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Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

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    #1922
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davedanon wrote: »
    Did you miss my post where I quoted The Lancet saying that govt. policy was being dictated by an unelected ideologue with no medical expertise, and that this wasn't a good thing?

    can you point to the actual quote, because although I see criticism of the government response, I see no mention of Dominic Cummings


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    #1923
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Aegir wrote: »
    can you point to the actual quote, because although I see criticism of the government response, I see no mention of Dominic Cummings

    Sorry, it was in this tweet.


    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1237737541224316929?s=20


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    #1924
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    theological wrote: »
    I saw it, but it is disinformation to say the Government aren't working with medical professionals. The Chief Medical Officer and the Deputy Chief Medical Officer have actually advised against drastic action at this stage.



    For example banning everyone from travelling to particular countries is extreme. Forcibly closing businesses and schools might also be extreme at this stage.

    What is essential is that the government follows medical advice which it is doing.

    They may be 'working' with them, but not necessarily taking their advice. And banning people was Trump's idea. I would have thought you were a big fan of his.


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    #1925
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davedanon wrote: »
    Sorry, it was in this tweet.


    https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1237737541224316929?s=20

    So no actual facts then, just the use of Cummings the bogeyman again.


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    #1926
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    davedanon wrote: »
    They may be 'working' with them, but not necessarily taking their advice. And banning people was Trump's idea. I would have thought you were a big fan of his.

    What makes you think they haven't been taking their advice?

    Johnson actually published a four minute interview with the Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Jenny Harries on Twitter yesterday .

    The UK have done a pretty good job on coronavirus so far. The cases are fewer than in many other countries.


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    #1927
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    theological wrote: »
    What makes you think they haven't been taking their advice?

    Johnson actually published a four minute interview with the Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Jenny Harries on Twitter yesterday .

    The UK have done a pretty good job on coronavirus so far. The cases are fewer than in many other countries.

    Wake up. They are just behind on the curve. Might be something to do with the English channel.


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    #1928
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Aegir wrote: »
    So no actual facts then, just the use of Cummings the bogeyman again.

    On this thread? Do you want an actual quote from Dom? It's an anonymous source from within Whitehall. It's credible.


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    #1929
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davedanon wrote: »
    On this thread? Do you want an actual quote from Dom? It's an anonymous source from within Whitehall. It's credible.

    so not a quote from the Lancet as you originally claimed then, just that the Prime Minister is taking all advice and the medical advisors think he is leaning too much towards the financial advisors, one of which may, or may not be, Dominic Cummings.


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    #1930
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Aegir wrote: »
    so not a quote from the Lancet as you originally claimed then, just that the Prime Minister is taking all advice and the medical advisors think he is leaning too much towards the financial advisors, one of which may, or may not be, Dominic Cummings.

    Wow, you got me! I admit it, I'm peddling LIES on the internet. Well done.


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    #1931
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Aegir wrote: »
    so not a quote from the Lancet as you originally claimed then, just that the Prime Minister is taking all advice and the medical advisors think he is leaning too much towards the financial advisors, one of which may, or may not be, Dominic Cummings.

    They aren't financial advisors, and Cummings isn't one either. And Boris is on record saying "maybe we should just take it on the chin". Cummings is known to wield enormous influence. He is hated for his methods. I don't know about you, but those dots look easily connected to me


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    #1932
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davedanon wrote: »
    Wow, you got me! I admit it, I'm peddling LIES on the internet. Well done.

    We agree then.


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    #1933
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    davedanon wrote: »
    This has been a pretty consistent topic flogged by the Brexit fanbois on here, too. Britain is bigger, more important, more politically & economically significant and has a bigger military presence, than it in reality actually represents.

    Kind of sums up the whole Brexiter worldview, really.
    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Can you provide a link regarding your claim Britain is exaggerating its military presence and importance? The only details I can find clearly shows that after the US,Britain spends the most as part of NATO which clearly contradicts your assertion.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/584035/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/
    davedanon wrote: »
    Clearly you didn't even read my post, or you would have seen that I made no such claim. I stated that posters on here were exaggerating Britain's power and influence. Hope that helps.
    Aegir wrote: »
    So no actual facts then, just the use of Cummings the bogeyman again.
    He has form for saying stuff then denying it!:pac:


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    #1934
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Aegir wrote: »
    We agree then.

    I see I should have warned that my post might have contained traces of sarcasm. I apologise for crediting you with undue intelligence.


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    #1935
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Exactly.. It's amazing. We should mod crypto for the craic so he can't get banned.

    You really need to get back to work lad :-)


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    #1936
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    davedanon wrote: »
    I see I should have warned that my post might have contained traces of sarcasm. I apologise for crediting you with undue intelligence.

    Is that the sound of toys being thrown out of the prom?


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    #1937
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    'pram'.

    And no.


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    #1938
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Given the COVID-9 situation, the next session of UK/EU trade agreement talks, which was to start in London on Tuesday, will not now be held "in the form originally scheduled". They are going to "explore alternative ways to continue discussions", including possibly video conferences.

    However the UK government still says - for public consumption anyway - that they will not invoke or agree to the invocation of the clause in the WA which would allows the transitional period period to be extended beyond 31 December, and that the COVID-19 situation is not a reason for them to reconsider this position.


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    #1939
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Apalled at the reports Johnson is to allow spread of coronavirus to create 'herd immunity' in UK.

    Herd immunity is something you hope will develop naturally in the future, not something you actively seek by encouraging the spread of a disease.

    The Tories really are evil bastards. Johnson, Cummings et all seemingly prepared to twist anything to their purposes, up to and including a deadly a virus.

    The North have to unilaterally take their own steps to combat this if London dithers.


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    #1940
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    Apalled at the reports Johnson is to allow spread of coronavirus to create 'herd immunity' in UK.

    Herd immunity is something you hope will develop naturally in the future, not something you actively seek by encouraging the spread of a disease.

    The Tories really are evil bastards. Johnson, Cummings et all seemingly prepared to twist anything to their purposes, up to and including a deadly a virus.

    The North have to unilaterally take their own steps to combat this if London dithers.

    They are acting on the advice they have been given which is to slow down the spread so that public health services can cope. By the by I think that they have done a pretty good job so far. The reported cases in the UK are lower than in other large European countries.

    Doing drastic things like closing businesses and schools is inappropriate at this stage. A scenario where you potentially have children exposed to the virus with grandparents isn't a helpful one.

    Doing things that are fruitless for the sake of it just to be seen to be doing something isn't clever.


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    #1941
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    theological wrote: »
    They are acting on the advice they have been given which is to slow down the spread so that public health services can cope. By the by I think that they have done a pretty good job so far. The reported cases in the UK are lower than in other large European countries.

    Doing drastic things like closing businesses and schools is inappropriate at this stage. A scenario where you potentially have children exposed to the virus with grandparents isn't a helpful one.

    Doing things that are fruitless for the sake of it just to be seen to be doing something isn't clever.

    That'll be the rest of Europe, then. Just doing stuff for the sake of it. Will you recant on this nonsense if/when the UK's case numbers match those elsewhere in Europe? They're just a week or so behind mainland Europe, probably thanks to that channel thingy.


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    #1942
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Guardian piece on the science (sic) behind the UK's coronavirus policy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/why-is-the-government-relying-on-nudge-theory-to-tackle-coronavirus

    As it says, the island of Ireland will be the perfect lab test for the two approaches - in the north, the schools are open, and it's 'wash your hands, keep your distance'. In the south, schools closed. We'll find out very quickly and starkly which approach works best. It's worth stressing that Europe & Ireland's policy is based on medical science and best epidemiological practices. The UK's is more to do with behavioural economics. Or as someone put it:

    "Cummings has read The Tipping Point."


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    #1943
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    davedanon wrote: »
    Guardian piece on the science (sic) behind the UK's coronavirus policy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/why-is-the-government-relying-on-nudge-theory-to-tackle-coronavirus

    As it says, the island of Ireland will be the perfect lab test for the two approaches - in the north, the schools are open, and it's 'wash your hands, keep your distance'. In the south, schools closed. We'll find out very quickly and starkly which approach works best. It's worth stressing that Europe & Ireland's policy is based on medical science and best epidemiological practices. The UK's is more to do with behavioural economics. Or as someone put it:

    "Cummings has read The Tipping Point."

    Another unfounded claim in bold. I guess we won't be getting any explanation for why that is indeed the case.


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    #1944
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I have faith in the NHS and Public Health England to know what they're on about. I don't know if they've been listened to but if this is what they have advised then I am not worried.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #1945
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    theological wrote: »
    Another unfounded claim in bold. I guess we won't be getting any explanation for why that is indeed the case.

    This poster is obsessed with Dominic Cummings.

    Apparently he shot Bambi’s mum


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    #1946
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,617 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I think it is perfectly reasonable to question the UK current plan on Coronavirus. Remember that these are the guys that had no plan for Brexit, still have no basis for their decisions.

    The Tory party have just announced a budget that basically says that the last 10 years of austerity were a complete waste and actually far from JC being wrong on investment, he didn't go far enough.

    So whilst I agree that in certain cases it seems that the UK government are being unfairly judged atm in relation to Coronavirus, I completely understand why so many people have no faith or place no credibility in them.

    That has to be earned, and Johnson and Cummins have spent the last few years lying, joking and seemingly preferring chaos over planning.


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    #1947
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    Questioning is good providing that the questioning has good basis. If it doesn't however and if it involves unsubstantiated claims then the questioning is turned in the other direction.

    So far I think we've seen good handling of this from No 10.


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    #1948
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,617 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    theological wrote: »
    Questioning is good providing that the questioning has good basis. If it doesn't however and if it involves unsubstantiated claims then the questioning is turned in the other direction.

    So far I think we've seen good handling of this from No 10.

    So you keep saying, and that is fine to have that opinion. But that is all it is. You think it is right that Johnson came out and said that maybe they should just let the virus rip through the county?

    The problem with questioning is that people have different standards. Johnson is basically allowed to make up any old rubbish (£350m pw) without any comeback, yet you expect others to have far higher standards. But it is precisely because of Cummins and Johnson that the standards have dropped so low, so complaining that others use the same standard, whilst at the same time giving kudos to Johnson, seems odd.


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    #1949
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    Based on the medical advice they've received from the Chief Medical Officer the virus will spread. It is a case of trying to control when it peaks.

    For the record Leo Varadkar basically said the same thing in respect to Ireland. He said there will be many more cases in Ireland. That's a reality.


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    #1950
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,617 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    theological wrote: »
    Based on the medical advice they've received from the Chief Medical Officer the virus will spread. It is a case of trying to control when it peaks.

    For the record Leo Varadkar basically said the same thing in respect to Ireland. He said there will be many more cases in Ireland. That's a reality.

    Sure, everyone expects the virus to spread, but the UK are now almost alone in their approach. We saw what the failure of strong decisive action did to Italy, yet the UK have decided that the best course of action is to wait.

    Now, I have no idea which is the best course of action, I have no insight into the advice any of the governments are being given save for what we hear in government press conferences etc.

    The issue is that Johnson, aligned with Cummins, have zero credibility. Johnson has lied and failed to provide evidence on the other big issue, Brexit, that it is very reasonsable to assume that they are following the same approach.

    Johnson et al have told us for the last 4 years that experts haven't a clue, that forecasts are meaningless, that nothing can be known. Why are you now willing to believe that they have suddenly become converts and completely changed their modus operandi from being based on feelings and a more than a hint of nationalism to one being grounded on evidence and experts?


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    #1951
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    You are making claims in spite of the evidence in respect to the UK's handling of this. Johnson's decision making is based on what he's being told by experts. The Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Officer were present and have been present throughout.

    Closing schools won't have much of an impact on the spread of the virus.

    I think some people just want the UK government to do drastic things in spite of the evidence that would just exacerbate things.


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