's "endless wars and aggression against other nations" is profoundly historically ignorant. But profound historical ignorance has always been one of the foundations of Brexitry, so it is unsurprising to find it in this thread.

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

On a similar point Germany still owes hundreds possibly thousands of billions for their little escapades which they have never paid.

Be quite interesting if they started pushing for a Gibraltar style claim. Then you would see floodgates open from numerous countries.

This is about disputed territories. You can hardly compare the border dispute of Dollart Bay to Gibraltar.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

The Treaty of Utrecht ended the War of the Spanish Succession which started because other countries, including Great Britain, felt that they should have the right to say who the King of Spain would be, and because they didn't want to see France become too powerful.

The notion that it had anything to do with Spain's "endless wars and aggression against other nations" is profoundly historically ignorant. But profound historical ignorance has always been one of the foundations of Brexitry, so it is unsurprising to find it in this thread.

Yes But you have glossed over Spains continuous attempts to invade other nations including Britain and what they did elsewhere in the world. So one event is not the true or whole story. You might want to bring in the South Americans as well when you start talking of claims?

Boredstiff666

tuxy wrote: »

This is about disputed territories. You can hardly compare the border dispute of Dollart Bay to Gibraltar.

I am not talking about Dollart Bay. I am talking about as someone else put it 'opening the flood gates'. Germany still owes for the killing of millions and the destruction of other countries from WW! and later 'Ve are ze master race' activities. Those debts have never been repaid. Some were mysteriously behind closed doors just kind of quietly written off by just a few individuals.

So my point is.........you want to start talking of putting old unfinished business to rights, returning artifacts and returning old bits of land. Then you had better be prepared for other claims to be corrected as well. Germany must owe more than it could possibly repay in a hundred years and thats recent living history not going back 500 years. Where will it end?

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Yes But you have glossed over Spains continuous attempts to invade other nations including Britain and what they did elsewhere in the world. So one event is not the true or whole story. You might want to bring in the South Americans as well when you start talking of claims?

Where have I talked of claims?

You seem to think that Spain's attempt to invade England in 1588 operates as some kind of justification for Great Britain declaring war on Spain in 1701, or is in some way remotely relevant to it.

I'll just say this; nobody who was trying in 1701 to defend or justify the British declaration of war was so stupid as to advance this justification. And if Great Britain never thought it was a justification, you shouuld probably bandon the attempt to pretend that it is.

You are clearly out of your depth here. If I were you I would stop digging. You cannot improve your position by continuing to parade your ignorance.

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

. . . Germany must owe more than it could possibly repay in a hundred years . . .

In fairness, so must the UK.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

Where have I talked of claims?

You seem to think that Spain's attempt to invade England in 1588 operates as some kind of justification for Great Britain declaring war on Spain in 1701, or is in some way remotely relevant to it.

I'll just say this; nobody who was trying in 1701 to defend or justify the British declaration of war was so stupid as to advance this justification. And if Great Britain never thought it was a justification, you shouuld probably bandon the attempt to pretend that it is.

You are clearly out of your depth here. If I were you I would stop digging. You cannot improve your position by continuing to parade your ignorance.

I dont think so. It wasn't just one attempt it was constant conflict for years. With each country having the upper hand from time to time.

Now if I had attacked you with the comments of ....'parade your ignorance'....I would have been reported to the mods.:)

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

In fairness, so must the UK.

Do not ever try and compare what they did with anything that the UK could possibly be accused of. They were off the scale.

But like I said........were will it end?

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Do not ever try and compare what they did with anything that the UK could possibly be accused of. They were off the scale.

I didn't. I measured the UK against the standard that you suggested. If we assign liabilities for the historic wrongs of states, does this state owe more than it could possibly repay in a hundred years? The answer for the UK is unquestionably "yes", given that it had a larger empire, exploiting more people, over a longer period, than any other state in history.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

I didn't. I measured the UK against the standard that you suggested. If we assign liabilities for the historic wrongs of states, does this state owe more than it could possibly repay in a hundred years? The answer for the UK is unquestionably "yes", given that it had a larger empire, exploiting more people, over a longer period, than any other state in history.

Britains empire as you call it never included the stuff that Germans did.

All this just ended 75 years ago and a lot of people still alive with tons of film footage of their atrocities as proof.

Even Greece has made a recent claim and strangely been silenced of late.

Your precious EU would be gone tomorrow if those claims opened up as Germany would be gone as well. Including those companies which were involved.

CelticRambler

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Low end jobs are not about what you want to do, its about your duty to do a job to sustain yourself and your family, choosing to work is not an option you get to make unless you can support yourself with other money not from the state safety net.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

could britain have done this exact policy while in the EU ?

A fundamental provision of the EU's rules on freedom of movement: be able to support yourself in your host country or stay at home.

But the UK (and Ireland, FWIW) decided not to apply this rule.

Instead (and thank you for providing the graph) Brexiters have deliberately chosen put up new barriers against the immigration of those most likely to work hard and pay taxes, while taking deliberate and not-so-deliberate steps to increase the numbers of parasitic migrants, i.e. non-EU migrants, over whom - by definition - the EU has no control.

How is this new points-based system going to improve the UK's situation with regard to the camp of migrants I saw on Sunday in Ouistreham, all hoping to find a way onto the ferry to Portsmouth? Or the Asians being trafficked into London by Northern Irish lorry drivers?

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Britains empire as you call it never included the stuff that Germans did.

I repeat; I never said that it did.

And, if you call on other posters not to compare Britain to Germany then you should probably stop comparing Britain to Germany. It just feeds into the perception that Brexiters generally feel that they can lay down rules which others must obey but they themselves need not, which is probably not the kind of impression you want to promote.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

I repeat; I never said that it did.

And, if you call on other posters not to compare Britain to Germany then you should probably stop comparing Britain to Germany. It just feeds into the perception that Brexiters generally feel that they can lay down rules which others must obey but they themselves need not, which is probably not the kind of impression you want to promote.

I am not I am replying to where it was mention the floodgates can open up.

My personal view is whats done is done but if stupid claims are going to arise of land which was legally ceded and artifacts being returned. Then you may as well go the whole hog and get Germany to pay for their very recent history. The result will be the EU will gone tomorrow morning.

Peregrinus

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I am not I am replying to where it was mention the floodgates can open up.

My personal view is whats done is done but if stupid claims are going to arise of land which was legally ceded and artifacts being returned. Then you may as well go the whole hog and get Germany to pay for their very recent history. The result will be the EU will gone tomorrow morning.

But it's Brexiters, and the Brexit press, who are hyperventilating about land and artefacts being returned. Spain has not asked for the return of Gibraltar in the context of Brexit; nor has Greece asked for the return of the Elgin marbles. All the hairy-chested bellowing about this comes from the Brexit-supporting press (as I have pointed out more than once in this very thread) and you deciding to raise the question of war crimes reparations on top of that looks like the same pattern of behaviour - make a drama out of everything, and then dramatically accuse the EU of being aggressive.

theological

It is also a lot of Europhiles on this thread also to be fair.

Everyone knows that this is a minor item that will be shelved pretty early.

From reports I've seen they are in draft EU negotiating documents. So saying they are imagined by Brexiteers is false.

cryptocurrency

Lots of bickering here. Has the die hard EU lovers admitted they are getting pummeled by Boris and co yet or are we still in the EU is bigger and badder stage.

When will the next stage begin?

It’s a process lads, a process.

Peregrinus

theological wrote: »

It is also a lot of Europhiles on this thread also to be fair.

Everyone knows that this is a minor item that will be shelved pretty early.

From reports I've seen they are in draft EU negotiating documents. So saying they are imagined by Brexiteers is false.

There is no mention of the Elgin Marbles in any EU document related to Brexit, draft or otherwise. While there is mention of Gibraltar, there is no claim for the cession of the territory back to Spain, or for the renunciation of UK sovereignty over the territory.

Boredstiff666

Peregrinus wrote: »

But it's Brexiters, and the Brexit press, who are hyperventilating about land and artefacts being returned. Spain has not asked for the return of Gibraltar in the context of Brexit; nor has Greece asked for the return of the Elgin marbles. All the hairy-chested bellowing about this comes from the Brexit-supporting press (as I have pointed out more than once in this very thread) and you deciding to raise the question of war crimes reparations on top of that looks like the same pattern of behaviour - make a drama out of everything, and then dramatically accuse the EU of being aggressive.

Oh I see. I see your point now. But it was reported on those 2 items in the internet papers so I just thought that was the proposed deals.