Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Peregrinus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

True. I was referring to the press and the populace at large. The viral pandemic might give him the out he needs.

It definitely gives him the out he needs, and in all likelihood will all but compel an extension. My only puzzlement is why he is pretending not to know this. I cannot see there is any downside for him in pivoting at this point.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

It definitely gives him the out he needs, and in all likelihood will all but compel an extension. My only puzzlement is why he is pretending not to know this. I cannot see there is any downside for him in pivoting at this point.

He isn’t pretending, he knows this.

When he was asked at the daily press conference earlier this week he basically laughed at the journalist for bringing it up. It is obviously a long way down the agenda at the moment.

Peregrinus

Aegir wrote: »

He isn’t pretending, he knows this.

When he was asked at the daily press conference earlier this week he basically laughed at the journalist for bringing it up. It is obviously a long way down the agenda at the moment.

It makes no sense that it should be a long way down the agenda at the moment, though. Putting off the decision maximises the uncertainty, and requires both public sector and private sector to devote time, attention and resources to Brexit planning (and, therefore, not to Covid 19 planning) on the assumption that it will happen in 10 months time when it very probably won't and, if that were accepted now, those resources could be redeployed.

This is a no-brainer. There is literally no downside to a prompt decision to extend transition, and a considerable downside to deferring that decision.

timetogo1

Aegir wrote: »

He isn’t pretending, he knows this.

When he was asked at the daily press conference earlier this week he basically laughed at the journalist for bringing it up. It is obviously a long way down the agenda at the moment.

Laughing is an acceptable response?

Of course it's way down the agenda. Extend it so that the UK and the EU can focus on the problems at hand rather than having to expend resources on the UKs self imposed deadline.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

It makes no sense that it should be a long way down the agenda at the moment, though. Putting off the decision maximises the uncertainty, and requires both public sector and private sector to devote time, attention and resources to Brexit planning (and, therefore, not to Covid 19 planning) on the assumption that it will happen in 10 months time when it very probably won't and, if that were accepted now, those resources could be redeployed.

This is a no-brainer. There is literally no downside to a prompt decision to extend transition, and a considerable downside to deferring that decision.

When asked, it was quite clear he hadn’t even considered it as yet. Lots of other decisions being made at the moment.

There will of course be spin put around this and the doctors need to create this before he can announce it. People are more worried about the virus, the NHS and their jobs at the moment.

Peregrinus

My point is that he doesn't need to give it a lot of consideration; it's a no-brainer. Just do it and move on. Putting off this causes more confusion and more expense, and consumes more time and resources, than doing it ASAP. And this is not a moment when the government should be sekeing to increase confusion and expense and the pointless consumption of time and resources; business executives should not having to ask themselves "am I supposed to be hiring customs agents, or retooling to make ventilators?"

RobMc59

Peregrinus wrote: »

My point is that he doesn't need to give it a lot of consideration; it's a no-brainer. Just do it and move on. Putting off this causes more confusion and more expense, and consumes more time and resources, than doing it ASAP. And this is not a moment when the government should be sekeing to increase confusion and expense and the pointless consumption of time and resources; business executives should not having to ask themselves "am I supposed to be hiring customs agents, or retooling to make ventilators?"

I'd like to see an extension and would prefer it to be for at least a year with the option for both parties to shorten that if agreeable as the situation becomes clearer-whether the brexiteers would go for that is questionable,especially as johnson is trying to cultivate a 'Churchillian'like persona for himself.

Donald Trump

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-talks-cancelled-as-uk-prepares-to-seek-extension-39054039.html

These people are jokers.Who on here is surprised? At least they have the coronavirus excuse.

RobMc59

Donald Trump wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-talks-cancelled-as-uk-prepares-to-seek-extension-39054039.html

These people are jokers.Who on here is surprised? At least they have the coronavirus excuse.

Not sure if you're aware,the UK chief brexit negotiator is apparently showing signs of infection.

joeguevara

And Barnier is positive https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/brexit-negotiator-michel-barnier-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-39057610.html

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

Not sure if you're aware,the UK chief brexit negotiator is apparently showing signs of infection.

I posted it not 15 posts previous. What is the point/relevance?

Is it somehow Barnier's or the EU's fault that the UK are backtracking on their "commitments" and hard position? He could be replaced and the institutions carry on. The same as Donald Tusk was replaced. The same as David Cameron and Teresa May were replaced.

Brexiteers made it clear - they were leaving deal or no deal by the end of Dec. Leaving without a deal at that point was clearly preferable to any extension.

Yet now it appears that they are backtracking. It would have to be embarrassing to be continually blindly backing these chancers.

What about all these hard Brexiteers clamouring for the golden chalice of "WTO"?

RobMc59

Donald Trump wrote: »

I posted it not 15 posts previous. What is the point/relevance?

Is it somehow Barnier's or the EU's fault that the UK are backtracking on their "commitments" and hard position? He could be replaced and the institutions carry on. The same as Donald Tusk was replaced. The same as David Cameron and Teresa May were replaced.

Brexiteers made it clear - they were leaving deal or no deal by the end of Dec. Leaving without a deal at that point was clearly preferable to any extension.

Yet now it appears that they are backtracking. It would have to be embarrassing to be continually blindly backing these chancers.

What about all these hard Brexiteers clamouring for the golden chalice of "WTO"?

Apologies if you'd already posted about the UK negotiator,I'm on my phone so didn't spot it.
In the circumstances surely an extension would be the sensible thing for all concerned.
As I've posted earlier, Barnier is an asset to the EU and I wish him a speedy recovery.

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

Apologies if you'd already posted about the UK negotiator,I'm on my phone so didn't spot it.
In the circumstances surely an extension would be the sensible thing for all concerned.
As I've posted earlier, Barnier is an asset to the EU and I wish him a speedy recovery.

No worries.

Of course an extension would be the smart thing to do.

Participating in the coordination of the purchase of equipment and coordination of strategy against the virus would be the smart thing to do. Staying in the EU would be the smart thing to do. But they're not doing those things. The only one that they apparently will be doing is the one they said they would not.

The next thing we'll be reading online (maybe not on here) is that the EU developed and spread corona to prevent Brexit and that Barnier doesn't have it at all and it was only a tactic to keep UK in the EU.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-talks-cancelled-as-uk-prepares-to-seek-extension-39054039.html

These people are jokers.Who on here is surprised? At least they have the coronavirus excuse.

A reason isn’t an excuse.

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

A reason isn’t an excuse.

lol. Is that how are you spinning this then?

Given that they were insistent that come hell or high water, they were out on glorious WTO terms on Dec 31st. EU said it's not possible to do a deal by then. Brits blustered on saying they didn't care. They were definitely going to be out and being out by 31st with no deal was better than an extension........

Now it turns out (if reports are correct) that they will come back with their tails between their legs. It's March 29th and October 31st all over again, except they are doing it a bit further in advance.

Do these people expect to be taken seriously with their fake bravado and bluster. I'd imagine the EU side are laughing their holes off at them.

Leroy42

Remember, that as it stands an extension request needs to be made by end of June. Which according to Johnson presser yesterday, is band in the middle of the high point of the crisis (he said they will be past the worst in 12 weeks).

So in the midst of, according to the graphs, is going to be a serious outbreak, the UK are also going to be conducting negotiations? This when it took them 3 years to negotiate the WA, which is the easier of the two?

There is simply no logic to thinking it will be possible. Fine to have plans, but then circumstances change so should the plans. If even leaving on 31st was a good idea, is is not anymore given the massive impact that the CV is going to have on their, and the worlds, economy.

lawred2

timetogo1 wrote: »

Laughing is an acceptable response?

Of course it's way down the agenda. Extend it so that the UK and the EU can focus on the problems at hand rather than having to expend resources on the UKs self imposed deadline.

Is it not an ideal time to let a hard Brexit happen? Economies are being run down anyway.

joeguevara

If anything positive comes from this, and I hope there is, is the fact that people should critically review every decision of the U.K. government. Blindly following things has been shown to be unwise. Also, and this goes for all countries, the opinion of the media is much more based on bias rather than fact.

Also, admitting when mistakes are made rather than disregarding it will help in better decisions.

Donald Trump

Donald Trump wrote: »

lol. Is that how are you spinning this then?

Given that they were insistent that come hell or high water, they were out on glorious WTO terms on Dec 31st. EU said it's not possible to do a deal by then. Brits blustered on saying they didn't care. They were definitely going to be out and being out by 31st with no deal was better than an extension........

Now it turns out (if reports are correct) that they will come back with their tails between their legs. It's March 29th and October 31st all over again, except they are doing it a bit further in advance.

Do these people expect to be taken seriously with their fake bravado and bluster. I'd imagine the EU side are laughing their holes off at them.

Hell and high water have come. It isn’t spin, the world is facing the biggest pandemic for 100 years.

That is a reason, not an excuse.

Donald Trump

Aegir wrote: »

Hell and high water have come. It isn’t spin, the world is facing the biggest pandemic for 100 years.

That is a reason, not an excuse.

It's simple.
The Brits blustered and made it clear that they would be out on 31st December, deal or no deal. They insisted that no deal and out on the 31st Dec was better than staying in on the 1st Jan and continue to negotiate.

Now it looks like they are going to roll back on that.


"Theresa May's rushed flight to Brussels to ask for more time"

"Dead in a Ditch Mk II"

What's going to be the next hard, definite, deadline and ultimatum that they have to come crawling back on their hands and knees asking for more? Why on earth do they insist on setting themselves up for humiliation? Why do the UK voters vote for these people constantly making a laughing stock of them?

Timberrrrrrrr

Donald Trump wrote: »

It's simple.
The Brits blustered and made it clear that they would be out on 31st December, deal or no deal. They insisted that no deal and out on the 31st Dec was better than staying in on the 1st Jan and continue to negotiate.

Now it looks like they are going to roll back on that.


"Theresa May's rushed flight to Brussels to ask for more time"

"Dead in a Ditch Mk II"

What's going to be the next hard, definite, deadline and ultimatum that they have to come crawling back on their hands and knees asking for more? Why on earth do they insist on setting themselves up for humiliation? Why do the UK voters vote for these people constantly making a laughing stock of them?

You do understand that the world is going through a crisis never seen before since WWW right?

Donald Trump

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You do understand that the world is going through a crisis never seen before since WWW right?

And????

Surely, given that the Brexiters keep saying that they will be better off out of the EU, that it would make it all the more urgent to get out? No? I mean if that's what they believe, surely they should just go? Is it not the case that the Holy Grail of WTO awaits them?

It's hardly the case that these Brexiteers are admitting that it is better to be in the EU when emergencies happen???

Timberrrrrrrr

Donald Trump wrote: »

And????

Surely, given that the Brexiters keep saying that they will be better off out of the EU, that it would make it all the more urgent to get out? No? I mean if that's what they believe, surely they should just go? Is it not the case that the Holy Grail of WTO awaits them?

It's hardly the case that these Brexiteers are admitting that it is better to be in the EU when emergencies happen???

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In a crisis such as this EVERYTHING else goes on the back burner!

Find a cure, save lives, repair the world....then sort out the minor things.

davedanon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In a crisis such as this EVERYTHING else goes on the back burner!

Find a cure, save lives, repair the world....then sort out the minor things.

Gotta agree with this. Nothing matters apart from Covid anymore.

McGiver

davedanon wrote:

"The UK is still refusing to participate in the joint EU procurement program for ventilators & medical equipment despite EU saying they can.....because it’s a European program."

Most condemnable. UK regime officially on the par with Russia. No surprise given all the Russian Tory donors.

Can we just get the EU to join the Commonwealth? They'd lead the charge in every area of Her Majesty the Queen's EU Procurement of Medical Supplies.

I'm joking but they'd probably go for it and see it as UK hegemony returning.

Donald Trump

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In a crisis such as this EVERYTHING else goes on the back burner!

Find a cure, save lives, repair the world....then sort out the minor things.

Simple point is that it seems, after all, that leaving on 31st without a deal is not actually preferable to being still in on Jan 31st with the hope of still achieving one.

As we all knew

"Dead in a ditch MK II"

So much for their rallying cries of "WTO". If they had believed their own lies, they'd just go. No time and effort wasted on negotiations when their preferred option is automatic. corona or no corona.

Must be embarrassing for the supporters.

Leroy42

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Are you being deliberately obtuse? In a crisis such as this EVERYTHING else goes on the back burner!

Find a cure, save lives, repair the world....then sort out the minor things.

Apparently not for the UK. Not being part of EU meeting to plan for handling the pandemic.

Still not saying that they will postpone.

Seems getting Brexit down is more important than find a cure, save lives etc

davedanon

I think they will just quietly put it on the back burner. It's inconceivable that they would try to plough ahead with it in the current circumstances.

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

Apparently not for the UK. Not being part of EU meeting to plan for handling the pandemic.

Still not saying that they will postpone.

Seems getting Brexit down is more important than find a cure, save lives etc

what meeting?