Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Well if todays an example I must say your measure of success is like the bottom of a division team winning their last match but still getting relegated and claiming it was a great day.

See post above: what happened today that you are using as an example, and an example of what?

Boredstiff666

CelticRambler wrote: »

Zippity-zip, nada, nothing. A big fat zero.


Zippity-zip, nada, nothing. A big fat zero.

Spot the difference?

If you have information that suggests Macron has "secured" anything from anyone, it might be a good idea to share a (factually reliable) link, otherwise we risk a repeat of your "immigrants get 500€ a month in Germany" misunderstanding.

They may not have signed it yet but this is a 'done deal' for many reasons and one is Macron has to do this otherwise he is out and possibly an anti-EU is in. So France gets to keep its lucrative subsidies. https://thefloridapost.com/eu-budget-blunder-france-forced-to-deny-macron-secured-370billion-farming-subsidies/

What is Leo getting except most possibly a bigger EU bill?

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

They may not have signed it yet but this is a 'done deal' for many reasons and one is Macron has to do this otherwise he is out and possibly an anti-EU is in. So France gets to keep its lucrative subsidies. https://thefloridapost.com/eu-budget-blunder-france-forced-to-deny-macron-secured-370billion-farming-subsidies/

What is Leo getting except most possibly a bigger EU bill?

Why has the Florida Post taken an Express article and rewritten it slightly?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1245428/EU-summit-news-budget-France-Emmanuel-Macron-latest-update

Boredstiff666

tuxy wrote: »

Why has the Florida Post taken an Express article and rewritten it slightly?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1245428/EU-summit-news-budget-France-Emmanuel-Macron-latest-update

I missed that. But on your point thats all any of them do. If you look at news headlines in other online papers where they all say a similar point of view. Then look at a well known Irish online news outlet afterwards. You will usually find one or two day old news re-written heaping praise on Gov or EU when in fact that wasnt the story.

Reporters are keyboard warriors nowadays.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yes I believe in climate change, youre not going to write me off with that.

I believe some EU countries need to do more internally in a policy manor , but I believe it needs to be done with a carrot approach and no more money should be paid to the EU and no new taxes levied on the public. As a body, the EU is miles ahead of asia, south america and africa on doing its part for climate change.

Countries within Europe, America, and Australia are extremely bad when it comes to CO2 emissions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

China: 8.
Ireland: 7.7.
Vietnam: 2.8.
Brazil: 2.4.
South Africa: 8.3.
Nigeria: 0.6.
Argentina: 3.8.
Thailand: 4.1.
Australia: 17.1.
The US: 19.2.
Germany: 9.1.
Estonia: 18.6.

I find the upset at the relatively little money being suggested in order to try and improve the world's biggest bloc's emissions to be bizarre. Perhaps it comes from your incorrect notions that the EU is doing a better job of it than Asia, South America, or Africa. That's like an alcoholic saying he's better than a sober person because he only drinks one bottle of whiskey now a day instead of one and a quarter.

What you're advocating is that EU countries can spend as much or as little as they like. In the grand scheme of things, that would be a travesty of a wasted opportunity at this one time in history where change is frantically needed. Imagine having a bloc of the world's richest countries with all of them being big emitters, and not using that bloc's existing framework to try and force a reduction in CO2, for a pittance. And then actually going so far as to use that effort as an excuse to go the other way, and reduce cooperation.

I can only take from it that you want Ireland to put in less effort than is being asked of it because otherwise, you would want every country to put in a similar effort.

Boredstiff666

Yesterday:

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I think there is a problem but possibly too late.

But I fail to see how or why a country which has contributed so little to the problem should share the cost of those who have...........just so they can carry on and not have their economy affected.

A week ago:

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Tell a German and a French family that they have to pay more when they already have for over 40 years. When Ireland has received many billions of their and Brit money. But Ireland can afford to pay now so those countries similar can do their part and step in and pay the missing money instead of expecting other countries to do it 'again'.

Thats only fair dont you think?

Which is it then? Your two posts are totally at odds with each other. One day you want Ireland to pay back what it owes for having its country built up like it has been, and another day, you baulk at the suggestion that Ireland contribute to this CO2 thing, wilfully ignoring that our current level is very high and saying it's only been high for a few years compared to Germany as a reason to not pay for it.

Ireland's few years: 7.7 / 7.6 / 8.9 / 9.1 / 10.8 / 9.6 / 8.9 / 8.8 / 7.8 / 7.7 / 7.5 / 7.3 / 8.1 / 7.7

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I missed that. But on your point thats all any of them do. If you look at news headlines in other online papers where they all say a similar point of view. Then look at a well known Irish online news outlet afterwards. You will usually find one or two day old news re-written heaping praise on Gov or EU when in fact that wasnt the story.

Reporters are keyboard warriors nowadays.

I could tell it was originally an article from a paper like the express who have a history of making such unbelievable claims(I realise pro EU publications lie also)
When another publication copies a report like this it is oblivious they have an agenda to push.

France is a net contributor to the EU currently by about €6 billion a year.
How have they secured €375 billion for their own farmers while remaining to contribute a surplus of €6 billion a year?
You can't hide that much money without other countries noticing.

Boredstiff666

tuxy wrote: »

I could tell it was originally an article from a paper like the express who have a history of making such unbelievable claims(I realise pro EU publications lie also)
When another publication copies a report like this it is oblivious they have an agenda to push.

France is a net contributor to the EU currently by about €6 billion a year.
How have they secured €375 billion for their own farmers while remaining to contribute a surplus of €6 billion a year?
You can't hide that much money without other countries noticing.

It doesnt say for their own farmers it says that Macron has managed to keep the budget as is which keeps his farmers happy.

Boredstiff666

Deleted User wrote: »

Yesterday:


A week ago:


Which is it then? Your two posts are totally at odds with each other. One day you want Ireland to pay back what it owes for having its country built up like it has been, and another day, you baulk at the suggestion that Ireland contribute to this CO2 thing, wilfully ignoring that our current level is very high and saying it's only been high for a few years compared to Germany as a reason to not pay for it.

Ireland's few years: 7.7 / 7.6 / 8.9 / 9.1 / 10.8 / 9.6 / 8.9 / 8.8 / 7.8 / 7.7 / 7.5 / 7.3 / 8.1 / 7.7

Why have you mixed up pollution amounts and money received from other nations? I do not understand.

Boredstiff666

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Why have you mixed up pollution amounts and money received from other nations? I do not understand.

I didn't really expect you to.

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

It doesnt say for their own farmers it says that Macron has managed to keep the budget as is which keeps his farmers happy.

Well that does make more sense.

But when the headline was written farming subsidies budget was £370billion(€442billion) and this had already fallen to €375 when they wrote the body of the article. This would suggest that the farming budget negotiation are still ongoing.

Boredstiff666

tuxy wrote: »

Well that does make more sense.

But when the headline was written farming subsidies budget was £370billion(€442billion) and this had already fallen to €375 when they wrote the body of the article. This would suggest that the farming budget negotiation are still ongoing.

Yes but Irish farmers will possibly get less this year which is why Leo was so unhappy and of course the extra payments wanted from him. But if the Agri budget stops the same for France which it will to help Macron then he will be happy.

Boredstiff666

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't really expect you to.

???????????????

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Yes but Irish farmers will possibly get less this year which is why Leo was so unhappy and of course the extra payments wanted from him. But if the Agri budget stops the same for France which it will to help Macron then he will be happy.

How can you know this when the farming budget subsidies drooped €67 billion the day that article was posted?
The budget is still undecided.

Boredstiff666

tuxy wrote: »

How can you know this when the farming budget subsidies drooped €67 billion the day that article was posted?
The budget is still undecided.

Watch........As I said earlier. Macron needs it. If he goes back with less he is finished. They wont let that happen because his replacement will most likely be an anti.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back with more.

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Watch........As I said earlier. Macron needs it. If he goes back with less he is finished. They wont let that happen because his replacement will most likely be an anti.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back with more.

But why was he so fast to renegotiate the amount he secured?
Why would he work behind the scenes to lower the subsidy from €442 billion to €375 billion if he had already secured the higher amount?
I'm struggling to find any logic from that article.

Leroy42

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

Watch........As I said earlier. Macron needs it. If he goes back with less he is finished. They wont let that happen because his replacement will most likely be an anti.

I wouldn't be surprised if he goes back with more.

So is it a done deal or not? Your point was Macron had got this, Leo was stuffed.

Is that what happened or not?

tuxy

Leroy42 wrote: »

So is it a done deal or not? Your point was Macron had got this, Leo was stuffed.

Is that what happened or not?

If that article is correct Macron secured the £370billion (€442 billion)
But then Paris went over his head to only secure €375 billion.

Macron and Paris are currently fighting for influence over the EU's decision on the farming budget decision.

It is unclear if this will benefit Leo and Ireland.

tuxy

This Express.co.uk is a fascinating website.

After all these years its finally happened, the UK have regained their identity.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1245772/uk-news-british-blue-passport-return-new-design-boris-johnson-national-identity

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

They may not have signed it yet but this is a 'done deal' for many reasons and one is Macron has to do this otherwise he is out and possibly an anti-EU is in. So France gets to keep its lucrative subsidies. https://thefloridapost.com/eu-budget-blunder-france-forced-to-deny-macron-secured-370billion-farming-subsidies/

What is Leo getting except most possibly a bigger EU bill?

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

It doesnt say for their own farmers it says that Macron has managed to keep the budget as is which keeps his farmers happy.

To be clear then, your proof of Macron's "victory" (and the shafting of "Leo") is an article appearing in a US-based newspaper, citing reports in a Brexit-supporting British newspaper of a line in an unpublished German negotiating document that someone happened to catch a glimpse of?

But let's run with that for a minute: now you're saying that Macron has secured a huge pile of money for the EU's farmers and their CAP fund? So that's good for Ireland, isn't it, seeing as Ireland and France are pretty much 100% aligned on this point against countries like Austria and the Netherlands, and they share the CAP pot?

Voilà: little ol' Ireland benefits from EU membership, being able to leverage the support of 60-million Frenchmen against the Krauts. So it's "Merkel" who's been shafted - zeig heil! :P

Boredstiff666

CelticRambler wrote: »

To be clear then, your proof of Macron's "victory" (and the shafting of "Leo") is an article appearing in a US-based newspaper, citing reports in a Brexit-supporting British newspaper of a line in an unpublished German negotiating document that someone happened to catch a glimpse of?

But let's run with that for a minute: now you're saying that Macron has secured a huge pile of money for the EU's farmers and their CAP fund? So that's good for Ireland, isn't it, seeing as Ireland and France are pretty much 100% aligned on this point against countries like Austria and the Netherlands, and they share the CAP pot?

Voilà: little ol' Ireland benefits from EU membership, being able to leverage the support of 60-million Frenchmen against the Krauts. So it's "Merkel" who's been shafted - zeig heil! :P

I wasnt providing as you call it proof.

But what that story tells me together with the reports in Irish papers that Leo aint happy and they are arguing over budget is.

That although the Agri budget has been reduced to keep in with cuts. france will not have their Agri budget affected and others will.........probably Ireland.

So I will wager on that is what will happen when agreement is reached.........you can then refer back to this post....but I think in next few days?

tuxy

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

I wasnt providing as you call it proff.

But what that story tells me together with the reports in Irish papers that Leo aint happy and they are arguing over budget is.

Do you have a source for that story that's not full of inconsistencies?

Padre_Pio

tuxy wrote: »

This Express.co.uk is a fascinating website.

After all these years its finally happened, the UK have regained their identity.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1245772/uk-news-british-blue-passport-return-new-design-boris-johnson-national-identity

They'll be changing their passports again when NI and Scotland leave.

CelticRambler

Boredstiff666 wrote: »

That although the Agri budget has been reduced to keep in with cuts. france will not have their Agri budget affected and others will.........probably Ireland.

So I will wager on that is what will happen when agreement is reached.........you can then refer back to this post....but I think in next few days?

Why are you in such a rush now to try to make out that these ongoing negotiating positions have suddenly become definitive? You think that 27 states who know that they've still got 10 months to argue their case - on many more points than just agri-subs - will suddenly get it all sorted out in a few days?

What happened to "the EU always does its deals at the last minute" so often proclaimed by Brexiters in the recent past? Have you forgotten already that it was pointed out that yes, between ourselves, we do indeed bicker and squabble until the eleventh hour.

Boredstiff666

CelticRambler wrote: »

Why are you in such a rush now to try to make out that these ongoing negotiating positions have suddenly become definitive? You think that 27 states who know that they've still got 10 months to argue their case - on many more points than just agri-subs - will suddenly get it all sorted out in a few days?

What happened to "the EU always does its deals at the last minute" so often proclaimed by Brexiters in the recent past? Have you forgotten already that it was pointed out that yes, between ourselves, we do indeed bicker and squabble until the eleventh hour.

Because the whole budget has to be reduced and now they want more dosh from each country to pay for the enviro idea.

There is no way Macron can go back to France with any kind of reduction to farmers because he would be finished being as the elections are at most 2 years away so the budget cuts if there were any would be in force or fresh when the elections are held.......(cuts agreed now start following year).

So Macron can only get good news for farmers. If you know about French farmers they will bring France to its knees if they have a grudge and have done in past.

So basically he cant lose out.....budget to be reduced.....then other countries will carry the loss.

There is no debate in this unless you want Le Pen and co in charge of France. Last year he could have got away with it but not this year and certainly not next.

fly_agaric

So I take a look at the thread again & see post after post after post from the Brexit boosters obsessing about the minutae of EU budget wrangles, effects on the EU member state politics etc.
Here's me thinking the UK had upped & left the EU, bye bye EU bye bye and all that. After all, we've been repeatedly told on this thread to just get over it, shut up about it, what the UK does now in it's post-EU future is really none of Ireland's business incl. as regards NI's future.
Remove the beam in your own eye and all that.:pac:

Boredstiff666

Keep it going.....more money!

Leroy42

What deficit in the budget are we talking about?

12bn was the UK annual payment, but then offset that is UK won't be taking out any funds ( or is 12bn the Net?).

From what I can gather the real argument is that the EU want an increased budget to deal with Climate Change, green energy etc.

But even so, 10bn or 12bn is hardly a stop given the overall size of the budget.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote: »

So I take a look at the thread again & see post after post after post from the Brexit boosters obsessing about the minutae of EU budget wrangles, effects on the EU member state politics etc.
Here's me thinking the UK had upped & left the EU, bye bye EU bye bye and all that. After all, we've been repeatedly told on this thread to just get over it, shut up about it, what the UK does now in it's post-EU future is really none of Ireland's business incl. as regards NI's future.
Remove the beam in your own eye and all that.:pac:

We've repeatedly been told this by posters who say that they live here, easy to talk about how great it's going to be now for the U.K. when you don't live there.

Boredstiff666

DubInMeath wrote: »

We've repeatedly been told this by posters who say that they live here, easy to talk about how great it's going to be now for the U.K. when you don't live there.

You may also feed anti Brexit topics from people who live in the UK. So what is your point?