Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

coastwatch

AllForIt wrote: »

Herd immunity is not a policy of the UK gov, it's simply a fact.

Their chief medial reps made a very strong case that outdoor events don't pose much of a threat i.e Cheltenham, in contrast to indoor gathering which pose much more of a threat with this particular virus.

What is happening here is the same ole remainers attacking a Brexit gov in whatever way they can. Which I think is despicable during this crisis.

To clarify, the UK policy is to isolate (lockdown) the elderly (most vulnurable) for 4 months+, beginning in a couple of weeks time. Then, 60% or more of rest of the population is expected to become infected over the coming months and then recover, at which point the elderly can begin to circulate again as the pandemic will have passed?

There will be no community testing or contact tracing, as is being done as "best practice" in the countries with much more experience of epidemics.

The UK approach is a huge public health policy experiment, with potentially fatal consequences for tens of thouands due to a crippled NHS.

Brexit discussions seem completly irrelevant at this stage.

Padre_Pio

theological wrote: »

The same is true of closing schools at this stage. There's not much impact of this and potentially some in the negative at this stage because there's the grandparent effect. I linked to Patrick Vallance on this a few pages ago explaining this part of the government's strategy.

I'm definitely happy for things to be introduced as is necessary to ensure that when more drastic steps are needed it will last. I think the arguments are lacking.

Children can carry the vius. Children are much more likely to be in close proximity to each other and spread the virus.

Your "grandparent effect" theory doesn't hold much water. Closing schools is a good response IMO. There's no real data that shows immunity after recovery. People have gotten re-infected due as they are isolated with other sufferers. Social isolation is working in China, S Korea and Japan.

The UK's response is an admission that the NHS simply cannot cope with Coronavirus, plain and simple. It's the best they can do with what they have.

AllForIt wrote: »

What is happening here is the same ole remainers attacking a Brexit gov in whatever way they can. Which I think is despicable during this crisis.

I would argue the inverse. The govt has made another bad decision (or maybe the best given the shambles of the NHS) and Brexiters jump to their defence as always.

coastwatch

coastwatch wrote: »

To clarify, the UK policy is to isolate (lockdown) the elderly (most vulnurable) for 4 months+, beginning in a couple of weeks time. Then, 60% or more of rest of the population is expected to become infected over the coming months and then recover, at which point the elderly can begin to circulate again as the pandemic will have passed?

There will be no community testing or contact tracing, as is being done as "best practice" in the countries with much more experience of epidemics.

The UK approach is a huge public health policy experiment, with potentially fatal consequences for tens of thouands due to a crippled NHS.

Brexit discussions seem completly irrelevant at this stage.

every country is expecting 60% of the population to become infected. Leo has said it and so has Merkal.

Padre_Pio

Aegir wrote: »

every country is expecting 60% of the population to become infected. Leo has said it and so has Merkal.

Yes, but every country is making attempts to "flatten the curve" in order to reduce strain on hospitals, through social isolation.

Tea Shock

AllForIt wrote: »

Herd immunity is not a policy of the UK gov, it's simply a fact.

Their chief medial reps made a very strong case that outdoor events don't pose much of a threat i.e Cheltenham, in contrast to indoor gathering which pose much more of a threat with this particular virus.

What is happening here is the same ole remainers attacking a Brexit gov in whatever way they can. Which I think is despicable during this crisis.

A herd immunity strategy that based upon statistical analysis, would involve up to 200,000 British people dying!!!

And they don't even know if "herd immunity" makes sense!!

Padre_Pio

Tea Shock wrote: »

A herd immunity strategy that based upon statistical analysis, would involve up to 200,000 British people dying!!!

And they don't even know if "herd immunity" makes sense!!

That's the part that's most worrying. There's no evidence yet that people develop a long term immunity to the virus. It's too new to make that call.

The virus can persist for weeks even after symptoms have disappeared.

Thousands of people in the UK will die in the next few weeks and the NHS will be swamped.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Yes, but every country is making attempts to "flatten the curve" in order to reduce strain on hospitals, through social isolation.

So you missed Boris talking about squashing the sombrero?

threeball

Aegir wrote: »

So you missed Boris talking about squashing the sombrero?

The sombrero is more of a Dunces cap already unfortunately

Seth Brundle

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Yes, but every country is making attempts to "flatten the curve" in order to reduce strain on hospitals, through social isolation.

Every country is not making these attempts (i.e. UK)!

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Every country is not making these attempts (i.e. UK)!

Yet. It will.

John_Rambo

When the C-19 Virus is settled and under control (which will happen at some stage) there will be an EU economic stimulus reaction from and for EU members.

Is this going to be another case where Brexitiers will regret their actions? I'm no expert, but I'm seeing a good bit of regret from ignorant but educated voters and I'm wondering will this be the true realisation of the unity and unrealised advantages that the partnership offers?

Do you all think the UK be exempt from any stimulus?

Peregrinus

John_Rambo wrote: »

When the C-19 Virus is settled and under control (which will happen at some stage) there will be an EU economic stimulus reaction from and for EU members.

Is this going to be another case where Brexitiers will regret their actions? I'm no expert, but I'm seeing a good bit of regret from ignorant but educated voters and I'm wondering will this be the true realisation of the unity and unrealised advantages that the partnership offers?

Do you all think the UK be exempt from any stimulus?

If there's an EU stimulus package, obviously the UK will not participate.

However this means not only that they won't get payments under the package, but also that they won't contribute towards it, and under most EU programmes the UK is a net payer. So, across the country as a whole, the UK may benefit financially from not participating.

Which is not to say that everyone in in the UK will benefit from not participating. Obviously, those people/organisations/regions that would have received more under the package than they would have paid in will lose out if the UK does not participate. Without knowing the details of the package, we can't know who they are.

McGiver

coastwatch wrote:

Hundreds of UK doctors and scientists dont share your view. They want the UK government to publish the evidence that supports the appoach of stopping widespread community testing, contact tracing, and the reliance on herd immunity.

Yes, it's a BS. And always has been a BS. WHO and major experts in the field called the Tory bluff.

theological

threeball wrote: »

I think the next 3 days in the UK is going to be a stark wakeup call for you. Deaths almost doubled in one day and they still think the infection rate is low with little to no testing happening.
Closing schools now all the kids have it certainly isn't going to be worth a toss. Bringing it home to Mammy the nurse and dad in the ambulance service.

There's no evidence that pulling kids out of school will improve things at the moment. When it is the right time I will support more measures. For now the UK are handling it well and the rate of spread has been slower than in other large European countries. It will get worse but if the right steps are given at the right time the UK will pull through it.

There's no evidence at the moment that the UK strategy is worse than any other. Hence why you have to use odd phrases like the UK will have a wake-up call.

I trust the experts advising the government more than you.

Syncpolice

theological wrote: »

There's no evidence that pulling kids out of school will improve things at the moment. When it is the right time I will support more measures. For now the UK are handling it well and the rate of spread has been slower than in other large European countries. It will get worse but if the right steps are given at the right time the UK will pull through it.

There's no evidence at the moment that the UK strategy is worse than any other. Hence why you have to use odd phrases like the UK will have a wake-up call.

I trust the experts advising the government more than you.

Your kidding right

Ten of Swords

Mod

We have a new Coronavirus forum, please take any covid discussions there

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1865

theological

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Mod

We have a new Coronavirus forum, please take any covid discussions there

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1865

Can some of the coronavirus posts be moved to a thread there? That'd be good for allowing discussion on the topic of the UK response to continue.

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

Can some of the coronavirus posts be moved to a thread there? That'd be good for allowing discussion on the topic of the UK response to continue.

Just go over there and post. They'd get lost anyway.

Will be interesting to see if your opinion from 2 hours ago has completely flipped like Boris has done. See ya over there!

CelticRambler

The phrase "dither and delay" comes to mind ... only to end up doing what the Europeans said had to be done. Haven't we seen this narrative before, somewhere? :rolleyes:

Ten of Swords

If you want to start a new thread in the covid forum that discusses specifically the UKs response that's fine, there's a whole forum now. You're not restricted to the megathreads


Edit: I have moved all posts from this thread since 6am this morning into a new thread in the covid forum

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058062174

Enjoy

steddyeddy

Aegir wrote: »

And the SNP, obviously.

Yes in this case they are.

Junkyard Tom

So the Conservatives are using fiscal stimulus? Interesting, as that's exactly what the Labour Party was saying would be needed.

joeguevara

Presume this has been covered but I worry that experts without knowledge of things like Brexit are allowed to inform public similar to this.

https://www.balls.ie/the-rewind/british-doctor-claims-ireland-doesnt-health-service-live-telly-428048

Donald Trump

This is corona and Brexit related. I assume it is more Brexit relevant than Corona but can delete if not

Michel Barnier has it

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-39057610.html

road_high

It seems irrelevant in the context of what's going on now, but you'd imagine the extension period will get a lengthy extension now. UK stance and mentality may soften back towards greater European unity if it can be fought together successfully.

davedanon

https://mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1240530155006820352

"The UK is still refusing to participate in the joint EU procurement program for ventilators & medical equipment despite EU saying they can.....because it’s a European program."

No words.

ancapailldorcha

road_high wrote: »

It seems irrelevant in the context of what's going on now, but you'd imagine the extension period will get a lengthy extension now. UK stance and mentality may soften back towards greater European unity if it can be fought together successfully.

Well, they've prohibited it in UK law so that would need changing first.

davedanon wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1240530155006820352

"The UK is still refusing to participate in the joint EU procurement program for ventilators & medical equipment despite EU saying they can.....because it’s a European program."

No words.

Welcome to the UK in 2020.

lawred2

davedanon wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1240530155006820352

"The UK is still refusing to participate in the joint EU procurement program for ventilators & medical equipment despite EU saying they can.....because it’s a European program."

No words.

Idiots is one word

Peregrinus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Well, they've prohibited it in UK law so that would need changing first.

Won't be a problem. If Johnson decides to change his position and seek or agree to an extension, Parliament will enact the necessary law change. This is not a parliament that will oppose Johnson in anything; it will reliably bring him his slippers and then roll over to have its tummy tickled.

ancapailldorcha

Peregrinus wrote: »

Won't be a problem. If Johnson decides to change his position and seek or agree to an extension, Parliament will enact the necessary law change. This is not a parliament that will oppose Johnson in anything; it will reliably bring him his slippers and then roll over to have its tummy tickled.

True. I was referring to the press and the populace at large. The viral pandemic might give him the out he needs.