Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

First Up

blinding wrote:

There have been a few posters on here attempting to tell me Re-Mainers won the December General Election.

Thanks for confirming the point I made in #2480.

Leroy42

theological wrote: »

The government is under no obligation to use the extension. I can see the argument that ending the transition at the end of the year will draw a line under the issue and allow the UK to move on on new terms.

Of course not, but since Brexit is largely promoted due to a lack of democracy within the EU, it seems odd that the government have just decided it without any recourse to the people.

As I said, it is fine to see whatever argument you wish, but the only thing we know is that the WA was offered, in fact it was the main issue, in the recent GE. That WA included the provision of an extension.

Yet now we have the government stating that under no circumstances will an extension be sought.

Yet the EU are willing to go along with the WA, as noted on by the UK.

Apart from your own wish, what basis is there not to at least look for an extension?

theological

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course not, but since Brexit is largely promoted due to a lack of democracy within the EU, it seems odd that the government have just decided it without any recourse to the people.

As I said, it is fine to see whatever argument you wish, but the only thing we know is that the WA was offered, in fact it was the main issue, in the recent GE. That WA included the provision of an extension.

Yet now we have the government stating that under no circumstances will an extension be sought.

Yet the EU are willing to go along with the WA, as noted on by the UK.

Apart from your own wish, what basis is there not to at least look for an extension?

You're asking for my opinion on a forum. I will give you my opinion. If you want someone else's opinion you can ask them.

I think it is best that a line is drawn under the issue in December. There's no good reason to seek one.

gormdubhgorm

It is interesting at the moment given the covid19 overshadowing it.
Might be a chance for deals to be made without the usual spotlight.

The British want to get a deal that keeps all the good bits of the EU they like.
Meanwhile the EU want to make sure the British 'lose out' by leaving the EU otherwise it could encourage others to do the same.

One of the sides will have to compromise eventually.

davedanon

The very simple reason the UK should be asking for an extension is that without one they are going to end up with a far worse deal than the already ****ty one the EU are going to give them anyway.

theological

davedanon wrote: »

The very simple reason the UK should be asking for an extension is that without one they are going to end up with a far worse deal than the already ****ty one the EU are going to give them anyway.

I get the argument, but I don't think the logic holds. If there's no evidence the EU are going to offer the UK an acceptable arrangement by June then it isn't likely that they are going to offer an acceptable arrangement with 6 months extra.

If the EU were offering the UK an acceptable non-Norway Canada style arrangement and it needed a time to implement that would make some sense. But if the EU are not willing to offer a sensible arrangement then there's no point delaying the inevitable further.

First Up

theological wrote: »

I get the argument, but I don't think the logic holds. If there's no evidence the EU are going to offer the UK an acceptable arrangement by June then it isn't likely that they are going to offer an acceptable arrangement with 6 months extra.

It just gives the UK a bit longer to find a way to accept it.

Leroy42

theological wrote: »

I get the argument, but I don't think the logic holds. If there's no evidence the EU are going to offer the UK an acceptable arrangement by June then it isn't likely that they are going to offer an acceptable arrangement with 6 months extra.

If the EU were offering the UK an acceptable non-Norway Canada style arrangement and it needed a time to implement that would make some sense. But if the EU are not willing to offer a sensible arrangement then there's no point delaying the inevitable further.

The real question is whether No deal now is better than an extension and then a no deal in 18 months or 30 months. If they manage to get a better deal during that time then great, if not then they leave with No Deal, so they have lost nothing.

So to make the decision, one needs to see the costs of an extension against the benefits of an extension.

Even at this late stage, I have not seen anything that even remotely shows the basis of their decision not to seek an extension.

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

I get the argument, but I don't think the logic holds. If there's no evidence the EU are going to offer the UK an acceptable arrangement by June then it isn't likely that they are going to offer an acceptable arrangement with 6 months extra.

If the EU were offering the UK an acceptable non-Norway Canada style arrangement and it needed a time to implement that would make some sense. But if the EU are not willing to offer a sensible arrangement then there's no point delaying the inevitable further.

Do you think that the UK will end the current transition period then?


Do you think that they should?


If the don't then it is clear that it is only a game of brinksmanship to the UK politicians. Still under the same delusions as Davis' (I think*) proposed trips to Berlin the day after the vote for the easiest deal in history

(*whoever actually said it is irrelevant to the point)

fash

blinding wrote: »

Re; Irish People Respecting the Brexit Vote and the 2019 General Election Result.

There have been a few posters on here attempting to tell me Re-Mainers won the December General Election.

Now Their Delusion is strong ! !

Surely it depends on what you mean by "win" - Mr Frost believes the UK is "winning" the argument against Mr. Barnier. Corbin aficionados believe he won the argument against Johnson. Certainly the Tories could only convince a rather small minority of the UK of their way forward, despite their lies and the atrocious opposition. In some places anything less than 50% - for example 48.1% constitutes a loss.

fash

blinding wrote: »

And the Irish have to accept the British Democratic decision to Brexit and get on with it.

As the UK ought to accept the Irish democratic decision to tell them to go f*ck themselves - yet they did not - why is that? Do they or you truly believe in democracy?
Why do you actually avoid talking about actual democracy? Why are you so scared of it?

blinding

fash wrote: »

Surely it depends on what you mean by "win" - Mr Frost believes the UK is "winning" the argument against Mr. Barnier. Corbin aficionados believe he won the argument against Johnson. Certainly the Tories could only convince a rather small minority of the UK of their way forward, despite their lies and the atrocious opposition. In some places anything less than 50% - for example 48.1% constitutes a loss.

Watch BBC / ITV / Sky News Election night coverage to see who won the December 2019 British General Election; Clue = It was not the Re-Mainers.

If you can find Channel 4 Coverage , Please send it too me. It was un-intentional Comedy Gold.

Get Back to me and tell me that that even the politicians who were for Re-Main and the Lefties do not admit through out the night that they had got the Mother and Father of all beatings and that Re-main is dead and buried.

Can someone please get me the Channel 4 Coverage :D

theological

Donald Trump wrote: »

Do you think that the UK will end the current transition period then?


Do you think that they should?


If the don't then it is clear that it is only a game of brinksmanship to the UK politicians. Still under the same delusions as Davis' (I think*) proposed trips to Berlin the day after the vote for the easiest deal in history

(*whoever actually said it is irrelevant to the point)

This limbo state can't continue forever the matter should be settled.

If there is no determination on the EU side to offer an acceptable arrangement with the UK by June then there is no argument for extension. The extension won't help anyone agree, it will be just kicking the can down the road.

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

This limbo state can't continue forever the matter should be settled.

If there is no determination on the EU side to offer an acceptable arrangement with the UK by June then there is no argument for extension. The extension won't help anyone agree, it will be just kicking the can down the road.

i think you misunderstood my question. I don't mean calling for another extension. I was asking whether or not you think that they should terminate the current extension early in June.



If they know that a deal isn't going to happen, there is no point waiting until December

davedanon

blinding wrote: »

Watch BBC / ITV / Sky News Election night coverage to see who won the December 2019 British General Election; Clue = It was not the Re-Mainers.

If you can find Channel 4 Coverage , Please send it too me. It was un-intentional Comedy Gold.

Get Back to me and tell me that that even the politicians who were for Re-Main and the Lefties do not admit through out the night that they had got the Mother and Father of all beatings and that Re-main is dead and buried.

Can someone please get me the Channel 4 Coverage :D

What age are you, just out of interest? And do you know that 'remain' is one word? It's not 'Re-main'.

davedanon

Donald Trump wrote: »

i think you misunderstood my question. I don't mean calling for another extension. I was asking whether or not you think that they should terminate the current extension early in June.

If they know that a deal isn't going to happen, there is no point waiting until December

Yes, but they don't want to be seen as the architects of this catastrophe. The EU is to be the scapegoat, hence the negotiations must go on right up to the wire, so that they can blame Europe, as they always have. It's just that they are running out of time, even more quickly now with the Covid spanner in the works. There literally isn't enough time to agree anything beyond the bare minimum. I think a majority of the British public would agree, even the Brexiters as well "Re-mainers". I just don't see why they are so willing to blow up their own economy for ideological reasons.

gormdubhgorm

blinding wrote: »

Watch BBC / ITV / Sky News Election night coverage to see who won the December 2019 British General Election; Clue = It was not the Re-Mainers.

If you can find Channel 4 Coverage , Please send it too me. It was un-intentional Comedy Gold.

Get Back to me and tell me that that even the politicians who were for Re-Main and the Lefties do not admit through out the night that they had got the Mother and Father of all beatings and that Re-main is dead and buried.

Can someone please get me the Channel 4 Coverage :D

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1216603/general-election-latest-election-night-news-channel-4-live-labour-party#t=26s

blinding

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1216603/general-election-latest-election-night-news-channel-4-live-labour-party#t=26s

Thats just a small clip of Steve Coogan making a Complete Pratt of himself before the General Election and yet again another Re-Mainer doing wonders for Leave and the Tories.

Still can’t find Channel 4’s Election Night Coverage :eek:

The BBC, Sky, ITV and many many others but Channel 4 have pulled theirs because it showed how far the Celebrity Luvvies , Celebrity Lefties and Others were out of Touch with ordinary British People.

Just too embarrassing, cringeworthy and shaming of Channel 4 (actually part paid by for taxpayers and not just one section of taxpayers either ) Why is Channel 4 allowed to be so biased when all taxpayers are part funding it ! ! !

Anyway, I am still waiting for Channel 4’s General Election Night Coverage . Please ! ! !

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=General+Election+2019++coverage

RobMc59

theological wrote: »

I get the argument, but I don't think the logic holds. If there's no evidence the EU are going to offer the UK an acceptable arrangement by June then it isn't likely that they are going to offer an acceptable arrangement with 6 months extra.

If the EU were offering the UK an acceptable non-Norway Canada style arrangement and it needed a time to implement that would make some sense. But if the EU are not willing to offer a sensible arrangement then there's no point delaying the inevitable further.

Would`nt you agree the British economy has been severely damaged by the financial paralysis caused by the virus?Britain is in a much weaker position now and that will be obvious to the EU.

gormdubhgorm

blinding wrote: »

Thats just a small clip of Steve Coogan making a Complete Pratt of himself before the General Election and yet again another Re-Mainer doing wonders for Leave and the Tories.

Still can’t find Channel 4’s Election Night Coverage :eek:

The BBC, Sky, ITV and many many others but Channel 4 have pulled theirs because it showed how far the Celebrity Luvvies , Celebrity Lefties and Others were out of Touch with ordinary British People.

Just too embarrassing, cringeworthy and shaming of Channel 4 (actually part paid by for taxpayers and not just one section of taxpayers either ) Why is Channel 4 allowed to be so biased when all taxpayers are part funding it ! ! !

Anyway, I am still waiting for Channel 4’s General Election Night Coverage . Please ! ! !

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=General+Election+2019++coverage

If you are going to insist and calling remainers - 're-mainers' complete with hyphen.
Why not go the whole hog and call them 're-moaners'?

blinding

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If you are going to insist and calling remainers - 're-mainers' complete with hyphen.
Why not go the whole hog and call them 're-moaners'?

They are fragile and insecure enough already !:D

It has just come to me that the Eu-Philes on here are like the Channel 4 Luvvies, Celebrity Champagne Socialists !

Jizique

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is interesting at the moment given the covid19 overshadowing it.
Might be a chance for deals to be made without the usual spotlight.

The British want to get a deal that keeps all the good bits of the EU they like.
Meanwhile the EU want to make sure the British 'lose out' by leaving the EU otherwise it could encourage others to do the same.

One of the sides will have to compromise eventually.

Yes, Sam Lowe was saying today that they want all their professional qualifications to be recognized; can’t have those expensive lawyers looking to incorporate in Ireland to ensure they continue to service their clients

davedanon

blinding wrote: »

They are fragile and insecure enough already !:D

It has just come to me that the Eu-Philes on here are like the Channel 4 Luvvies, Celebrity Champagne Socialists !

Now, that's absolutely textbook projection. What does the election have to do with anything, anyway?

blinding

davedanon wrote: »

Now, that's absolutely textbook projection. What does the election have to do with anything, anyway?

Did you read that back to yourself ! !

It could only take looney Eu-Philes to say that a General Election in a Sovereign Independent Nation State has nothing to do with the Decisions of a Sovereign Independent Nation State ! !

What does Eu-Philia do to you People ? It removes all Respect for the Democracy of Sovereign Independent Nation States ! !

Donald Trump

blinding wrote: »

Did you read that back to yourself ! !

It could only take looney Eu-Philes to say that a General Election in a Sovereign Independent Nation State has nothing to do with the Decisions of a Sovereign Independent Nation State ! !

What does Eu-Philia do to you People ? It removes all Respect for the Democracy of Sovereign Independent Nation States ! !

Irish people, by a very large margin, want to remain in the EU.


Can you not respect our democracy there blinding??? You will need to learn to accept that and move on.



I can't speak for others on here, but I have as much interest in the difference or histories between the various UK political parties as I have between the myriad of Italian ones, or the French ones. Which is zero.

davedanon

blinding wrote: »

Did you read that back to yourself ! !

It could only take looney Eu-Philes to say that a General Election in a Sovereign Independent Nation State has nothing to do with the Decisions of a Sovereign Independent Nation State ! !

What does Eu-Philia do to you People ? It removes all Respect for the Democracy of Sovereign Independent Nation States ! !

Don't be any more of an idiot than you have been up to now. The election is history. We get it. Boris won. He has a big majority. Big swinging mickey. Why are you **** yourself into a frenzy over it? Nobody cares.

Padre_Pio

davedanon wrote: »

Don't be any more of an idiot than you have been up to now. The election is history. We get it. Boris won. He has a big majority. Big swinging mickey. Why are you **** yourself into a frenzy over it? Nobody cares.

Boris could take the UK out of Europe any time he wants but he wont. All these lads saying Boris is great, will of the people nonsense are deluded.

4 years on and 1 year on for Boris getting the PM job and nothing has changed.

gormdubhgorm

blinding wrote: »

Did you read that back to yourself ! !

It could only take looney Eu-Philes to say that a General Election in a Sovereign Independent Nation State has nothing to do with the Decisions of a Sovereign Independent Nation State ! !

What does Eu-Philia do to you People ? It removes all Respect for the Democracy of Sovereign Independent Nation States ! !

Anyone pro-EU is loony anyone who is not is fragile?
What about Irish parties who changed thier position on Europe from Anti-EU/EEC to Pro-EU? How would you classify them?

According to this fella Britain had an identity crisis in 1973 and the votes in the commons were lucky to pass to join the EEC.

I can't for the life of me remember the programme which showed how it was UK Labour politicians who orchestrated the vote to join the EEC and the rest were caught off guard.

blinding

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Anyone pro-EU is loony anyone who is not is fragile?
What about Irish parties who changed thier position on Europe from Anti-EU/EEC to Pro-EU? How would you classify them?

According to this fella Britain had an identity crisis in 1973 and the votes in the commons were lucky to pass to join the EEC.

I can't for the life of me remember the programme which showed how it was UK Labour politicians who orchestrated the vote to join the EEC and the rest were caught off guard.

Funnily enough , Jeremy Corbyn’s wing of the Labour Party was always against the Eu ! !

So funnily enough, Corbyn sold out his Anti-Eu Principles but still ended up in the Political Toilet:D:D

fash

Jizique wrote: »

Yes, Sam Lowe was saying today that they want all their professional qualifications to be recognized; can’t have those expensive lawyers looking to incorporate in Ireland to ensure they continue to service their clients

In any case that is insufficient as they have to be resident.