Will Britain piss off and get on with Brexit II (mod warning in OP)

Seth Brundle

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The powers to send people back only impact a tiny number of people.

Erm that's my point. The UK had adequate means to deal with immigrants that weren't benefiting society but didn't really use them. They just started pointing at the EU claiming it was all their fault.

Jamie2k9

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Erm that's my point. The UK had adequate means to deal with immigrants that weren't benefiting society but didn't really use them. They just started pointing at the EU claiming it was all their fault.

Its much easier said than done.

Do you think someone who came under a Labour Goverment in 2006 could for example just be easily deported once the Tories took office.

I know the Tories haven't really used them either.

There is a wider problem of illegals there and its so hard to deport people. Just look at use here failed asylum seekers can spend years appealing and EU doesn't help the process.

Is it all the EU's fault no. Will ending of free movement reduce numbers, the future will tell.

blinding

fash wrote: »

You've obviously never been to the coast of Spain, Tuscany, much of France- in particular the south - or a ski slope.

Edit: and that is leaving aside the benefits the UK has had from FOM into the country: culturally similar young hard workers who will go home or somewhere closer to home when they are done.
Let's see what the Brexiters think of their North African replacements.

Easy on the Racism there ! ! ! I haven’t seen much from you on this thread for you to be running down anyone ! ! !

fash

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yeah all in full time jobs or summer working holiday/retiring?
Again free movement ending will not change this.

Of course it will. Firstly there is time, effort, red tape and cost in obtaining a visa and generally one is chained to one particular employer when one arrives with a visa. By definition that decreases the pool of available talent, makes it less likely that an employer will find an employee, less likely that an employee will go.

There is a reason why Ireland has Polish not Chinese builders.

As regards retiring, here will be the new requirements the several hundred thousand UK citizens who used to retire to Europe would now have to fulfill to (e.g.) retire to Spain going forward:
https://www.barcelona-metropolitan.com/living/settling-in/what-you-need-to-know-about-spains-non-lucrative-visa/

That is aside from the fact that (e.g.) musicians and other cross border services will be rendered uneconomic in many instances - stopping them from occurring.
If you think that there will continue to be British ski instructors- no chance - they don't bring special skills with them.

People may need to fill out forms to apply but those in favour of free movement always try spin the narrative like you have, we can never work in EI again!!!

Actually since that is not what I wrote in the slightest, I would suggest you read what I said again and perhaps respond to that instead.

As for N African replacements we have it here in N Dublin and people will take the same attitude in time.

Not quite. Freedom of movement meant Ireland could cheaply and quickly draw on pools of labour of culturally similar workers who intended to retire home when they'd saved up - so weren't a burden on the state.
North Africans arriving into the UK to replace the Polish and Romanians won't be quite the same.

fash

2u2me wrote: »

It's hard to care about going on holiday when you can't afford it. 10% of British people have never been abroad in their lifetimes. Many only ever having gone once.

A lot more will be poorer now and holidays even more expensive. That number will increase

fash

blinding wrote: »

Easy on the Racism there ! ! ! I haven’t seen much from you on this thread for you to be running down anyone ! ! !

Racism is your bag- not mine.

RobMc59

fash wrote: »

A lot more will be poorer now and holidays even more expensive. That number will increase

I'm concerned about taxes increasing to pay for the financial measures the UK has taken,aren't Irish people concerned that along with the other EU nations which acted responsibly they will still have to pay out for countries who haven't managed their finances sensibly?

blinding

fash wrote: »

Racism is your bag- not mine.

I suggest your withdraw your Racist post then.

Leroy42

I always find it incredible that 4 years after the vote, months after the Uk left, the Brexit side still has no actual arguments for why it is a good idea, save for the vague 'sovereingty', which has been debunked so many times.

The reason that 'remainers' continue to argue is that the Brexiteers have nothing to actual say. 'Get over it, you ost' is one of the 'comebacks'. WTO, other trade deals, better off out. All of these are thrown out as if they actually mean something, but there is never any facts put to the argument.

The very idea that they are looking to go ahead with an extension, in the midst of the biggest negative impact on the economy probably ever, just highlights, to me at least, that they see no positives in it and are now arguing that burying in in the other mess is better than doing it on its own.

Can you imagine any other government policy that 4 years after it was voted on the government still have no idea what the outcome is going to be? Thi despite running the last GE on it?

fash

blinding wrote: »

I suggest your withdraw your Racist post then.

Since you are the racist, you will need to delete your own posts.

fash

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm concerned about taxes increasing to pay for the financial measures the UK has taken,aren't Irish people concerned that along with the other EU nations which acted responsibly they will still have to pay out for countries who haven't managed their finances sensibly?

I get the impression that Ireland thinks it will be on the receiving rather than the spending side - or possibly that somehow inflation can be raised as a hidden tax on all - which Ireland would likely welcome - as a higher inflation environment is how the country worked prior to the Euro - and that the social order is built on (and maybe even requires) such inflation - to do the heavy lifting in relation to public sector wages, social welfare etc.

blinding

fash wrote: »

Since you are the racist, you will need to delete your own posts.

I did not post the Racist Post ! Perhaps you do not realise it is Racist ! !

fash

blinding wrote: »

I did not post the Racist Post ! Perhaps you do not realise it is Racist ! !

Almost every post you've written is directly or indirectly racist against Europeans - why don't you delete them?

blinding

fash wrote: »

Almost every post you've written is directly or indirectly racist against Europeans - why don't you delete them?

I am a European :D:D

fash

Onto more serious matters, the crisis around Cummings grows more extreme:

Now the EU is bookended by 2 faux-democratic states where the elites openly flout the law - and are able to pervert the organs of state.
One can see why being in the EU would not serve their interests

McGiver

theological wrote: »

I've answered this several times on this thread already. Please read through my previous posts.

That's a poor reply, if you ask me. I haven't seen a coherent, rational answer yet.

theological

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Erm that's my point. The UK had adequate means to deal with immigrants that weren't benefiting society but didn't really use them. They just started pointing at the EU claiming it was all their fault.

I disagree. Telling someone to leave just because they don't have a job isn't enough control. It depends on what you mean by adequate. From my perspective adequate would mean being able to control migration sector by sector based on demand that can't be filled domestically.


It's worth pointing out that free movement is only really beneficial for western European countries who want cheaper labour. There are plenty of eastern European countries that are still experiencing a brain drain. Free movement isn't beneficial in terms of losing valuable and skilled labour and in terms of eastern European countries also losing out on income tax which they would have received otherwise. Here's an article about Croatia a few months ago.

Edit: it is worth pointing out that subsequent governments will be able to shape Britain's direction in this area as they please. The essential thing that matters is that decision making about immigration happens in the UK and not in Brussels.

McGiver wrote: »

That's a poor reply, if you ask me. I haven't seen a coherent, rational answer yet.

I don't care what you think. I've responded to this exact question at least twice in the last few days. Go read.

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that free movement is only really beneficial for western European countries who want cheaper labour. There are plenty of eastern European countries that are still experiencing a brain drain. Free movement isn't beneficial in terms of losing valuable and skilled labour and in terms of eastern European countries also losing out on income tax which they would have received otherwise. Here's an article about Croatia a few months ago.

Have to laugh at the obligatory "scary" photo of Afghan refugees in Bosnia with the caption that "They are likely to be aiming to cross the border into Croatia".


I'm also glad to learn of the Brexiteers concern for not causing brain drains in other countries ............ although the contradiction that they want to be able to only accept educated and skilled immigrants is something I cannot yet figure out.

Jamie2k9

fash wrote: »

Of course it will. Firstly there is time, effort, red tape and cost in obtaining a visa and generally one is chained to one particular employer when one arrives with a visa. By definition that decreases the pool of available talent, makes it less likely that an employer will find an employee, less likely that an employee will go.

There is a reason why Ireland has Polish not Chinese builders.

No the reason we have Polish builders instead of Chinese is the Government doesn't consider a shortage in the trade and have not lifted caps for Non EU nationals.

If the person is worth it then the employer will want to secure the. The cost is within the contrail of national Governments.

fash wrote: »

As regards retiring, here will be the new requirements the several hundred thousand UK citizens who used to retire to Europe would now have to fulfill to (e.g.) retire to Spain going forward:
https://www.barcelona-metropolitan.com/living/settling-in/what-you-need-to-know-about-spains-non-lucrative-visa/

Again this could and probably will change overtime.

fash wrote: »

That is aside from the fact that (e.g.) musicians and other cross border services will be rendered uneconomic in many instances - stopping them from occurring.
If you think that there will continue to be British ski instructors- no chance - they don't bring special skills with them.

Crap.

fash wrote: »

Actually since that is not what I wrote in the slightest, I would suggest you read what I said again and perhaps respond to that instead.

The point was we all don't get what we want.

fash wrote: »

Not quite. Freedom of movement meant Ireland could cheaply and quickly draw on pools of labour of culturally similar workers who intended to retire home when they'd saved up - so weren't a burden on the state.
North Africans arriving into the UK to replace the Polish and Romanians won't be quite the same.

Are you now trying to imply the UK will not allow a single EU national come?

These people will come if required and they apply. It will be difficult for Africans to secure such entry to the UK.

Buck_rodgers

EU implodes shortly after the next wave of Covid-19.
You will be using Punts to buy your summer beers in 2021

theological

Donald Trump wrote: »

Have to laugh at the obligatory "scary" photo of Afghan refugees in Bosnia with the caption that "They are likely to be aiming to cross the border into Croatia".

I'm also glad to learn of the Brexiteers concern for not causing brain drains in other countries ............ although the contradiction that they want to be able to only accept educated and skilled immigrants is something I cannot yet figure out.

Thanks for not responding to the points I've made. The point is it is a disservice both to sending and receiving countries to have unlimited scope for migration.

You know this yourself because it is the reason why you aren't suggesting opening the borders to all non-EU migrants on an unlimited basis.

Donald Trump

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

EU implodes shortly after the next wave of Covid-19.
You will be using Punts to buy your summer beers in 2021

If you a so confident, then you short short the shit out of the Euro


If you don't want to bother with actual financial contracts, get a loan in Euro, convert cash to dollars or other currency and convert part of that back next year to repay it after the Euro implodes



Note, serious advice to sane people is do not do this unless you actually understand the risks.

Buck_rodgers

Donald Trump wrote: »

If you a so confident, then you short short the shit out of the Euro


If you don't want to bother with actual financial contracts, get a loan in Euro, convert cash to dollars or other currency and convert part of that back next year to repay it after the Euro implodes



Note, serious advice to sane people is do not do this unless you actually understand the risks.

Where did i state i have not?

Donald Trump

theological wrote: »

Thanks for not responding to the points I've made. The point is it is a disservice both to sending and receiving countries to have unlimited scope for migration.

You know this yourself because it is the reason why you aren't suggesting opening the borders to all non-EU migrants on an unlimited basis.

As I am sure that you might be aware, the idea of the European Union is that the wealthier countries help the poorer countries. This eventually leads to a stronger market for all and will help to equalize opportunities and wealth across nations. A lot of Polish people came to Ireland. But now wages there are becoming competitive so some are moving home and there is less of a draw here.



What the UK wants is to have access to that larger and stronger market but without having to make any sacrifice to build or create it. That is of course natural to selfishly ask for that. It is even more natural for them to be told "no - cop on".





Nobody is suggesting that all doors be opened for everyone globally to have unrestricted access to come in right away. However the EU can relatively easily internally manage and absorb that flow within its own borders. If there are enough ignorant and intolerant people in the UK to have problems with that then let them stay outside the club entirely.

Buck_rodgers

EU is setting up a 500 billion Covid-19 rescue package, it will be paid of by members ,the EU will try every dirty trick to prevent Brexit, they want that UK money, this will only be a eye opener to EU citizens of how corrupt the EU has become, and hasten the beginning of the end

timetogo1

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

EU is setting up a 500 billion Covid-19 rescue package, it will be paid of by members ,the EU will try every dirty trick to prevent Brexit, they want that UK money, this will only be a eye opener to EU citizens of how corrupt the EU has become, and hasten the beginning of the end

You know Brexit has already happened, don't you?
So how can the EU prevent it?

Donald Trump

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

EU is setting up a 500 billion Covid-19 rescue package, it will be paid of by members ,the EU will try every dirty trick to prevent Brexit, they want that UK money, this will only be a eye opener to EU citizens of how corrupt the EU has become, and hasten the beginning of the end

Must have been a bit ****ty for your short position then when EURUSD jumped on the back of the rescue package agreement.



Or what are you long in? Metals or another currency apart from USD maybe?


What rate and maturity are you locked on for? What is your strategy? Just FX forwards or are you writing/buying options as well?

theological

Donald Trump wrote: »

As I am sure that you might be aware, the idea of the European Union is that the wealthier countries help the poorer countries. This eventually leads to a stronger market for all and will help to equalize opportunities and wealth across nations. A lot of Polish people came to Ireland. But now wages there are becoming competitive so some are moving home and there is less of a draw here.


What the UK wants is to have access to that larger and stronger market but without having to make any sacrifice to build or create it. That is of course natural to selfishly ask for that. It is even more natural for them to be told "no - cop on".

Nobody is suggesting that all doors be opened for everyone globally to have unrestricted access to come in right away. However the EU can relatively easily internally manage and absorb that flow within its own borders. If there are enough ignorant and intolerant people in the UK to have problems with that then let them stay outside the club entirely.

I don't know why you are trying to persuade me of the alleged brilliance of the EU. It also has a lot of drawbacks. Freedom of movement is only one policy that is problematic for both sides of the equation.

My reason for mentioning the global situation is to show you that the policy is flawed. If it was universally beneficial you'd be supporting free movement from everywhere.

The UK left the EU in January and hopefully it will finally regain control over this and a number of areas on December 31st.

davedanon

I wonder who this used to be....

davedanon

Donald Trump wrote: »

Must have been a bit ****ty for your short position then when EURUSD jumped on the back of the rescue package agreement.



Or what are you long in? Metals or another currency apart from USD maybe?


What rate and maturity are you locked on for? What is your strategy? Just FX forwards or are you writing/buying options as well?

You'll probably have to wait a bit until Google has been consulted.