Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

theological

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If you're going to start inventing claims I never made then there's no point responding to you.

The use of the word Europhobic implies that someone hates Europe. I'm just pointing that out so that others can see that it is more than a little disingenuous.

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

The use of the word Europhobic implies that someone hates Europe. I'm just pointing that out so that others can see that it is more than a little disingenuous.

Europhobic could mean "afraid of" Europe. Doesn't imply "hate" to me

Seth Brundle

theological wrote: »

Europhobic is a disingenuous term. It makes it sound like Eurosceptics hate Europe. I don't. I love Europe. I just don't think we need a bureaucratic supernational institution like the European Union in order to work together peaceably.

There's that old Brexiteer chestnut again. It's been a while since I've seen that nonsense.

blinding

fash wrote: »

Perhaps you should say that to the Tories - who refuse to countenance such independence attempts.

If it was quite clear there was majorities in either Northern Ireland or Scotland do you think the Tories in this day and age could stop them leaving the Uk after referendums to confirm that choice.

That's Eu talk ! Not respecting Democracy !

fash

Blueshoe wrote: »

Wasn't that just the views of one Mp?
For example if Michael Healy Rae makes comments about God controling the weather is that considered national policy?

Come on.

Ireland has lost a strong voting ally.

Aside from Priti Patel, home secretary (hardly a Healy Rae), who promoted the use of starvation as a motivating tool, all other aspects were stated on behalf of the UK government

fash

blinding wrote: »

If it was quite clear there was majorities in either Northern Ireland or Scotland do you think the Tories in this day and age could stop them leaving the Uk after referendums to confirm that choice.

That's Eu talk ! Not respecting Democracy !

Do you honestly think the UK respects democracy? It's less democratic than Russia. Both corrupt s**tholes on the edges of Europe controlled through industrial amounts of propaganda.

blinding

fash wrote: »

Do you honestly think the UK respects democracy? It's less democratic than Russia. Both corrupt s**tholes on the edges of Europe controlled through industrial amounts of propaganda.

It has eventually Respected the Brexit Vote = Great Democracy.

Great result in the 2019 General Election to back up the 2016 Brexit Vote = Great Democracy.

Now if Scotland and Northern Ireland can get 50%+1 to leave the Uk = More Great Democracy and the best of Luck to them.

fash

blinding wrote: »

It has eventually Respected the Brexit Vote = Great Democracy.

Great result in the 2019 General Election to back up the 2016 Brexit Vote = Great Democracy.

Now if Scotland and Northern Ireland can get 50%+1 to leave the Uk = More Great Democracy and the best of Luck to them.

Since the vast majority voted to remain in the single market ("only a mad man would leave the single market" etc), I am sure you will fully agree that what the UK is doing is precisely the opposite of respecting the wishes of the UK electorate. And that is aside from how they treated the Scottish or NI electorate, the illegalities involved in the referendum & the subsequent majority who wanted to remain in the EU

eagle eye

Well I hope NI don't leave. I've had enough of paying high taxes, with more to come after this pandemic, so I don't want to see any chance of a UI in my lifetime and not have a chance to put together some money for my kids. I'm talking about college money and money to help them financially when I'm gone.

Seth Brundle

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I hope NI don't leave. I've had enough of paying high taxes, with more to come after this pandemic, so I don't want to see any chance of a UI in my lifetime and not have a chance to put together some money for my kids. I'm talking about college money and money to help them financially when I'm gone.

...and how would a UI stop you doing that and a "united" UK would facilitate it?

blinding

fash wrote: »

Since the vast majority voted to remain in the single market ("only a mad man would leave the single market" etc), I am sure you will fully agree that what the UK is doing is precisely the opposite of respecting the wishes of the UK electorate. And that is aside from how they treated the Scottish or NI electorate, the illegalities involved in the referendum & the subsequent majority who wanted to remain in the EU

The more they saw of the Eu after their Democratic vote to leave the Eu the less they liked the Eu :eek::eek:

I think you may have noticed the December General Election Result and seen how the Eu-Phile parties did.

Liberal Democrats and Jo Swinson = Absolute Annihilation:eek::eek:

Change Uk (Eu-Phile ) = Absolute Annihilation :eek::eek:

Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour Party after changing the policy to respect the result of the Brexit referendum = Nearly annihilation. Their worst result since 1935 and could have been a lot worse if Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party had withdrawn from 20 or 30 more seats.

Now after those results, you would expect the penny to drop. The British are very happy with their decision to leave the Eu. As I said, the more they saw of the Eu the less they liked the Eu, as would be the case of anyone seeing the Eu up close and personal as the British did for the last few years.

Now you and the Eu have to learn to respect the Democracy of the Nation State that Voted to leave the Eu.

What is the Eu if it will not Respect the Democracy of Nation States ? ? :eek::eek::eek:

Leroy42

theological wrote: »

Why would I dislike the UK? Moving here has been pretty good for me and I'm pretty thankful for it.

I guess you're going to give some analogy to try convince me that the UK is the same if not highly similar to the EU? I'm not convinced of that notion but you can give it a shot.

Because they are both aimed at the same thing. Why do you think they are different?

It not the UK as a place, buy you know that since you already stated you don't dislike Europe, but how can you stand for a political union when clearly trade is all that is needed?

I don't understand how one can be for the UK yet be so against the EU?

Unless one is against the actual operation of the EU rather than the concept, but then what operations of the EU are different than the UK?

First Up

blinding wrote:

Now you and the Eu have to learn to respect the Democracy of the Nation State that Voted to leave the Eu.

Who in the EU is trying to stop them?

ancapailldorcha

First Up wrote: »

Who in the EU is trying to stop them?

They've left. Did Blinding not see this? The UK is gone, no longer a member.

blinding

First Up wrote: »

Who in the EU is trying to stop them?

When someone amicably leaves a Club then Ladies and Gentlemen shake hands and wish one another all the best.

These leg breaking threats from the Eu smacks of ; Why was one in such a horrific club in the first place :eek::eek:

Sad that it should come to this. this is why the Eu should have stayed like the EEC. A relatively loose club that traded with one another. Not the Eu getting stuck into this that and the other. The British people never voted to stay in that sort of organisation in 1974. As soon as they got the chance to leave the Eu they jumped at the chance and are delighted with their decision; Reference December 2019. A Country delighted to democratically leave the Eu = Great Democracy, Great Decision.

blinding

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They've left. Did Blinding not see this? The UK is gone, no longer a member.

Three Hurrahs for Democracy. Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah !:D:D:D

Donald Trump

blinding wrote: »

When someone amicably leaves a Club then Ladies and Gentlemen shake hands and wish one another all the best.

These leg breaking threats from the Eu smacks of ; Why was one in such a horrific club in the first place :eek::eek:

Sad that it should come to this. this is why the Eu should have stayed like the EEC. A relatively loose club that traded with one another. Not the Eu getting stuck into this that and the other. The British people never voted to stay in that sort of organisation in 1974. As soon as they got the chance to leave the Eu they jumped at the chance and are delighted with their decision; Reference December 2019. A Country delighted to democratically leave the Eu = Great Democracy, Great Decision.

You see blinding, there is this concept - and I don't know if you'd heard of it before - but it is called Democracy.


So you had a club in 1974. And that club consisted of members. And those members decided among themselves, via their parliament of democratically elected representatives, to vote and make changes.


In fact, to prevent changes due to "mob-rule", there were even safety provisions inserted in the form of the power of veto. So even if there was a majority vote to make a change, each and every country had the power of vetoing that change.



So in all those years from 1974 to now, the UK had a democratic vote, and also had the power to stop any changes which it did not like. If it decided not to, well that was the choice of their democratically elected representatives. If they decided not to exercise their veto, then that was the choice of their democratically elected representatives. If the UK citizens elected the "wrong people" to represent them, then they need to take responsibility for that fact. Not to blame voters in Belgium or Latvia or Poland



So, as you see, democracy in action!

First Up

blinding wrote:

These leg breaking threats from the Eu smacks of ; Why was one in such a horrific club in the first place

What in the EU's position do you consider to be a "leg breaking threat"?

blinding

First Up wrote: »

What in the EU's position do you consider to be a "leg breaking threat"?

All of the Eu’s attitude especially when they thought / had the upper hand when the situation in the House of Commons was up in the air numbers wise despite so many of those MPs standing on platforms to respect the Referendum Result. Thankfully the December 2019 Election kicked that shower of fraudulent MPs out = now that was Great Democracy.

The Eu acted like the Gangsters Heavies when it thought it was up against the Weak Theresa May. That's all over now.

Junkyard Tom

theological wrote: »

I love Europe.

Just not the 400 million people who live there in the EU? I don't buy this common Brexiter lie. For many Brexit was a method of expressing their Europhobic spite albiet derived from years of densely absorbing anti-EU propaganda via the British press and media.

There was much gloating at the expectation that Britain leaving the EU would precipitate its collapse. Brexiters couldn't just be happy about Britain leaving the EU they wanted to see it fall apart and if that caused economic devastation all the better.

Professor Moriarty

blinding wrote: »

All of the Eu’s attitude especially when they thought / had the upper hand when the situation in the House of Commons was up in the air numbers wise despite so many of those MPs standing on platforms to respect the Referendum Result. Thankfully the December 2019 Election kicked that shower of fraudulent MPs out = now that was Great Democracy.

The Eu acted like the Gangsters Heavies when it thought it was up against the Weak Theresa May. That's all over now.

As you describe Britain, I think the EU is very much better off without them.

blinding

Donald Trump wrote: »

You see blinding, there is this concept - and I don't know if you'd heard of it before - but it is called Democracy.


So you had a club in 1974. And that club consisted of members. And those members decided among themselves, via their parliament of democratically elected representatives, to vote and make changes.


In fact, to prevent changes due to "mob-rule", there were even safety provisions inserted in the form of the power of veto. So even if there was a majority vote to make a change, each and every country had the power of vetoing that change.



So in all those years from 1974 to now, the UK had a democratic vote, and also had the power to stop any changes which it did not like. If it decided not to, well that was the choice of their democratically elected representatives. If they decided not to exercise their veto, then that was the choice of their democratically elected representatives. If the UK citizens elected the "wrong people" to represent them, then they need to take responsibility for that fact. Not to blame voters in Belgium or Latvia or Poland



So, as you see, democracy in action!

The British should never have ratified the Maastricht Treat in the 1990’s. That should have been put to a British referendum and it would have stopped it dead there and then or the British would have left the Eu then. Anyway they have got to the right place for Britain i.e. Out of the Eu.

Lets be honest here there is no way and I mean No way that the British would be going along with more and more Integration and the Eu getting involved in more and more. Let the eu on its merry way. The British have no interest in the Eu. None.

First Up

blinding wrote:

All of the Eu’s attitude especially when they thought / had the upper hand when the situation in the House of Commons was up in the air numbers wise despite so many of those MPs standing on platforms to respect the Referendum Result. Thankfully the December 2019 Election kicked that shower of fraudulent MPs out = now that was Great Democracy.

Attitude about what? Specifics please.

And where's the "leg breaking threats"?

blinding

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As you describe Britain, I think the EU is very much better off without them.

I totally agree. The British would not for one minute agree to further integration and the Eu getting involved in this that and the other. Its a very timely and good divorce !

Jizique

blinding wrote: »

The more they saw of the Eu after their Democratic vote to leave the Eu the less they liked the Eu :eek::eek:

I think you may have noticed the December General Election Result and seen how the Eu-Phile parties did.

Liberal Democrats and Jo Swinson = Absolute Annihilation:eek::eek:

Change Uk (Eu-Phile ) = Absolute Annihilation :eek::eek:

Jeremy Corbyn and his Labour Party after changing the policy to respect the result of the Brexit referendum = Nearly annihilation. Their worst result since 1935 and could have been a lot worse if Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party had withdrawn from 20 or 30 more seats.

Now after those results, you would expect the penny to drop. The British are very happy with their decision to leave the Eu. As I said, the more they saw of the Eu the less they liked the Eu, as would be the case of anyone seeing the Eu up close and personal as the British did for the last few years.

Now you and the Eu have to learn to respect the Democracy of the Nation State that Voted to leave the Eu.

What is the Eu if it will not Respect the Democracy of Nation States ? ? :eek::eek::eek:

The LibDems increased their share of the popular vote.
In a democracy (rather than the FPTP system) the Brexit party would not have pulled out all candidates from Tory seats. Either way, with 15% of the vote, in a democracy, they would have something similar in terms of seats

Beechwoodspark

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just not the 400 million people who live there in the EU? I don't buy this common Brexiter lie. For many Brexit was a method of expressing their Europhobic spite albiet derived from years of densely absorbing anti-EU propaganda via the British press and media.

There was much gloating at the expectation that Britain leaving the EU would precipitate its collapse. Brexiters couldn't just be happy about Britain leaving the EU they wanted to see it fall apart and if that caused economic devastation all the better.

That cartoon is brilliant !

Beechwoodspark

Interesting stat in todays observer - UK potential gains from a US trade deal - £3.4 Bn.

UK potential loss from no deal with EU .... £112 Bn!!!!

That’s not a typo!

The Brits are in deep doodoo

Professor Moriarty

blinding wrote: »

I totally agree. The British would not for one minute agree to further integration and the Eu getting involved in this that and the other. Its a very timely and good divorce !

Well, the only problem I have is that Ireland has to pay some of the settlement. Apart from that, good luck and goodbye.

blinding

Jizique wrote: »

The LibDems increased their share of the popular vote.
In a democracy (rather than the FPTP system) the Brexit party would not have pulled out all candidates from Tory seats. Either way, with 15% of the vote, in a democracy, they would have something similar in terms of seats

Poor old Jo Swinson must have de-materialised. She has not been seen since Election Night. The Liberal Democrats have been hiding since the General Election. What an embarrassment their leader and Party turned out to be.:D:D:D

blinding

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well, the only problem I have is that Ireland has to pay some of the settlement. Apart from that, good luck and goodbye.

Now thats how leaving a Club should be